Nurses Going to Med School

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Apr 20, 2009

To be competitive you will have to take the REAL science classes. Your undergraduate nursing background will not count for much in the eyes of an admission committee.

Don't speak so soon.

It really depends on what you took. The only chem I could take WAS general chemistry - the same one the pre-meds and pre-pharms take - because I tested out of everything else. Suffered through redoxes and a bit of p-chem (because my instructor was a young PhD and a bit twisted:bugeyes:) and strangely designed experiments for two semesters.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Apr 20, 2009

i'm sure it's hard and the sciences majors spend a lot of time studying... but from what i've heard from everyone at my school who has to take organic chemistry as a pre-med... a 70 or 65 percent is an A in that class... whereas say about a 40 is passing. i wish we got those kind of curves in nursing.

I took a year of o-chem because I had this crazy idea I wanted to go to pharmacy school (until I actually worked as a tech and saw how crappy a job it really is - I'd be bored out of my mind). First semester was easy, the second semester almost killed me. I got B+'s in both but barely.

I've also had a semester of physics. BOR-ing (and harder than it needed to be - I suspect at that point my attention span, which is about this _ long, was toast).

And it was infinitely harder than anything I did in nursing school (with the exception of the grad-level stats class I had to take, and that wasn't hard, it just bored the crap out of me).

I know the classes are hard for some - for me it was more of learning a new way of thinking and viewing things. Once I figured that out (and realized a bunch of the stuff they get you to do is like any other college degree - it's busy work, folks, designed to make you think about the subject at hand, force you to use new resources, and potentially drum up new research questions for the faculty :) ) - it got a lot easier.

For me it was more - oh my God I'll never remember all this stuff, and not I don't know how I'll figure this stuff out.

I'm not knocking the difficulty of it - and I know everyone learns differently and at different paces. And by watching and talking to a lot of the interns and med students I see every day - it seems that med school is the same, just at a different level.

I wouldn't do it, because I'm too old (I think - for me anyway). I'll be happy with a DNP.

holleritup · Aug 13, 2009

having considered medical school and having gotten my BSN as well as minors in both biology and chemistry, I can truly say that most, if not all, of my science courses (aside from the ones that were required for the BSN) were more challenging than the nursing courses. the science courses require a whole different thought process whereas the nursing courses are memorizing a lot of information/concepts and applying them. nursing school is challenging in that questions are typically worded in awful ways and there is not too much leniency in how many points one can miss in a given course. medical school is challenging in the vast amount of information a person must retain. Straight memorization, hard work, lots of debt, and with this changing health care environment the superior financial rewards that doctors have had may be nonexistant.

I've wanted to be a doctor since I was a youngster - I chose nursing school because I never thought I would have the patience to become one (I still don't think I do). But if one truly wants to be one, take as much science as possible. Literally, as much science as possible. Biochem & genetics and cell and molec biology are TOUGH courses, even for biology - general or university physics does not come easy for everyone - organic chemistry is like learning a new language. If you have a passion for science and a passion for taking care of people devote yourself to you nursing and science classes and you will be OKAY!

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Aug 13, 2009

To go to med school, you need to do the med school prereqs which are different than the pre-nursing or nursing classes. They are:
A year of general chem w/lab (diff from the 1 semester pre-nursing gen chem)
A year of organic chem a/lab (ditto)
A year of biology w/lab (few nurses have taken this - A&P does not substitute)
A year of physics w/lab (many nursing programs don't require physics, and one semester terminal courses will not suffice)
A year of college math (must include algebra and trig, almost all schools specifically require a semester of calculus, some also require a semester of stats, which most nurses have done)
To be competitive, you should have a science/math index of 3.5 in undergraduate courses (grad courses are not calculated into this), volunteer and/or research work, and strong MCATS.
It's a very rigorous path, and quite different from nursing.

Yeah, you'll still have a lot of schooling to do before you can apply to med school. An easier option* would be to become a nurse practitioner- that will use the classes you've already completed, or PA school, which may or may not have additional requirements on top of classes you took in nursing school.

And yes, med school is really that hard. It's competitive to get in to. Being a well-rounded person is meaningless if you don't have the GPA and MCAT scores. It's an endeavor to take on if you really, really want to do it and are willing to put in the effort you will need to.

*Because this thread seems very touchy about the word "easier" let me be clear that this is because you do not need the additional science classes so it's a more direct path, the length of time to complete is shorter, and even though you are being trained to practice medicine, it's just not at the same intensity of a med school. So it's not easy, just comparitively easy.

