What would you have said to this CNA - page 14

I was almost done posting this but it went away? Sorry if it comes up twice??? Anyway, I am an RN on a busy day shift med-surg/onc floor. The other day it was crazy. It was about 1400 and I had... Read More

  1. by   lamazeteacher
    Quote from meluhn
    I disagree, the cna is subordinate to the nurse. She should do the tasks that are delegated by the RN, we are coworkers but there is a chain of command. This CNA should have been written up immediately. No one should be yelling at anyone in the workplace. Respect is a 2 way street.
    ABSOLUTELY!

    If we spent a lot of time caucusing like this CNA required, very little of our work would get done!! I also think paying attention to demands such as the CNA made, gives that kind of thing too much attention which could result in repeat behavior of that sort.
  2. by   leenie123
    I had similar experience! I was passing meds, and NA was passing lunch trays, and about to enter a Rm that was isolation, and gowns, masks,etc right out side the door. I stopped her and told her she needed to gown up,etc before going in, and she completely ignored me and went in the Rm anyways! As she came back out of the Rm she told me that I was a B....! I told her It was protocal, and for her own good as well as the pt's. She totally flipped me off and kept on going! I did write her up, and even hand carried the report to the DN office, and was told it would be taken care of! It never was, and she continued to work on!!! A diff time passing meds I was standing at my med cart in hall almost across from the pt's Rm and heard a loud smack, and then the elderly pt yell and say to the Na that she could hurt her ears by hitting her ear like that! I cornered the NA, and she denied the whole thing. I examined the pt's, and saw reddened area on her skin and asked her what happened and she said the NA had hit her real hard on her one ear!!! I did not visually see what had happened, but I wrote the insident up, and hand carried that report to the DN, and she again said she'd take care of it but did nothing, as that NA continued at times to have that pt in her care? Also that next month that very same NA was given the best NA award for the month? Unbelievable!!! The NA's didn't like working under me because I would report them. Even when someone would report stuff to the authorities; it always seemed that the facuility had pre warning they inspectores were coming, as they made sure things were up to snuff, and even had ample staff working those days? Also, I was labled as a trouble maker because I would write them up for insabordination, and bad treatment of a pt! It was what I was told by admin to do if NA didn't follow order & protocal! When I had slipped and fell in a pt's Rm, and had a witness to it, as well as reporting of it all I was denied Comp. By the way; the witness never showed at my comp hearing even though the court had ordered her to do so? I'll always feel that the Corp. had everything to do with that no show? I had enough, and just outright quit in disgust! What all I went thru was unbelievable! There were even pt's family members that would tell me they felt their mother or father were being abused, but we never were able to get real proof any of it! We were more than not always under staffed also, and when the person prev stated that she didn't have time to take a break, go to bathroom,etc....I can totally relate, as where I also had worked the same went on more than not! Any reports of it were just brushed under the rug by admin....It seemed if you c/o the DN made sure you got worse assignments! I even heard one nurse telling another one that if they wanted to have an easier assignments then to try to get assigned to the pt's I had that prev month as I gave good cares? Our assigned pt's were rotated every month. Those same nurses were always the ones that always seemed to have all their work done early, and sitting at the nurse station? I don't want to discourage anyone from the profession, but it is all things in medical work need to be aware of! There are good, and bad nurses, and good and bad NA, and administratioins! I would say today to any new nurses, NA's or student nurses....always CYA, and even keep a documentation book for your own assignment records of the day. You never know when you might need to recall exact info, and events weeks or months later!
  3. by   FranEMTnurse
    Quote from leenie123
    I had similar experience! I was passing meds, and NA was passing lunch trays, and about to enter a Rm that was isolation, and gowns, masks,etc right out side the door. I stopped her and told her she needed to gown up,etc before going in, and she completely ignored me and went in the Rm anyways! As she came back out of the Rm she told me that I was a B....! I told her It was protocal, and for her own good as well as the pt's. She totally flipped me off and kept on going! I did write her up, and even hand carried the report to the DN office, and was told it would be taken care of! It never was, and she continued to work on!!! A diff time passing meds I was standing at my med cart in hall almost across from the pt's Rm and heard a loud smack, and then the elderly pt yell and say to the Na that she could hurt her ears by hitting her ear like that! I cornered the NA, and she denied the whole thing. I examined the pt's, and saw reddened area on her skin and asked her what happened and she said the NA had hit her real hard on her one ear!!! I did not visually see what had happened, but I wrote the insident up, and hand carried that report to the DN, and she again said she'd take care of it but did nothing, as that NA continued at times to have that pt in her care? Also that next month that very same NA was given the best NA award for the month? Unbelievable!!! The NA's didn't like working under me because I would report them. Even when someone would report stuff to the authorities; it always seemed that the facuility had pre warning they inspectores were coming, as they made sure things were up to snuff, and even had ample staff working those days? Also, I was labled as a trouble maker because I would write them up for insabordination, and bad treatment of a pt! It was what I was told by admin to do if NA didn't follow order & protocal! When I had slipped and fell in a pt's Rm, and had a witness to it, as well as reporting of it all I was denied Comp. By the way; the witness never showed at my comp hearing even though the court had ordered her to do so? I'll always feel that the Corp. had everything to do with that no show? I had enough, and just outright quit in disgust! What all I went thru was unbelievable! There were even pt's family members that would tell me they felt their mother or father were being abused, but we never were able to get real proof any of it! We were more than not always under staffed also, and when the person prev stated that she didn't have time to take a break, go to bathroom,etc....I can totally relate, as where I also had worked the same went on more than not! Any reports of it were just brushed under the rug by admin....It seemed if you c/o the DN made sure you got worse assignments! I even heard one nurse telling another one that if they wanted to have an easier assignments then to try to get assigned to the pt's I had that prev month as I gave good cares? Our assigned pt's were rotated every month. Those same nurses were always the ones that always seemed to have all their work done early, and sitting at the nurse station? I don't want to discourage anyone from the profession, but it is all things in medical work need to be aware of! There are good, and bad nurses, and good and bad NA, and administratioins! I would say today to any new nurses, NA's or student nurses....always CYA, and even keep a documentation book for your own assignment records of the day. You never know when you might need to recall exact info, and events weeks or months later!
    How true. When I worked as a nurses aide, we were held accountable to our superiors; whether they be LPN, RNs, etc. I didn't mind it either, because we knew we were a part of the nursing team that did the heaviest part of the patient care. I loved it, and I still love it even though I no longer am able to work as a nurse. Nursing is a very fine profession, and I'm happy it still runs through my veins.
  4. by   meluhn
    Quote from sayitgirl
    Sounds like you have never had this happen to you, when it does your answer will change...

