Never placed an IV!!!!!

chevyv, BSN, RN · Jun 15, 2012

It seems to be that learning to think critically is what nursing school is really about. You can learn just about any skill without ever attending nursing school, but you won't get the critical thinking necessary. Even if you're taught venipuncture in school, most of us won't get a chance to get all comfy with the procedure. If you have that much time to spend on every single skill, you must be a student for years and years.

School gives you the knowledge, your job hones your skills. I'm a behavioral health nurse and can assure you the amount of therapuetic interventions I use daily were not taught in school, but I do recall learning the importance of therapeutic communication.

anotherone, BSN, RN · Jun 15, 2012

wow....
totally not your fault, but....what school did you go to?
i would encourage nobody else to go there, ever.

haven't read the whole thread but some hospitals have phlebotomists and iv team for med surg/tele nurses. so there are plenty of 20-30 year veterans at these places who haven't placed an iv in years.

minnymi · Jun 15, 2012

haven't read the whole thread but some hospitals have phlebotomists and iv team for med surg/tele nurses. so there are plenty of 20-30 year veterans at these places who haven't placed an iv in years.

i get that there are phlebotomists and IV teams. that doesn't make it any less shocking to me.

afterall, if a phlebotomist who went through a few weeks of training (or even months) did two sticks and had to get someone else, who would they call? i would THINK a RN would be more skilled, but i've learned tonight that i'm wrong.

besides, if RNs/hospitals have CNA's to help with ADL's, phlebotomists to draw labs, and LPNs to pass meds....pretty soon the RN will become pointless. why pay 5 RNs 20, 30, 40 bucks an hour to care for 20 patients at the cost of 100-200 an hour PLUS the cost of phlebotomists, CNAs, and LPNs when they can pay a couple CNA's minimum wage to cover the floor, a couple of phlebotomists minimum wage to draw labs "as needed" for the entire facility, and one LPN to pass meds? they might throw a RN in there to "supervise" like they do at LTC facilities.

it scares me that more and more of our skills are being passed on to others......and it's looked at as "no big deal" because someone else can do that....

anotherone, BSN, RN · Jun 15, 2012

i get that there are phlebotomists and IV teams. that doesn't make it any less shocking to me.
afterall, if a phlebotomist who went through a few weeks of training (or even months) did two sticks and had to get someone else, who would they call? i would THINK a RN would be more skilled, but i've learned tonight that i'm wrong.
besides, if RNs/hospitals have CNA's to help with ADL's, phlebotomists to draw labs, and LPNs to pass meds....pretty soon the RN will become pointless. why pay 5 RNs 20, 30, 40 bucks an hour to care for 20 patients at the cost of 100-200 an hour PLUS the cost of phlebotomists, CNAs, and LPNs when they can pay a couple CNA's minimum wage to cover the floor, a couple of phlebotomists minimum wage to draw labs "as needed" for the entire facility, and one LPN to pass meds? they might throw a RN in there to "supervise" like they do at LTC facilities.
it scares me that more and more of our skills are being passed on to others......and it's looked at as "no big deal" because someone else can do that....

Yeah they can do that. oh well. i suppose it will happen if it will save a couple of dollars. but the cna's where I work can't even get vital signs correctly let alone alert the trauma surgeon to changes in assessment, identify a gi bleed without a pt throwing up blood or having a bloody/black bm. etc. more like they are paying 3-4 rns to care for 20pts with 1 if any cna where i work.

GA Peach, BS, RN · Jun 15, 2012

Actually,in some places you can get trained as a phlebotomist in 1 week. Supposedly, it's everything you will need to take the test for phlebotomy certification. I worked as a phlebotomist to put myself through Nursing School.

minnymi · Jun 15, 2012

Yeah they can do that. oh well. i suppose it will happen if it will save a couple of dollars. but the cna's where I work can't even get vital signs correctly let alone alert the trauma surgeon to changes in assessment, identify a gi bleed without a pt throwing up blood or having a bloody/black bm. etc. more like they are paying 3-4 rns to care for 20pts with 1 if any cna where i work.

it can happen and probably will happen if RNs don't stop "delegating" and being okay with it.