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Aug 13, 2009

i'm sure it's hard and the sciences majors spend a lot of time studying... but from what i've heard from everyone at my school who has to take organic chemistry as a pre-med... a 70 or 65 percent is an A in that class... whereas say about a 40 is passing. i wish we got those kind of curves in nursing.

I think that curve right there should illustrate the challenging nature of those classes. To be considered to have an excellent mastery of the subject with knowing 65-70% of the material? That's not making it easy for the students, that's recognizing the massive amount of information they have to get their heads around. That if you know 65-70% of the material, you are in the top percentile of your class.

None of the science prerequisites I took for nursing would have counted towards a major in biology. They *were* simplified versions of the courses biology majors would have taken. They were still challenging (with the exception of Intro Biology which was easier than 9th grade Bio). There are just different requirements for different fields. As nursing students, we're not expected nor do we need to be experts in biology or chemistry. We're expected to be experts in nursing, and that requires a solid, functional knowledge base in biology and chemistry.

ok2bme · Aug 13, 2009

look man, i am not trying to hurt any feelings here, but i am also not trying to feed the op any bs. lookit, most undergraduate programs require a&p i, ii one semester of biology, one to two semesters of chemistry, and microbiology. these are not hard classes. medical schools want something more challenging. i understand that there have been dudes that have gotten in with a carl marx major or even an art major......this is not common. typically someone applying to med school needs a chemistry or biology major. you need chem i, ii, organic i, ii bio i ii, biochemistry, microbiology, physics...etc. most nursing school applicants have not taken these classes.
also, look at the sciences taken in nursing school. undergraduate nursing school pathophysiology and pharmacology are pretty basic compared to what you get into in a higher level of education. classes such as cultural diversity (hippie love class) and nursing theory count for nothing.
i am not pulling this out of my a$*. three of my buddies that i worked with went back to school while working together in open heart recovery to take these slightly more challenging classes. two of us applied to nurse anesthesia school and two of us applied to med school. all of us got in. the med school guys were told on numerous occasions that their interviews were granted because of the post undergraduate classes they had gone back to take and had absolutely nothing to do with their bsn. for slightly less 'anecdotal' information, just take a look at what the typical medical school requires for admission, then look at the characteristics of the average student admitted.
this post mentions nothing of the countless hours of community service, research involvement and other various goodies that will make you competitive. this is something else to consider. i would suggest going to a physican/resident/med student internet board to get more in depth and accurate information from people who are actually taking this route.

to be competitive you will have to take the real science classes. your undergraduate nursing background will not count for much in the eyes of an admission committee.

ew! i come from a family of doctors and no one has such arrogant, smug, condescending perspectives. i guess that is because patronizing is reserved for those with insecurities or inferiority complexes. better you than me! medical schools do not care if one has an undergraduate degree in nursing, cellular biology, or theatre..as long as one's gpa, mcat score, and overall credentials are competitive.

to the op..go for it! in 20 years, do you want to be wondering what if? no! we will eventually all be more disappointed by the things we didn't do, than the things we did do.

Koala33 · Aug 13, 2009

Look man, I am not trying to hurt any feelings here, but I am also not trying to feed the OP any BS. Lookit, most undergraduate programs require A&P I, II one semester of biology, one to two semesters of chemistry, and microbiology. These are not hard classes. Medical schools want something more challenging. I understand that there have been dudes that have gotten in with a Carl Marx major or even an art major......THIS IS NOT COMMON. Typically someone applying to med school needs a chemistry or biology major. You need chem I, II, organic I, II bio I II, biochemistry, microbiology, physics...etc. Most nursing school applicants have NOT taken these classes.
Also, look at the sciences taken in nursing school. Undergraduate nursing school pathophysiology and pharmacology are pretty basic compared to what you get into in a higher level of education. Classes such as cultural diversity (hippie love class) and nursing theory count for NOTHING.
I am not pulling this out of my a$*. Three of my buddies that I worked with went back to school while working together in open heart recovery to take these slightly more challenging classes. Two of us applied to nurse anesthesia school and two of us applied to med school. All of us got in. The med school guys were told on numerous occasions that their interviews were granted because of the post undergraduate classes they had gone back to take and had absolutely nothing to do with their BSN. For slightly less 'anecdotal' information, just take a look at what the typical medical school requires for admission, then look at the characteristics of the average student admitted.
This post mentions nothing of the countless hours of community service, research involvement and other various goodies that will make you competitive. This is something else to consider. I would suggest going to a physican/resident/med student internet board to get more in depth and accurate information from people who are actually taking this route.

