Nurses are Not Doctors

Published

An article appeared today in the New York Times as a followup to a bill passed in New York granting nurse practitioners the right to provide primary care without the oversight of a physician. The authors of the bill state "mandatory collaboration with a physician no longer serves a clinical purpose and reduces much-needed access to primary care". The need for more primary care providers is due to the shortage of primary-care physicians, the aging boomer population, and the Affordable Care Act.

Although the president of the American Association of Nurse Practitioners feels that the current "hierarchical, physician-centric structure" is not necessary, many physicians disagree citing that the clinical importance of the physician's expertise is being underestimated and that the cost-effectiveness of nurse practitioners is being over-estimated.

Many physicians also feel that "nurse practitioners are worthy professionals and are absolutely essential to patient care. But they are not doctors."

What are your thoughts on this? Where do nurse practitioners fit into the healthcare hierarchy?

For the complete article go to Nurses are Not Doctors

Specializes in Anesthesia.
And the truth comes out.

so you believe (because of a few studies) that NP = MD/DO but only in practice, not for licensing or malpractice... But you don't want to be physicians... Is anyone else confused?

A few studies....try a few thousand..

Specializes in Anesthesia.
myriad of countries? Can you provide 4 other countries that have APN...

"How many countries have NP/APN roles?

It has been estimated that approximately 70 countries have established NP/APN roles or are exploring the possibility of introducing these roles." ICN-APNETWORK.ORG

International Federation of Nurse Anesthetists: About IFNA... For Nurse Anesthetists:

Europa

Africa

  • Benin, Democratic Republic of Congo, Ethiopia, Ivory Coast, Gabon, Ghana, Morocco, Nigeria, Rwanda, Uganda and Tunisia(Associate member).

America

Asia

I would say that is myriad of countries....

And the truth comes out.

so you believe (because of a few studies) that NP = MD/DO but only in practice, not for licensing or malpractice... But you don't want to be physicians... Is anyone else confused?

MD2B- I don't know why you guys are here arguing your case to people who can't do anything about this- And have no interest in changing anything. It would be like me complaining to my coworkers about bad working conditions. It doesn't fix anything.

It seems like you're blaming the NPs here in this forum. Although I don't agree with everything, if it works after a few decades, then get your own course requirements/residency cut down.

Why aren't physician's parading, lobbying, and educating for your own cause? You have more money and power than any other group- at least in the states. Why don't all of you throw in a couple hundred and do some advertising.

Although I don't agree with the DNP in private practice with no prior RN bedside experience, why wouldn't someone- especially someone unsuspecting, jump in for a piece of the pie?

https://www.ncsbn.org/4213.htm The consensus model for APN education and licensure has been out since 2006 now and it is tentatively scheduled to be fully implemented in all states in 2015.

It is hard to judge if prior nursing experience helps or hurts NPs. To my knowledge there are no studies that show x amount of prior nursing experience help as APN.

I do know that after approximately 5 years of being out of school nurse anesthesia students have been shown to do worse during training and on boards. I suspect that would be similar for any graduate student.

We can all throw out numbers of what we think the minimum required experience should be for entrance into NP school, but without some kind of research to show it should be that. Very few schools or governing bodies are likely to make any changes in the minimum entrance requirements.

I support changing the minimum time for critical care experience for nurse anesthesia students, but since every study that has been done so far shows no positive difference in years of experience prior to NA school entrance requirements are unlikely to change despite numerous anecdotal accounts from CRNAs.

Thanks for the link, and for CRNAs- at least they have SOME bedside experience first.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

I am fascinated by the obsession of the med students with this thread. 705598.gif

I know lots of Doctorate prepared nurses and I also know how they present themselves professionally

.

In other words, you have no data, you have an anecdote. You've proved my point.

Specializes in Anesthesia.
In other words, you have no data, you have an anecdote. You've proved my point.

I guess if your point is you cannot tell the difference from stated opinions which were stated in such a way that the normal reader could tell the difference then yes I have proven your point. Possibly, you mean that you still have not provided any scientific evidence to this discussion then yes I have proven that point too.

I am fascinated by the obsession of the med students with this thread. 705598.gif

WAY back somewhere, I posted that I had gone to that site, read some messages, and decided it was not worthy of a return visit. Seems, though, that since so many of them are HERE, it's much the same :rolleyes:

Specializes in FNP, ONP.
What is tacky about it? If you want to stay in a bubble with people who only share your opinions, then fine... You guys/gals want independent practice right, but it seems like you don't think about consequences that might ensue. What if physicians let you be truly independent where you have your own practice, you carry your own malpractice insurance etc... with no supervision at all--I mean truly independent. Do you think APN would fare that well? I find it disturbing that you guys don't even realize what these nursing organizations are pushing down your throat. Do you even look at some of these NP programs out there and their curricula? Most of them are BOGUS with a bunch of nursing theory classes. Do you really think these online programs should be putting NP in the market? As RN who is about to start a PA program , I find disturbing that some of these NP programs even exist... Until NP programs become standardized, most physicians wont take you seriously. When I was looking to become a NP, I looked at some the programs in my state and said to myself... these people gotta be kidding me with these curricula! And I compared them to some of the PA program and concluded it is dangerous to let NP practice independently..

I think you are very ill informed. I am a doctor. I am not a physician. I do practice completely independently and have since my first day on the job/out of school. I do have my own malpractice policy. My physician colleagues would tell you that I am every bit as expert as they. I am.

Specializes in FNP, ONP.

"it's even more worrisome that some of the views expressed here seem to be NP/DNP=MD."

Well for some of us, it does.

In other words, you have no data, you have an anecdote. You've proved my point.

HotHamWater, whomever you are, you have only lost credibility for your team.

Now, it seems you are only badgering the NPs here that are doing exactly what YOU physicians (or physicians to be) have allowed them to do.

Specializes in Anesthesia, ICU, PCU.
HotHamWater, whomever you are, you have only lost credibility for your team.

Now, it seems you are only badgering the NPs here that are doing exactly what YOU physicians (or physicians to be) have allowed them to do.

HotHamWater isn't a physician. I'm not even sure they're in healthcare. By the way they seem to focus solely on syntax and argument without contributing anything (at all) useful to the discussion

+ Join the Discussion