    Had what happen to me? Be asked to do something I didn't want to do when I am already extremely busy, by someone who is over me at work? Actually that happens all the time. Everyone has to answer to someone. That cna needs to get over it.
  5. by   meluhn
    Quote from leenie123
    A diff time passing meds I was standing at my med cart in hall almost across from the pt's Rm and heard a loud smack, and then the elderly pt yell and say to the Na that she could hurt her ears by hitting her ear like that! I cornered the NA, and she denied the whole thing. I examined the pt's, and saw reddened area on her skin and asked her what happened and she said the NA had hit her real hard on her one ear!!! I did not visually see what had happened, but I wrote the insident up, and hand carried that report to the DN, and she again said she'd take care of it but did nothing, as that NA continued at times to have that pt in her care? !
    It is mandatory that you report abuse to the BON. The DON would have gotten in trouble for ignoring an allegation of abuse.
  6. by   sissiesmama
    Quote from lamazeteacher
    She was, (fired) as I read somewhere earlier in this thread........ I think it's interesting to see the agreement with your post, by CNAs as well as others.
    Lamaze - Thank you for your response here. I was so glad to see it. I worked as an RN at an LTAC and left after some serious issues regarding some of the things discussed here.

    I did go back and get rehired (I wasn't fired the first time, just got tired of the bull) and when the CNAs realized I was back, some of the troublemaker types actually made the comment, "See, I taught her how to really work as a nurse." What she said later when I was off, was that she thought it was OK for me as an RN to be passing trays and changing diapers when she was on the phone with her husband. I don't EVER mind helping and usually volunteer even if they are staffed better than the nurses and I'm working with the vent patients, but it just really got to me when she wanted me to DO her work while she was on the phone or out smoking. We did get the problem resolved when she tried it with another RN, but we should all have been able to help each other.

    Anne, RNC
  7. by   lamazeteacher
    Quote from picuman
    Well ....easy write her up. Maybe? just maybe she will think twice next time. times are tough jobs are hard to come by. maybe someone should remind Her of those facts. And you are a terrific example of what we RNs do and donot do. Cheers!
    She was fired, as the post above states.

    Attitudes are formed over time (good and bad), and it takes time to change them. The anger that was demonstrated by the CNA must have occurred other places in her life, and then popped up in this situation. I think she knew that the poster of the incident wouldn't actively get her fired, but - surprise - she did report it, and someone else did the deed!
    Last edit by lamazeteacher on Jun 23, '09 : Reason: addition
  8. by   dhinson45
    Then I would go to the Adm and if still no action I WOULD tell them that it is the law to report to the state. It is the surp responsibility to follow thur and if this is not happening, then I think how many more cases are ignored.? I would and have done, called the state myself This is patient abuse!! suppose it WAS their relative?? Makes no difference, is patient abuse, period.
    Sorry, but I do not see any other way to stop this neglect.
    Dee Texas
  9. by   cjcsoon2bnp
    As a nursing student and a CNA I am appalled by what this CNA said to you. Let me start off by saying that you did nothing wrong! You stepped off the floor for a few minutes (the reason for this is of no consequence) and you left a simple note that asked the CNA to perform a few tasks that are within the scope of her practice and the expectations of her job. The way this person reacted was extremely unprofessional and if she had an issue with you she should have taken you aside and then calmly and professionally stated that she felt what you did wasn't appropriate. To be honest, I actually prefer it when a nurse writes down what he/she would like me to do rather then just run by me in the hallway and mutter a barrage of assignments which I have a tendency to forget if I'm in the middle of something. But back to your situation, what the CNA said and the way she said it was verbally abusive to you and speaking as someone who has had nurses rudely bark orders at me more times then I can count, I know you must be upset. I notice that some of the other posters suggest that you yell at the person or snap back at them and I think that is only going to make more problems then it solves. As a reference for the future if a similar situation arises, I think the conversation should have went something like this...

