Nurse Practitioner School

sashyashyRN · Dec 26, 2014

This is a very rude comment. Grades are a direct reflection of someone's effort they put into a class not how smart they are. Most anyone can read a book, memorize it and make an A.

I had a 4.0 my first year of college. Had a full ride scholarship due to grades. November before my third semester was over my husband died in a car accident. I should have dropped my classes but that was the last thing on my mind. I had all As and thought I could finish the semester off. Who knows really what I was thinking my mind was completely clouded. I ended up with Cs and D's. I didn't even make it to 1 of my finals I couldn't stop crying. The following semester trying to make up for what I did I enrolled in 18 hours. I really didn't have much support at this time as we had been living in a small town I wasn't from. Long story short during this period of my life I really struggled to find myself and had a lot of regret of how I was handling things and the mistakes I was making. I was off track for 2 years. Other than those 2 years/ 4 semester... I have never made lower than a B. I have a biology degree and my last 2 years I made As and Bs in all upper level biology classes.

So to say hopefully no one would take me unless I took some pointless classes that wouldn't help me be a better NP is ridiculous. NP school is full of theory, research and leadership classes... I've taken the patho class NP students take when I started working on my masters in biology and made an A. My opinion is that grades aren't not a direct reflection of how good an NP is going to be...

allnurses Guide · Dec 26, 2014

This is a very rude comment. Grades are a direct reflection of someone's effort they put into a class not how smart they are. Most anyone can read a book, memorize it and make an A.
I had a 4.0 my first year of college. Had a full ride scholarship due to grades. November before my third semester was over my husband died in a car accident. I should have dropped my classes but that was the last thing on my mind. I had all As and thought I could finish the semester off. Who knows really what I was thinking my mind was completely clouded. I ended up with Cs and D's. I didn't even make it to 1 of my finals I couldn't stop crying. The following semester trying to make up for what I did I enrolled in 18 hours. I really didn't have much support at this time as we had been living in a small town I wasn't from. Long story short during this period of my life I really struggled to find myself and had a lot of regret of how I was handling things and the mistakes I was making. I was off track for 2 years. Other than those 2 years/ 4 semester... I have never made lower than a B. I have a biology degree and my last 2 years I made As and Bs in all upper level biology classes.

I am sorry you considered my post rude, it's not meant to be personal.

The NP profession is teetering on the edge of disaster due to inferior programs accepting inferior students producing unprepared or underprepared NPs. Undergraduate grades are a product of smarts OR effort. Graduate APN school grades (at least in competent programs) are a matter of smarts AND effort. It sounds like you went through a very difficult time, and in the end, that experience will give you perspective in practice.

I review NP applications for a local NP program. In the short term, if I were reviewing your application (and I wouldn't know your life experience effect on your grades), I would look for the candidate to demonstrate some investment in their future and some improvement (as you state, showing that you are "getting back on track").

So to say hopefully no one would take me unless I took some pointless classes that wouldn't help me be a better NP is ridiculous. NP school is full of theory, research and leadership classes... I've taken the patho class NP students take when I started working on my masters in biology and made an A. My opinion is that grades aren't not a direct reflection of how good an NP is going to be...

Let me give you a few hints here. When applying to graduate school you probably don't want to state that education is "useless" or that the program is "full of fluff".

What exactly do you think is the best direct reflection of your success in graduate school and "how good an NP" you are going to be? This is based off your experience as?

In our admissions process we use a hard cutoff of 3.0 as a GPA for entry. This isn't because of our cold-hearted disdain for the less academic. This is because in the three years prior to implementation of this hard cap, ~75% of the students unable to complete the graduate program had undergraduate GPAs of less than 3.0. This was a hard choice at the time because the board knew they would miss some good students as GPA doesn't tell the whole story. In the end, while we still have about 2-3/60 every year that doesn't successfully complete, it is much improved. We also get several hundred qualifying applications every year for 60 spots.

sashyashyRN · Dec 27, 2014

I understand why there needs to be a cutoff. I work with 2 nurses that have very good GPA's and both have failed a course in NP school. One barely passed last semester. Its unfortunate because both of these nurses had everything a school is looking for. It would be nice if "reputable" schools would allow exceptions for students with lower than a 3.0 gpa. For example allow part time enrollment with a minimum gpa to advance to the next level ect.

In my case it would take nearly 2 years of full time enrollment to get my gpa just to a 3.0 (I have over 200 hours). What 48 hours could I possibly take and maintain a 4.0 that would help me in NP school? Also, I would never write in an essay that education is useless nor would I voice my opinion on such topic. However, I believe taking classes just to bring up your grades is fluff. Especially when the lowest grade I have made in my last 84 hours is a B. What classes would I be taking? I could retake those I made lower grades in such as vertebrate morphology and zoology but would those really help me in NP school? I don't believe so, but I may be wrong. Also, we all know what a nursing salary is.. and to be spending that kind of money and time on school when the classes aren't even for a degree is almost outrageous.