CNAs can perform CPR so why even have nurses do CPR training? i would hope that if a CNA was doing something wrong or was unsure about ANYTHING then the RN would be the "go to" person. i would hope that if a phlebotomist couldn't draw a lab then the RN would be the "go to" person. instead, you have RNs who have never even checked a blood sugar asking the CNA to do it...not because they're too busy, but because they don't know how!!! that's absolutely terrifying! i've seen it. you have phlebotomists trying to stick a patient twice notifying the RN who stands there pale as a ghost because he/she has never stuck a patient. oh, but come time to debate "knowledge" and "education" they're on top of it.

there's nothing wrong with having people trained to do other tasks such as drawing blood or performing CPR or passing medications...but when it gets to the point that RNs are like, "oh, well, i don't need to know how to draw blood because joe who gets paid 8 bucks an hour can do it," or "i don't need to know how to safely transfer a patient because jane the CNA does THAT," we are giving away our jobs.

they would have to pay 3-4 CNAs minimum wage to do my job...and i can't honestly say that having a 1 CNA: 1 patient ratio wouldn't be more cost effective.

i sure as heck hope it doesn't happen, but it's not so far fetched. who wouldn't love to have 1:1 attention by a CNA who is trained to notify the one RN on staff IF something goes wrong?

PrimaFacie · Jun 15, 2012

Actually,in some places you can get trained as a phlebotomist in 1 week. Supposedly, it's everything you will need to take the test for phlebotomy certification. I worked as a phlebotomist to put myself through Nursing School.

Truly, 1 week?

That is astounding. I know someone who just took a 6 month course for phlebotomy.

They have all sorts of training in anatomy and stuff, and I can not say with any qualification if it was all necessary, but it was certainly comprehensive.

So in comparing that to nursing education, which nurse would you rather have?

The one who had extensive teaching with practical/clinical experience, teaching all the basics.......or the one who had an abbreviated course, and no clue how to do the basics?

Easy to answer.

minnymi · Jun 15, 2012

my program was second degree student.

there was a guy in my program who was a paramedic...which doesn't require a degree, but he had a degree in some field.

there were nurses/nursing instructors with master's degrees who would call on him when they couldn't start an IV.

he was an educated man, but not educated in the field of nursing. he gained all of his experience working as a paramedic. he gained his SKILLS being a paramedic and DOING things.

it's so naive to say that it's not important for nurses to learn skills in school as long as they "learn how to think."

just as it's INSANE to say it's not important for nurses to learn how to draw blood after 2-4 years of educational training (or so it's called) when a person can take a ONE WEEK LONG course and do it.

as i said....a junkie can hit a vein after one night. for a nurse not to be able to do it is embarrassing.

anotherone, BSN, RN · Jun 15, 2012

.
as i said....a junkie can hit a vein after one night. for a nurse not to be able to do it is embarrassing.

lol. they blow them sometimes too!

minnymi · Jun 15, 2012

lol. they blow them sometimes too!

lol....this is true, but at least they don't scrunch their eyebrows when you mention "bevel up!" LOL!

okay, maybe they don't use the word bevel....but they at least know the hole faces up! and they don't forget to pop the touriquet!

i actually had to start an IV on an IV drug user once and she told me exactly where to stick and where not to even bother. in reality, she could've started it herself. i'd be humiliated if i had a junkie point out the flaws in my IV starting abilities, but apparently it's a huge possibility after reading the responses here.

i don't think nurses have to be experts in how to do everything...i'm certainly not, but before i ever considered a career in nursing, i thought of nurses as the ones with the needles....so i would be surprised and nervous to see a nurse looking at IV start kits like foreign objects. sometimes i fumble when we're "testing" new kits or supplies, but the part where i find a vein, select a needle, and get flashback....i've got that down. the rest can be figured out or someone can help you with which piece to connect where.

really....that's what it comes down to here....we're saying that nurses are graduating 2-4 year programs without being able to find a huge vein and stick a needle in it. that's scary.

csadam · Jun 15, 2012

I know nurses that aren't potty trained.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Jun 15, 2012

i went to a great school and went directly into critical care, where all my patients had central and arterial lines. for the better part of twenty years i never had to stick anybody for anything, except the odd arterial stick on a new admit (and boy, that's easy). got all my bloods out of stopcocks.