    CNA: "I'm not your n*****! You can't just leave me notes and expect me to do what you say!"
    RN: "I'm sorry that your upset and if you had come to me and spoken to me professionally then we could have talked about this. But your actions were inappropriate so now I'm going to call the nursing supervisor and later I will be filling out an incident report."

    At that point I would walk to the nearest phone and call the nursing office to speak with a nursing supervisor, who should actually come up to the floor to take statements from both parties. After I was done speaking to the nursing supervisor on the telephone I would fill out an incident report which I would make copies of and submit at least one to my clinical manager and keep one for myself as a record. That reaction is a professional way of dealing with an unprofessional person, it's not argumentative and informs this person that what they did was uncalled for and it will not go undisciplined.

    !Chris
  10. by   cjcsoon2bnp
    Quote from schroeders_piano
    I would have told her "until you have RN behind your name or you transfer floors, you are my ******. I tend to be a little more brazen than most.
    What a perfect way to show an unprofessional, insubordinate CNA how an RN can stoop to her level and be equally unprofessional. I don't care if you have an whole alphabet soup of initials after your name whether they are CNA, RN, NP or MD this post is really about how we treat our coworkers, understanding the description and expectations of our job and remaining professional in the workplace. You might want to "fight fire with fire" but when I see a fire that starts to get out of control I prefer to douse it with a big old bucket of water...

    !Chris
  11. by   sayitgirl
    paying attention to demands such as the CNA made, gives that kind of thing too much attention which could result in repeat behavior of that sort.

    Ignoring the behavior gives a silent answer that it is okay to act like this to the CNA. Silence is not the answer. Remember we teach people how to treat us...
  12. by   leenie123
    Where I worked we were told to always follow chain of command! I wrote the responsible party up and did take and give it to the DON, and was told by her it would be taken care of. Someone did come after awhile and inspect, and go thru charts, etc, but by that time I was hurt in a fall and on disab myself and never did go back to work for them! Prior to my injury though 2 diff family members had approached me about poss questionable injury to their family member, and they had hidden cameras set up in those Rms, but I don't know how that all went. As I said the NA that I wrote up, and reported; that I know of the DON said they questioned her, but she was still working there when I left. Right about that time also my own mother in a nursing home up North died suddenly and I was later told that she had poss been abused and why she had heart attack! Of course there was no proof of it. We were tought in nursing school to look at all pts as if they could be our own parents laying there those beds, and give the best care to them, and I did that. A pt once told me if there was a stairway to heaven that I would be walking up it. I often felt if you can't be humble, and caring all your pts you might want to look elseware for work! Another example of issue was I heard a pt ask who her nurse would be that day, and the NA telling the pt that she was her nurse that day? Seeing as how we all wore white uniforms pretty hard for the pts to know who was what. As I entered the Rm to give that pt her meds, and Tx's, and she wanted to know why I was bringing her meds as so and so told her she would be her nurse? I informed the pt that the other person was the NA that would be tending to other duties for her, but that indeed I was her Nurse that day! I felt that if a NA wants to be a nurse then she needed to go to nursing school, pass her boards, and then she would have a right to say she was a nurse, and not before that! I was told by a nurse that worked there long before I had that the corp had got sued in the past so why they gave NAs the wide birth, and a slap on the wrist. I did what I thought was right to do, but the ball was dropped further up the chain of command. There was big write up in paper couple yrs ago though about several places investigated, and authorities closed some of the places due to abuses, and neglect, etc. I think they got enough reports, and proof that finally something was done about it all! Its a great profession, but you are only as good as the staff you work with; one person can't do it all!
  13. by   Katnip
    Quote from Sade
    . There is NO, not even ONE excuse for not taking a moment to eat a bite, such as a cracker. It awe's me also that I've been attacked for suggesting to eat a cracker... In reality...if you can't find 2 seconds to stuff a couple crackers in your mouth while your checking out your meds, washing your hands, getting a patient water, charting, etc... then you DO have time management ISSUES.
    Nurses (or anyone for that matter) better not be caught eating in a med room, in the hall, or at the nurse's station. Ask your infection control person about that one.

    Nobody is denying your job is hard. Nobody is denying it's not healthy to skip breaks, etc., but you're obviously not a nurse. I always loved it when techs and CNAs complained about how nurses have it so easy and could just use better time management...until they graduated and became nurses and experienced the reality of it. There's a lot more liability on a nurse than on a CNA and the nurse has to do her job as well as make sure CNAs do theirs as well.

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