What would you have said to this CNA - page 10

I was almost done posting this but it went away? Sorry if it comes up twice??? Anyway, I am an RN on a busy day shift med-surg/onc floor. The other day it was crazy. It was about 1400 and I had... Read More

  1. by   WYDiceDancer
    I've worked plenty of places that treat the CNA's like ambulatory chunks of gold and LPN's and RN's like dime a dozen pound mutts. Good luck on getting her out the door permanently. She's toxic and to much time around toxins will REALLY make you sick.
  2. by   withasmilelpn
    Quote from Mrs.NurseAssistant
    I can appeal to both sides if you don't agree then thats unfortunate , this OP / RN needs to practice time management !
    If you think about it honestly, it is easy to go a long time without noticing that you have to go, whether you are at home or at work. Work especially, since you are pulled in so many directions and everything has to be done, nothing is optional. I'm pretty good at meeting my needs, I've been at this a long time, and try to take care of myself. But, there are always times that I might just be absorbed in the work and then all the sudden I realize I really, REALLY have to go.
    Consider this scenario: I have reached that point where I really, REALLY have to go and at that moment in time, my patient decides to have trouble breathing. I am not walking away from that patient until they can breathe again, no matter how much I have to go. Because # 1, I care about my patients, and #2 I am not losing my license. 15, 20 minutes later with my patient stable, I walk in the direction of the bathroom, only to see my very unsteady, confused little, old lady patient has made it half way across the room to the bathroom. No CNA in sight, I dash to help her the rest of the way, and grit my teeth as she relieves herself, starting to feel a little desperate. She who was speedy magee when walking on her own, can barely walk and is unbearably slow returning to bed. (And yes, I did put the call light on, but no one responded.)
    I can hear the pump of the IV next door beeping the entire time I am stuck with my little old lady. It is not supposed to be done yet, so my heart sinks knowing it is probably air. I am right -it takes me 5 minutes to get it up and running properly again, but the patient in the bed next to her says "miss, could you help me a minute?" The minute turns to into 10, as she slowly thinks of one thing after another to do for her. I leave, promising to return soon with fresh icewater that she asked for and a list of her medications that she wants to go over with me.
    As soon as I step out of the room, an irate family member comes towards me demanding I come see her father. The bell she says, has been ringing over a half an hour and nobody has answered it. She says dramatically, "what if he was dying?!" Even though he is not my patient, I apologize for the delay profusely and go see what I can do to help. I am truly sorry about the wait, because I often worry about something happening to my patients when they have to wait for me.
    The father it seems, wants to discuss his food choices, and unhappiness with the meals he had so far. Even though I feel just a little bit angry, I listen politely and as soon as they let me have a word in edgewise, assure them I will page dietary for them. The daughter remarks as I leave that she "hopes that the dietary staff don't take as long as the nursing staff around here do."
    I am 2 feet away from the bathroom door when the missing CNA says, Mrs. So and so is very sweaty and says she doesn't feel good." Mrs. So and so has a heart condition and is a diabetic. My heart sinks as I realize it could be a much longer time before I can pee, because most likely I will need to page the doctor. Doctors do not like to wait for nurses.
    When she is stable - deep breath, the ambulace crew is here to pick up my confused little old lady for transfer to the nursing home she resides at. No, I have not yet completed the transfer sheet. Yes, I can handle the dirty looks they send my way when I choose to FINALLY go to the bathroom and make them wait a little longer. I know they think that I am a disorganized, inefficient nurse right now. I don't care because I know the truth. And the truth is people who aren't nurses often have no idea how busy nurses really are. Not even the other members of the healthcare team. Until they become one of us and walk in our shoes. :wink2:
  3. by   nursemarion
    Quote from captncourageous98
    Wow! You are totally lost! It is not about Christmas cards and being "liked". I to was a CNA, Tech, Nurse. It is about respect I agree, but it is also about leadership! If you have a code and you ask her to do something detrimental to the safety and survival of the patient and she complains and meanders around while the patient is in a crisis... what will you do? I myself do not understand this type of nursing. You went to school to take care of patients and you were taught to lead and not be ledd. Nursing is not a democracy, or a popularity contest. I think there needs to be mutual respect for one another and a pink slip for those who cannot work together as a team.