I was a pre-med who switched to nursing, not because the pre-med course curriculum was too much for me, but because I realized that the work and lifestyle of nursing suited me more than medicine.

After 3 years at my first undergraduate institution, my school wound send its "nursing students" to another school with a BSN program to complete 2 years of nursing studies to get a nursing degree. These students had to take the same science classes as those students majoring in the "hard sciences" at my school. We didn't have a special Microbiology, General Chemistry, Introductory Biology, etc. I was not in this program - I graduated with a different degree, and am entering an ABSN program in the fall. However, I also took these science classes. Countless students did this year after year, and we all succeeded. It happened all the time at my school. Furthermore, my school was not the only school in the region that fed into this nursing school. That being said, I think that it is preposterous that you would presume that many nurses and/or nursing students not taking pre-med classes means that many nurses and/or nursing students would not doing well enough in said classes for medical school admission.

In addition, not all medical schools require Biochemistry as a pre-requisite. The same goes for Microbiology.

And who says that nurses can't do community service work in addition to working? I volunteered in a clinic while I was pre-med (and continued doing so when I switched to pre-nursing/nursing), and I worked with several nurses who volunteered there for whole days during the week when they were not working at their jobs.

The exposure to healthcare and medicine that one would get as a nurse would be invaluable in applying to medical school. You cannot possibly say that the 150 volunteer hours of changing sheets and giving out juice in an ER as a college undergraduate are more valuable than time working as a nurse on a floor. Obviously, a BSN by itself will not get anybody into medical school, but neither will a B.S. in Biology or Chemistry. Don't completely undermine the value of having a BSN because having the BSN is a part of the whole experience.

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Aug 13, 2009

medical schools do not care if one has an undergraduate degree in nursing, cellular biology, or theatre..as long as one's gpa, mcat score, and overall credentials are competitive.

they do care that you've taken the required premed classes, however.

CuriousMe · Aug 14, 2009

I was a pre-med who switched to nursing, not because the pre-med course curriculum was too much for me, but because I realized that the work and lifestyle of nursing suited me more than medicine.
After 3 years at my first undergraduate institution, my school wound send its "nursing students" to another school with a BSN program to complete 2 years of nursing studies to get a nursing degree. These students had to take the same science classes as those students majoring in the "hard sciences" at my school. We didn't have a special Microbiology, General Chemistry, Introductory Biology, etc. I was not in this program - I graduated with a different degree, and am entering an ABSN program in the fall. However, I also took these science classes. Countless students did this year after year, and we all succeeded. It happened all the time at my school. Furthermore, my school was not the only school in the region that fed into this nursing school. That being said, I think that it is preposterous that you would presume that many nurses and/or nursing students not taking pre-med classes means that many nurses and/or nursing students would not doing well enough in said classes for medical school admission.

It may be that your nursing program required, calculus, a full year of 200 level General Chemistry, a full year of 300 level Organic Chemistry, a full year of 300 level physics and a full year of 200 level biology (as med schools do)......but I don't think that's the norm. Many nursing programs don't require any biology (other than A&P) or chemistry pre-reqs and I know the BSN programs in my area only require Algebra (not even College algebra...just Math 95...the college level classes start at 100) and statistics. My school did require 100 level cell bio and 100 level chemistry for health care practitioners (a one term survey class of Gen Chem, O-che and Bio chem)....some even require a full year of 100 level chemistry (one term Gen Chem, one term O Chem, and one term Bio Chem)...and while it is a year of chemistry....it isn't even close to as in depth as the science major classes.

I'm a nursing major and a chemistry minor, my chemistry classes required more math pre-reqs than my nursing degree will. I don't think that nursing school is easy by any stretch, but when comparing just the coursework in my nursing classes and my science classes.....the nursing coursework isn't as difficult. The hard part in nursing school is the volume of what your asked to do (ie 10+ chapters a week, patient care plans, clinicals hours, research projects, etc) whereas in my science classes there is no other work besides just trying to understand the coursework. So, strictly from an academic standpoint....the science classes are more challenging.

So, yes while it is true that you can have a Bachelors in Advanced Basket Weaving and get into Med School.....that's only true if you've taken the pre-reqs they outline.....and most nursing degrees do not require the majority of those classes.