I do have a question though... Does your program just look at gpa or do they actually analyze a transcript? I know students with higher GPA's than mine because they took nursing prereqs part time, didn't have a job and made A's. However, they actually failed nursing classes when going to school full time and in some cases dropped down part time in nursing school. If you compared my transcript to theirs you would see that my grades improved as I go older and that I have always gone to school full time. I feel that I have proved that I can make As and Bs. I made a 4.0 2 semesters in nursing school while these students made Cs but like I said their overall gpa is higher than mine. They also have the minimum 124 hours of college credit and I have 200+ and a biology degree. Just wondering what you look at when you say gpa. If I was going to place a bet on who was going to pass NP school it would be the student with the most recent high grades rather than the student that's grades actually have declined :)

allnurses Guide · Dec 27, 2014

Every program is different. Programs also calculate GPA differently. We use a weighted GPA with core and non-core classes.

We do analyze every application that has a GPA over 3.0. Weighted GPAs less than 3.0 are not considered. Actually the only significant role the GPA number plays in our decision process is the minimum requirement. The rest of the decision is based on the whole candidate package as reviewed by at least 4 members of the committee.

Students also must maintain a weighted >84 point exam/class average to continue in the program.

Sent from my iPhone.

MikeFNPC, MSN · Dec 28, 2014

"The NP profession is teetering on the edge of disaster due to inferior programs accepting inferior students producing unprepared or underprepared NPs. "

Seriously??? A profession will rise or fall based on much more than that.

allnurses Guide · Dec 28, 2014

"The NP profession is teetering on the edge of disaster due to inferior programs accepting inferior students producing unprepared or underprepared NPs. "
Seriously??? A profession will rise or fall based on much more than that.

Mike you been an NP for long?bare you actively involved in professional memberships?

The NP profession is finally making progress on independent practice and appropriate reimbursement based on the extant data demonstrating comparable outcomes between NP and physician providers. What do you think will happen to a decade or more of progress as inferior programs pump out un/underprepared novice NPs? Or the next outcomes study shows inferior outcomes?

Sent from my iPhone.

MikeFNPC, MSN · Dec 28, 2014

How long do I need to be an NP before making comments? Couth Sir, Couth. These forums serve many purposes. However, one should be to encourage, not beat down or make others feel less important. Without submitting my resume, I have well over 20 years of RN experience that should at least grant me an opinion.

I'm not disregarding your point. There may be a connection between certain schools or curriculums and performance. Do you have evidence to support that? Because while appreciating your opinion out of respect for your experience, I would need evidence stronger than anecdotal to agree with you.

allnurses Guide · Dec 28, 2014

How long do I need to be an NP before making comments? Couth Sir, Couth. These forums serve many purposes. However, one should be to encourage, not beat down or make others feel less important. Without submitting my resume, I have well over 20 years of RN experience that should at least grant me an opinion.
I'm not disregarding your point. There may be a connection between certain schools or curriculums and performance. Do you have evidence to support that? Because while appreciating your opinion out of respect for your experience, I would need evidence stronger than anecdotal to agree with you.

My question had nothing to do with beating you (or anyone else) down. You don't need any experience to make comments, however, some experience will give you perspective you don't have right now in your career. I didn't have it when I was new to the role. In the first year or two your emphasis is on developing your own practice rather than the profession as whole.

There are no large studies published on the topic yet, and hopefully is we control our profession, there never will be. My evidence comes from professional experience in the clinical education of NP students. I am sure with some experience you will begin to stumble into some poorly prepared NP students and novice NPs.

Sent from my iPhone.

ICURN7 · Dec 29, 2014

Ugh! Moderator could you please close this thread before it gets really hot? ..:) I think the message has been passed to Sashy. She/he can apply to different schools or decide to take more classes. The choice is totally theirs but the points are well made..

tonet0908 · Dec 29, 2014

My question had nothing to do with beating you (or anyone else) down. You don't need any experience to make comments, however, some experience will give you perspective you don't have right now in your career. I didn't have it when I was new to the role. In the first year or two your emphasis is on developing your own practice rather than the profession as whole.
There are no large studies published on the topic yet, and hopefully is we control our profession, there never will be. My evidence comes from professional experience in the clinical education of NP students. I am sure with some experience you will begin to stumble into some poorly prepared NP students and novice NPs.
Sent from my iPhone.

Well said BostonFNP, you verbalized perfectly everything I had a hard time stating in another forum. Thank you.