Abusive Cna! - page 2
Hi guys. Well, as some of you know, I will be starting nursing school in fall, but for now I am taking pre-req's and am in CNA school every weekend. I love it, and will graduate as a CNA in May.... Read More
Mar 9, '04Joined: Oct '03; Posts: 465; Likes: 12The patient has the right to refuse care from any individual! If the patient is A&O, tell her that she has the right to refuse care from that CNA. If that CNA is continuing to work while investigations are done, paperwork is completed, at least that ONE individual patient does not have to continue being cared for by this person. If the patient is not A&O, determine with your instructor the legalities of informing the family. I have no idea what they would be but in your facility and board jurisdiction but, I think a family would be FAR more likely to sue if the person doing the abusing was allowed to continue caring for their loved one. My family was in a similar situation while my father was ill (he passed away nearly two years ago). Being in nursing school, I knew that we had the right to refuse that individual's care - the general public, unfortunately, does NOT know that they are able to do that with a new worker assigned to them.
Mar 9, '04Occupation: Home Health Patient Education Resource Nurse Specialty: 10 year(s) of experience in Hemodialysis, Home Health ; From: US ; Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 21,359; Likes: 7,204What breaks my heart as much as outright abuse is the abuse of neglect.
One of our new dialysis patient is brought to us from a local nursing home. He is unable to walk and is sent by wheelchair van transport. He arrived in a WC without the leg attachments. He is quite tall, and his legs were strtched out in front of him, making it nearly impossible to maneuver. We had to turn him around and PULL the WC.
We immediately called the NH and requested they provide a WC with "legs" in the future. Three subsequent times, he was sent in this old, delapidated WC with NO legs.
The last time, the transport driver said he was refusing to take the patient like that anymore. The poor little man was half slid OUT of the WC, and it was all the driver could do to keep him from sliding out of the chair entirely.
We have called the NH each time, and STILL nothing ! I shudder to think how these little patients are "cared" for. He arrives unshaven, unkempt, fingernails nasty, clothing that hasn't been laundered... it is all I can do from running up there and wringing some necks !
WHY and HOW is this allowed? My NM said when she callled, they told her it was difficult to keep on top of everything, as there were over 30 patients and only two staff to provide ALL the care. This is criminal, IMHO. :angryfire
Mar 9, '04Joined: Mar '04; Posts: 120; Likes: 24This is elder abuse, and you are required by law to report it. I would report it to your instructor first,who will be able to direct you through the proper channels. Since the CNA was so blatantly inappropriate in front of a student makes me sick to wonder what kind of behavior that this CNA exhibits when there aren't other people in the room. :angryfire Please be a good advocate for this patient, it is a serious problem.
Mar 9, '04Occupation: Home Health Patient Education Resource Nurse Specialty: 10 year(s) of experience in Hemodialysis, Home Health ; From: US ; Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 21,359; Likes: 7,204Quote from my2sonsAbsolutely. Thank You.This is elder abuse, and you are required by law to report it. I would report it to your instructor first,who will be able to direct you through the proper channels. Since the CNA was so blatantly inappropriate in front of a student makes me sick to wonder what kind of behavior that this CNA exhibits when there aren't other people in the room. :angryfire Please be a good advocate for this patient, it is a serious problem.
Mar 9, '04Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 16Unfortunately, because it is hard to find CNA's in at least some areas/markets, facilities will keep "problem people" like this on staff as long as they can. It seems that this is especially true if the person manages to look like they do a decent job overall (primarily in the area of "moving" the residents through their ADL's as efficiently as possible), and they get done on time. In some nursing homes I have seen, it appeared that the CNA's ran the facilities. I can only guess that this relationship between senior nursing staff and the CNA's was allowed to exist because the nursing staff was afraid of losing the CNA's it had, and the RN's and LPN's did not want to work in the CNA role if they were short-staffed. It is a sad situation, and the resident/guest/patient suffers the most - particularly those who cannot speak for themselves.
Mar 9, '04Joined: Oct '03; Posts: 16You have both a legal and a moral duty to file a report to the state Board of Nursing. Call them and they will give you guidance.
Mar 9, '04Occupation: RN/case manager Specialty: 1 year(s) of experience in Geri and adult psych, hospice ; Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 169; Likes: 5Thanks for all your help everyone. After making about fifty calls I finally got a hold of the right person to make a complaint to. It was the state public health board. I really hope that something is done about this soon. I wish I could just go in there, boot that CNA out and take over :chuckle ! Oh well, soon enough. Thanks again guys, and I will keep you posted on this. Oh, by the way, those of you that said I should report this to my instructer, unfortunately, she was well aware of this. At first she said, "well, we are guests here, " like it was none of her buisness :angryfire! Finally though, she did report the behavior to a nurse, and told us that we'd be moving to a different floor from now on. That seems like we are running away from the problem to me. In fact, I think that floor needs us now more than ever. Sad. Louisepug
Mar 9, '04Occupation: nurse aide, skateland Joined: Mar '04; Posts: 11While going to nursing school I work weekends in a nursing home. There are only two aides on 3rd shift and we each have our own hall. I needed assistance with a resident so I walk down the other hall to find the other night aide. What I saw disturbed me, but it was only a split second, and I'm not sure exactly what I saw. What happened is I could hear her as I got closer to the room talking just horrible to this lady (who can't hear). I found her tone of voice and nastyness disturbing, but I'm not even sure what she said. As I got close to the room (door wide open), I saw her roughly putting the ladies legs up on the bed (she allready had her in a sitting position), and then and then harshly rolling the lady to her side (like a sac of potatoes someone in an earlier post described). When I spoke to her she acted very startled and worried I may have saw her be rough. This is an aide that has a good reputation, the staff respects, and she helps people. I am confused to what I saw, and I don't know how to go about reporting something when I'm not sure what she said or what I saw. I would hate to report something if I didn't see right or was wrong about. I have reported abuse once before 3 years ago, but that situation was cut and dry. I was in the room with two aides who closed the door and used horrible language and tormented a man with thier words, and I new exactly what happened. This situation I'm talking about now I just don't know. Do I wait and keep a watch on this person or do I go ahead and talk to someone? Help me put this situation in perspective. :uhoh21:
The other thing I would like to mention is in this facility thier is a different aide who was abusing a resident and all they did was move her to a different hall and said she can't work down that hall anymore. Another disturbing situation (the nurse told me about) was a new male employee got fired from his old job of suspected sexual abuse of a resident. How alarming! If I did see abuse I feel like nothing would be done about it.