Peace,

CuriousMe

LVN-RNhopeful · Aug 14, 2009

I'm currently in Nursing school and I have a B.S. in Biology, and I have to say that the upper division science classes I had to take for my degree kicked my butt. That being said, the science classes that are pre-req's for nursing may not be as difficult, but they don't need to be. Pre-nursing students only need to have a basic understanding of certain principles - 2 semesters of upper division O-Chem with lab would be overkill for nursing students (personally I think it was overkill for my Biology degree :wink2:). Nursing classes are challenging in their own way, and require their own degree of critical thinking.

A few people made the point that Biology was not even a pre-req for nursing. That may be true, but A&P is, and I'm pretty sure bio is a pre-req (at least in most places) for A&P.

I think comparing a nursing degree and a medical degree (or pre-med requirements) is like comparing apples and oranges.

if the OP desires to persue Medical school then they should go for it!!

Koala33 · Aug 14, 2009

I don't know that I was clear in my original post... so I'm going to go through this and clarify some things.

It may be that your nursing program required, calculus, a full year of 200 level General Chemistry, a full year of 300 level Organic Chemistry, a full year of 300 level physics and a full year of 200 level biology (as med schools do)......but I don't think that's the norm. Many nursing programs don't require any biology (other than A&P) or chemistry pre-reqs and I know the BSN programs in my area only require Algebra (not even College algebra...just Math 95...the college level classes start at 100) and statistics. My school did require 100 level cell bio and 100 level chemistry for health care practitioners (a one term survey class of Gen Chem, O-che and Bio chem)....some even require a full year of 100 level chemistry (one term Gen Chem, one term O Chem, and one term Bio Chem)...and while it is a year of chemistry....it isn't even close to as in depth as the science major classes.

No, these weren't the requirements at all. I'm not sure what you mean by 200 level and 300 level (my school didn't have them). Organic Chemistry wasn't a requirement for the 3+2 program, Calculus was not a requirement (although it was recommended), and no physics was required. Introductory Biology was required, as was Microbiology. General Chemistry was also required, as were some random general requirements from the school.

I'm a nursing major and a chemistry minor, my chemistry classes required more math pre-reqs than my nursing degree will. I don't think that nursing school is easy by any stretch, but when comparing just the coursework in my nursing classes and my science classes.....the nursing coursework isn't as difficult. The hard part in nursing school is the volume of what your asked to do (ie 10+ chapters a week, patient care plans, clinicals hours, research projects, etc) whereas in my science classes there is no other work besides just trying to understand the coursework. So, strictly from an academic standpoint....the science classes are more challenging.

I admire you for taking on nursing and Chem - good luck!

I understand that having a science major is more difficult than a nursing major. You said it well - the difference between both majors is how each is difficult. But to completely discount nursing and to speak about it like it is so inconsequential in the medical school admissions process is a disservice, in my opinion. Some posters here were making nursing science pre-requisites seem like a walk in the park. The point of my original post was to show that some of us don't have the luxury of taking science classes that are separated from non-sciences majors, and that we share classes with people applying to medical school and people applying for doctorates in Biology. Case-in-point: I didn't have the option of an "allied health" Microbiology class to fulfill my pre-requisite. And boy, was it challenging and it caused me so much stress. I didn't do as well as I would've liked (though I am an overachiever), but I was in a class taught by a microbiologist that was mixed with graduate students and people who were going on straight from undergrad to programs to get their doctorates. But I did it (and I'm not doing this to toot my own horn), and I know that if I could do it that there are so many other smart people on this board that could do the same thing I did.

So, yes while it is true that you can have a Bachelors in Advanced Basket Weaving and get into Med School.....that's only true if you've taken the pre-reqs they outline.....and most nursing degrees do not require the majority of those classes.

:up:

LVN-RNhopeful · Aug 14, 2009

I'm currently in Nursing school and I have a B.S. in Biology, and I have to say that the upper division science classes I had to take for my degree kicked my butt. That being said, the science classes that are pre-req's for nursing may not be as difficult, but they don't need to be. Pre-nursing students only need to have a basic understanding of certain principles - 2 semesters of upper division O-Chem with lab would be overkill for nursing students (personally I think it was overkill for my Biology degree :wink2:). Nursing classes are challenging in their own way, and require their own degree of critical thinking.
A few people made the point that Biology was not even a pre-req for nursing. That may be true, but A&P is, and I'm pretty sure bio is a pre-req (at least in most places) for A&P.
I think comparing a nursing degree and a medical degree (or pre-med requirements) is like comparing apples and oranges.
if the OP desires to persue Medical school then they should go for it!!

and for the record, I did not have to take Micro until I decided to pursue nursing