    That is not leadership, that is a "I'm in charge of you and if you don't like it here's the door" attitude. A leader does not HAVE to boss people around or pull rank. People follow the leader out of respect, which is earned and not forced. If you were a leader you would already know this. Try reading some of Deming's work. And I did say she needed leadership. Nurses who play the same bossy little games as others who are not professional play are also not professional.
  4. by   melkwhyte
    As a CNA I am just appalled by this situation. My biggest concern is this.
    If the CNA in question had such a horrible attitude with you, than turns around and spends the rest of the day making you her punching bag, AND than is bragging about it to the other CNA's, (which by the way I would call contributing to a hostile working environment), what pray tell is she taking with her into the rooms of her patients?????? Her energy is toxic and does not reflect a calm, comforting, sober mind set that enables healing and rest. If I had been within ear shot of her bragging, as her peer, I would most likely have taken it up my chain of command. This CNA was not only insuborniate, she was negligent AND than took joy in stirring the pot. I see it as a power play on her part. If she trys to establish power over her RNs, what kind of power is she trying to establish over the patients? I would hate to see what her home environment is like.
  5. by   coffee4metech
    I am so done with this thread everybody is so defensive this conversation is going no where.
  6. by   RedZeppelinRN
    Quote from withasmilelpn
    If you think about it honestly, it is easy to go a long time without noticing that you have to go, whether you are at home or at work. Work especially, since you are pulled in so many directions and everything has to be done, nothing is optional. I'm pretty good at meeting my needs, I've been at this a long time, and try to take care of myself. But, there are always times that I might just be absorbed in the work and then all the sudden I realize I really, REALLY have to go.
    Consider this scenario: I have reached that point where I really, REALLY have to go and at that moment in time, my patient decides to have trouble breathing. I am not walking away from that patient until they can breathe again, no matter how much I have to go. Because # 1, I care about my patients, and #2 I am not losing my license. 15, 20 minutes later with my patient stable, I walk in the direction of the bathroom, only to see my very unsteady, confused little, old lady patient has made it half way across the room to the bathroom. No CNA in sight, I dash to help her the rest of the way, and grit my teeth as she relieves herself, starting to feel a little desperate. She who was speedy magee when walking on her own, can barely walk and is unbearably slow returning to bed. (And yes, I did put the call light on, but no one responded.)
    I can hear the pump of the IV next door beeping the entire time I am stuck with my little old lady. It is not supposed to be done yet, so my heart sinks knowing it is probably air. I am right -it takes me 5 minutes to get it up and running properly again, but the patient in the bed next to her says "miss, could you help me a minute?" The minute turns to into 10, as she slowly thinks of one thing after another to do for her. I leave, promising to return soon with fresh icewater that she asked for and a list of her medications that she wants to go over with me.
    As soon as I step out of the room, an irate family member comes towards me demanding I come see her father. The bell she says, has been ringing over a half an hour and nobody has answered it. She says dramatically, "what if he was dying?!" Even though he is not my patient, I apologize for the delay profusely and go see what I can do to help. I am truly sorry about the wait, because I often worry about something happening to my patients when they have to wait for me.
    The father it seems, wants to discuss his food choices, and unhappiness with the meals he had so far. Even though I feel just a little bit angry, I listen politely and as soon as they let me have a word in edgewise, assure them I will page dietary for them. The daughter remarks as I leave that she "hopes that the dietary staff don't take as long as the nursing staff around here do."
    I am 2 feet away from the bathroom door when the missing CNA says, Mrs. So and so is very sweaty and says she doesn't feel good." Mrs. So and so has a heart condition and is a diabetic. My heart sinks as I realize it could be a much longer time before I can pee, because most likely I will need to page the doctor. Doctors do not like to wait for nurses.
    When she is stable - deep breath, the ambulace crew is here to pick up my confused little old lady for transfer to the nursing home she resides at. No, I have not yet completed the transfer sheet. Yes, I can handle the dirty looks they send my way when I choose to FINALLY go to the bathroom and make them wait a little longer. I know they think that I am a disorganized, inefficient nurse right now. I don't care because I know the truth. And the truth is people who aren't nurses often have no idea how busy nurses really are. Not even the other members of the healthcare team. Until they become one of us and walk in our shoes. :wink2:
    From one virgo to another:

