I just applied for Manager of the OB department that I currently work as staff nurse in. I've worked in this department for almost 10 years, have a great relationship and good amount of respect from those I work with, as well as the doctors and midwives (several of whom encouraged me to apply); however, I only have an ASN (am considering taking an online BSN course, but am not enrolled, yet) and have no management experience. :uhoh21:
Would you be more inclined to hire me or someone with more education or management experience from the "outside"?
(I have an excellent track record with my hospital R/T dependability, work ethic, etc.)
Just curious what your opinions are!
Mar 27, '07
From the hip, I would hire you. My rationale would be go with a good employee that is known before choosing an unknown. I might, however, strongly encourage you to go after the BSN. There may come a time when you can't get around that issue. Good luck to you, I hope you get the position.
Mar 28, '07
Thank you for the response! I am surprised. I really expected to hear that someone with more education and/or management experience would be the first choice.
Who knows if our DON will feel the same as you, but it's still interesting to hear others' perspectives.
Mar 28, '07
I know from my own experience that I got passed over for jobs when all I had was an ADN. However, the caveat to this was that this hospital was going for Magnet status and that requires that ALL managers have at least a BSN and MSN was actually preferred. THis is what spurred me on to go back to school.
I do wish you luck.
Mar 28, '07
For me, it would depend a lot on the specifics of the situation. For example, if the unit were a "troubled" unit that needed an experienced leader to solve the problems, I would look to hire someone who had that needed experience. Also, sometimes people from the outside are better choices because they aren't already involved in the existing unit politics and they can sometimes be more objective about issues (and people) because they aren't already buddies with them.
If the unit was in good shape and could be handled by a novice -- and the support/mentoring that the novice would need is available -- I would consider a novice manager who was respected by the staff. However, I would offer the position only under the condition that he/she enroll in a BSN completion program, particularly if most of the other department heads in the hospital have at least a Bachelor's Degree.
In short, I would strongly prefer that the position be filled by someone with at least BSN, but under ideal conditions would consider someone with less academic preparation with the stipulation that they get the academic preparation in the near future. If the department were large, I would list the position as "BSN required, MSN prefered." Leadership positions should come with advanced educational requirements.
Mar 28, '07
While I can see the point of wanting someone with higher education, but I'd think that 10 years of work experience where the person has shown themselves able and willing to take on extra and increased responsibilities should weigh at least as much as a bachelor's degree. I agree that it's reasonable to require a non-degreed person to go work on attaining that degree.
Personally, I didn't find my BSN program to prepare me for more administrative work and while it often talked about "leadership" it didn't really give any experience of, or even examples of, leadership, except for a public health rotation where we had to develop and present a community health intervention.
I can see where a bachelor's degree generally indicates a certain well-roundedness. However, any bachelor's degree doesn't cut it for most nurse manager positions. So what exactly is the BSN is supposed to be providing for the nurse besides a piece of paper?
The thing is that there is very little encouragement for nurses to pursue more education. You could go after your BSN just because you want the possibility of more opportunities at some point in the future. However, usually that would mean having to leave whatever facility you're at because there just aren't that many management positions that a floor nurse can move up into with or without a BSN. Meanwhile, the BSN isn't otherwise valued so most people figure it makes more sense to get more overtime than to take on an expensive, time consuming BSN program that they've heard doesn't teach much and won't benefit them in their current position.
Maybe BSN programs ought to have more health administration coursework to more clearly differentiate it from an "RN with a few extra courses thrown in."
Just thoughts. : )
Mar 28, '07
Our nurse manager changed several months back...out of several applicants, including BSNs and one ARNP (all current employees within dept), an ADN with 20 years experience got the job. She does now have to work towards her BSN, but just has to stay enrolled in at least one class/semester. She is hands down the best manager I've ever seen. Saff respect and LIKE her, very approachable, pro-nursing, always fair.
With this transition, also hired 3 new supervisors. All from within dept. -one has BSN, other two ADN, again from a pool of applicants with degrees ranging ADN thru MSN. Years of experience in dept for those hired is 4-8, although some applicants had over 20 years.
I think this reflects that our director was looking for the persons most qualified for leadership and didn't base decisions soley on seniority OR degree.