Ideas for finding clinical sites. - page 3
In August I'm due to start my peds clinical. The catch is, at my school we can't do inpatient or perform the clinical at our place of employment. I am supposed to cold call offices and ask if I can... Read More
Jun 1, '07Quote from Rhfish2Thats no different from MDs, and you dont see MDs having to find their own clinical rotations. The LCME that accredits med schools requires all of them to provide 100% of the students clinical training. If a school fails to do that, they dont get accredited. Its an absolute sin that the same high expectations are not required of NP programs, and it gives weight to the detractors claims that MD programs are superior training to NPs.Nursing is a different breed than many other medical disciplines, as NP's we can be totally autonomous, we may not always like it but its incumbent upon us to forge ahead as nurses and continue the autonomy that we have striven for.
If the NP schools are going to make you find your own clinical placements, then they damn sure better stop charging you tuition for it. Its an absolute fraud to charge somebody $1,000 or $2,000 for a semester in which the school does no work training you and you are on your own fro finding clinical slots.
Jun 1, '07The more I think about this, the angrier I get. Its clear to me now that schools who use this method are engaging in outright fraud. They are charging you guys lots of $$$$ for tuition for no services rendered.
Tell me again why I should pay an NP school thousands of dollars when they dont provide any training?
Jun 5, '07First, I do agree that NP schools should provide preceptors for their students but should also give the option for students to find their own if they happen to know of an NP who will closely match their learning needs and help in their career goals. It is important for a school to be able to provide resources for student learning including a list of NP preceptors and experts for each of the specialty programs the school offers.
However, we really can't compare MD training with NP training in terms of preceptor availability. MD schools operate on an entirely different level - allopathic med schools are affiliated with an academic medical center. Physicians on staff at the medical center who precept med students also have appointments as clinical professors/associate professors in the med school. Not all NP programs have exclusive medical center or clinic affiliations. When an NP student participates in a clinical rotation in a hospital or clinic, all that is required is a written contract between the school and the facility. NP preceptors have no affiliation whatsoever in the NP program unless they are also part of the nursing faculty. In addition, NP preceptors are not paid a salary for precepting students. This is a totally voluntary act, sort of a "giving back" of one's expertise for the benefit of training future NP's (I should know this, I have an NP student to precept this semester ).
Jun 10, '07Quote from platon20Try $5000 per semester....also, we have been told we MUST have a formal contract between the university and the preceptor before we can do clinicals there, can only do clinical hours during the actual term and if we try to arrange our own placements we are not covered liability wise. Rock and a hard place.If the NP schools are going to make you find your own clinical placements, then they damn sure better stop charging you tuition for it. Its an absolute fraud to charge somebody $1,000 or $2,000 for a semester in which the school does no work training you and you are on your own fro finding clinical slots.
Jun 10, '07[font="comic sans ms"]
i have to agree with you on this... we need to do what we can to create a positive learning experience for ourselves. i mean, i know that there is a friend of mine in the fnp program that is having a hard time finding a site. the story with her is that the school was going to set it up for her... and found her someone that can only precept for 8 hrs a week! the expectation is 3 days a week! they found her the 8 hrs/wk and just kinda dumped her after that... i'd be pissed... and i know she is, too! my advice to her was to just go ahead and call around. thats what i have done 3 semesters. i think someone else mentioned it, but you should join the local/area/state nursing associations and network with people there. talk to people you know, talk to your doctor, talk to anyone to get ideas. i ended up just opening up the phone book one day cause there weren't any nps in my given specialty listed online.
you might even go into some of the general nursing discussions here and post a "help! in tx & need a pedi preceptor!" (or wherever your from) and see what kind of response you get.
like david said, if someone has a place to go, sure... go ahead and set it up. if a student has no idea, i think it should be at least partly the school's responsibility to help the student find an appropriate site. with the case of my friend, if they weren't going to completely set her up... they should have told her a long time ago! we are a month into school now!! she still has time to meet the clinical hour requirement, but she's behind most of her classmates...
best of luck!
oh... also, if you call someone and they say "no" ask them if they have any recommendations for who to call! that's how i found mine last semester...
Quote from rhfish2i understand everyones concerns about their schools not getting them a clinical site. but come one, we are being master prepared individuals in a totaly autonomous position. if we can't take the leadership role to find a clinical site and cold call a few people, then how are we going to work independently in practice and make decisions. its not like we are in nursing school anymore!!!!!
Jun 10, '07[font="comic sans ms"]
i think this is an excellent idea! i think an easy way to comprise this would be to put it on the update information sent for renewals, in journals, etc. what a wonderful idea! i'm fortunate in that an instructor of mine is actually president of the texas board of nurse examiners and i know several other influential organization members... this should be done. it would most definitely help students out! i will address this issue...
Quote from beckinbenmy midwifery program located all preceptors and clinical sites for me, but when i was in the pa program (yes, i did both, long story), i had to find my own clinical sites. guess which one i liked better?
honestly, i don't see why or how schools should be able to get away with not providing clinical sites. the acnm has kicked around the idea of having a preceptor directory of willing preceptors for students in programs that do make them find their own clinical sites. i haven't actually seen it yet, but i am updating my information with them, and two of the questions on their information sheet for members were do i currently have a student, and am i willing to have a student. so maybe it is coming. would be an idea for np organizations as well - although i can see those people willing to be listed getting slammed with requests.
i personally have a relationship with a school and if they have a student that can come to where i am, then they know i am willing to have a student. i would strongly prefer to go through the school, as a preceptor, than have a student contact me directly. both for my sake and the student's sake.
Jun 11, '07Just to add a little fuel to the fire, to be licensed in California, a school must follow a long list of criteria most of which are taken right from the NONPF guidelines:
(1484 is the standards).
I will point out this part:
(C) At least 12 semester units or 18 quarter units of the program shall be in clinical practice.
(10) The duration of clinical experience and the setting shall be such that the student will receive intensive experience in performing the diagnostic and treatment procedures essential to the practice for which the student is being prepared.
(11) The program shall have the responsibility for arranging for clinical instruction and supervision for the student.
In theory if you graduate from a program that requires you to find your own clinicals you would not be eligible for licensure. I am not sure how much this is enforced or how this would be enforced. You could report your school but that would be a little self destructive. Its good to know that some states are at least looking at this.
Also if you want to practice in California I would make sure you get more than 500 hours. The way they figure clinical hours is one unit for a semester is 3 hours x16-18 weeks. So 12 units is 16x12x3 or a minimum of 576 hours. This is something they could check to go back to DaisyRN's friends problem. Once again I am not sure if this is enforced.
David Carpenter, PA-CLast edit by core0 on Jun 11, '07
Jun 12, '07Dave- Yes- Excellent. Should you ever need to change "day jobs' you can always be a reporter! (Please take this as a complement).
Jun 12, '07Thanks for all the great tips. I'm going to join the Florida local NP organization this week and see if I can't get some contacts with that.
If any generous FNP's reading this are in south Florida and would be willing to precept me, (in any field) please PM me! I'm a Barry University student...