Mar 9, '04Occupation: Inpatient acute rehab Joined: Aug '03; Posts: 2,234; Likes: 52Quote from LPN2Be2004DITTO!!!!! Do not allow this to continue any longer. If it is found out that you knew of this and did not report it, that can affect you becoming a CNA, and maybe even a nurse. Remember, being there and not stopping it, makes a person just as guilty, in the eyes of the law, as the person who is actually doing the abusing. Do not let this happen to you!!!You call the state ombudsman. NOW.
Mar 9, '04Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 16[font=Book Antiqua]Quote from graduatemay2004If you are uncertain what you saw, you are not in the best position to make a report against this person at this time. Do you use a notebook when you take report prior to your shift, or to jot patient information to pass on to the nurse during your shift? If you remember the date, time, patient, etc., you can document what you think you saw this time (like a late entry), and then try to watch and document (discreetly) any similar occurrences that you may encounter in the future. I used to use a small spiral notebook to capture information for charting purposes when I worked on the floor. It fit in my labcoat pocket. If you did report the other CNA, and it turned into a legal issue, you wouldn't want your assertions to be framed with statements like, " I am confused to what I saw, I'm not sure what she said or what I saw, I just don't know." An attorney would destroy testimony that was laced with those phrases, and very likely, if the nursing administration where you work were to seriously consider discipline or termination of this individual, they would not consider it when you expressed uncertainty about what you saw or heard - particularly if the other CNA is respected. Just my $0.02 . . .I am confused to what I saw, and I don't know how to go about reporting something when I'm not sure what she said or what I saw. I would hate to report something if I didn't see right or was wrong about. I have reported abuse once before 3 years ago, but that situation was cut and dry. I was in the room with two aides who closed the door and used horrible language and tormented a man with thier words, and I new exactly what happened. This situation I'm talking about now I just don't know
Mar 9, '04Occupation: Utilization Review RN Specialty: 5 year(s) of experience in Psych, Dialysis, Utilization Review ; From: US ; Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 95; Likes: 2God, hearing all of this is so terrifying. I hate to think about all of the elderly abuse that is going on in America. I can only hope we all can make a difference and try to change this. It is so sad.
Oct 11, '04Joined: Jul '04; Posts: 29; Likes: 1Quote from my2sons------------------------------------------------------This is elder abuse, and you are required by law to report it. I would report it to your instructor first,who will be able to direct you through the proper channels. Since the CNA was so blatantly inappropriate in front of a student makes me sick to wonder what kind of behavior that this CNA exhibits when there aren't other people in the room. :angryfire Please be a good advocate for this patient, it is a serious problem.
What I found out is that if you report abuse against a
staff member who is well liked they will cover it up for her
and blame the person reporting.
If the person being turned in is someone they don't like they will obscure any facts
that proove them not guilty and will lie about their attitude
to get rid of them.
They will also deny them the courtesy
of a conference with the DoN when they know there are
distortions in the facts. That way the nurse in question
never has a chance to clear up the, "misunderstanding"
between herself and other staff members.
Oct 11, '04Occupation: SRNA Joined: Aug '04; Posts: 670; Likes: 43My unit had an interesting problem - an RN who was accused by a patient of punching her. The patient is question was a trached ICU patient, with a history of drug addiction and just a foul personality. She really might be one to drive you to drink. She claimed this nurse hit her, and an aide backed this up with "I saw him being rough with her." This nurse was already on the poop list since he took horrible personal care of patients (big priority in ICU), he'd claim he bathed and they still smelled, he had a thing about fat people and didn't mind expressing it. His charting was abominable and in a critical situation, he was a mess - he couldn't act quickly, didn't know what to do, and would yell at anyone who tried to help. All this after receiving a 6-month orientation to ICU, and he worked there another year or so before the incident.
Management fired him that day, with no investigation. This was about eighteen months after we'd unionized, and you can't fire someone like that in a union facility. So he filed a grievance and received his job with back pay, but left after a few months for a position away from bedside nursing.
Did he really hit the patient? He had poor emotional control sometimes, but I genuinely liked him as a person (not as a nurse) and I still can't see him hitting a patient with a closed fist. I could see him yelling at her or being rough. I'm glad he no longer works with us, because he was an abysmal critical care nurse, but I wish we hadn't had to drag his name through the mud to do it. I just don't know who was right or wrong.
Anyway, point being that I've been in one position where a nurse was fired summarily, but it backfired in management's faces. The legalities do force them to keep a lousy employee around until something is proven.