    Your post, I just loved. WALK a little in our shoes.
  7. by   dhinson45
    Quote from Virgo_RN
    Wow. Unbelievable. This is insubordination, plain and simple. Part of her job is to take direction from you, and writing down a couple of tasks for her to complete is in no way, shape, or form inappropriate. Her response was. I'd either report her behavior to the NM or write her up, whichever is appropriate in your facility.
    agree
    Last edit by dhinson45 on Jun 17, '09 : Reason: in wrong place
  8. by   zofran
    Wow....I didn't expect this thread to get so long! Here is a little update.....then maybe we can all move on.

    The cna that said that to me got fired. I guess there were multiple other issues with her. When they found her sleeping on the job that was the last straw.

    I was suprised that people were kinda hard on me. I do take breaks, that day just sucked. It was hell for both of us....6 really sick busy patients.

    I also do have a backbone and know how to delegate. But, I am the kind of RN that will not spend ten min tracking down a cna just to get water. I was just so shocked by her comment.....it caught me so off gaurd....

    Oh well...I guess she got what she deserved in the end and pts and staff wont have to worry about her anymore.
  9. by   dhinson45
    I had posted a reply but things were already done. I had sd I am veteran nurse of 36 years and would have called her into my office,informed her that I was refering her lic to be revoked (feel this was neglect and abuse )and that she was terminated and I am going to report her neglect/abuse to the authorities. As a supervisor I am responsible for her skills to my/ any patients and do not want any of her skills/behavor to happen again! We ALL have been taken off gard, this will not be the last, just hang in there and appreciate the staff and patients that hug you and tell you, you are appreciated and loved and you are.
  10. by   dotherightthing
    Insubordinate and rude? Yes. I also wonder just what was said to her along with the note passing. It really seems that something may be missing as the response was so, so inappropriate-even for a nut case.

    In my experience, when you get an out-of-the-box response to something seemingly routine-there may be a little something extra going on. You could go back and ask but at this point, you'll never get the real answer. You may have been set up-to be the one who escalates an existing situation.

    And I know I'll get called on the carpet for this next part-when you're working with women, you always have to be careful of being set up. Sadly, you're right to write her up-the chain of command, insubordination, putting a patient at risk, however minor, etc., etc. And she should be careful of the set up as well. It just happens....
  11. by   BabyLady
    I think it's sad that she allowed one patient to go thirsty and another to not take a scheduled temp....all so she could stroke her ego.

    What would I have said to her...nothing.

    I would have reported her.

    That is the foundation of teamwork...you didn't hand off work because you didn't feel like doing it...you weren't feeling well.

    Out of respect for each other....as a responsible adult to another...she should have accepted that you wouldn't have asked her to do anything...unless you needed it...and after all, it is only HER WHOLE JOB!
  12. by   humblecirculator
    I somewhat agree with Saude...not in defense of the CNA, but you as the RN did not delegate to the CNA properly from jump (to her directly -face to face)...

    The CNA's response to you, however, was unprofessional and plainly rude (if even from just a humanistic point of view)...I suggest "killing her with kindness" - this might sound evil, but one should keep their friends close and enemies even closer. I would not put it past a personality such as hers to attempt to 'sabbotage' you in some fashion (I have been a nurse for a while and I have not only witnessed such acts, I have also been a 'victim' to such). I don't particulary subscribe to revenge, however, by keeping your "eye" on her - you can sort of keep her on guard...and of course - you could simply write her up or request that she be written up...
  13. by   catwoman1
    A long time ago, like maybe 31 years, I would have responded the same way you did. However, this is a new day and I am a much more seasoned RN with over 22 years of management experience. This behavior is totally inappropriate and unless you have a union or your HR dept. tells you otherwise, this gal would be on the street without pay for a few days. In this day and age, you don't talk like that and then to continue to brag that she put you in your place. She needs to be put in her place. Progressive discipline, i.e. writing someone up, giving them verbal warnings, etc. usually aren't very effective with people like this. It is obvious she doesn't give a rat's patoot about the patients either. She needs to be dealt with harshly and swiftly and then let's see who is put in their place!

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