Need some advice

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Hello everyone,

I'm new here and I come seeking input on a problem.

I have no prior military experience and 7 years of civilian nursing.

I signed my commissioning contract last week and said my oath. I commissioned as a captain, which is what I'd been told all along. Today, my recruiter called and stated that was an error. He wants me to sign all new paperwork with the new rank of O-2, which takes my pay and BAH down significantly. He told me I can advance to captain in a year, but I'm guarded to believe anything he tells me now. It's not so much that the rank changes, but I don't appreciate the deception. This is an error I feel should have been caught long before now.

So my question is what occurs if I respectfully decline to demote myself due to error on their part? Also, in reviewing the papers on a closer level, they all say "reserves", even though I have been speaking with an AD health recruiter. Does that change once I complete COT or is that another "error"?

They cap you off at 3 years now so it doesn't matter how long you've actually been a nurse once you reach a certain point.

I requested a copy of the policy but he has still neglected to send it to me. I also asked him how it's been in effect for so long and his only response was an apology for not knowing about it when he should have.

My options now are to accept the position and wait 12 mos for the promotion or walk away.

I'm disgusted that all this is happening at the 12th hour and find the policy insulting.

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It does seem unfair, and the recruiter should have known and informed you of it. I had a similar issue arise just yesterday. I was just selected for the NTP program, but apparently the NTP selects no longer get a sign on bonus. We can get loan repayment, but I have no loans so I'm not getting anything extra. My recruiter informed me of this yesterday after I asked about my LOA having loan repayment on it but no mention of a sign on bonus...that's something he should have informed me of as soon as he found out. Granted, I'm still just thankful for being selected so I personally do not care about the money. But it's still a shock to expect a bonus and then be told, as I'm signing my LOA, sorry no bonuses...

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Hey camo,

my sign on bonus that i was told about also became ineligible but I had been warned not to rely on that because recruiters are usually FOS when they mention those (I was actually warned that recruiters are just FOS period). So I wasn't too disappointed about it since my monthly income would be what was indicated as an o-3. Of course that has decreased now too. I don't have loans either.

What aggravates me is the policy and how ridiculous it is. How can you clump seasoned nurses that may have 10+ years in with someone who may only have 5 or 6 and think that's totally acceptable?

Congrats on your selection. I'm still deciding if I'm going to move forward with it.

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Thanks, and you have every right to be frustrated with this process. I think it's odd to cap experience at 3 years credit, when as you said there are people with 10 years and more! One theory is they don't want to bring in nurses who are automatically higher rank, because that rank means something in the military that they want us to figure out and learn before just being given the rank. Even though a nurse with 10+ years experience will likely be very competent at their job, the leadership portion and other officer qualities may not necessarily be there, since civilian nurses mainly stick to nursing. Military nurses eventually move away from the bedside to fill more administrative and supervisory roles. Just a theory of course, what do I know!!

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Hey camo,

I totally understand what you mean about respecting a rank before it's awarded and building leadership qualities. With that said, they're going to diminish the average experience of nurses that they hire since more seasoned nurses may not find this offer as appealing. I'm not at all dogging newer nurses, but it just seems silly to group everyone into one tidy category. If they want to start everyone off as an O-2, then they need to change the timeline for advancement. I haven't read the policy (I'm going to nag him again today to send it to me), but I wonder what they do for those that have advanced education. I'd be really angry if I had say 10 years as a BSN nurse, completed an advanced degree, and then had a few years of advanced practice under my belt. At least I only have a few years that won't be counted and not several.

Also, I feel the interview process is so lengthy and the questions so specific, that we have the chance to provide examples of ways we've demonstrated leadership. The skills may not be developed to the point where they want them to be, but we still have to show the capability.

If I had known about this prior to swearing in and signing my paperwork, I probably wouldn't be as frustrated. I'd still think the policy was nonsense, but I wouldn't feel as deceived by my recruiter. I understand he claims it was incompetence and unintentional, but it's still annoying.

This wasn't the only option for me, so I'm going to take the weekend to evaluate whether it's still the shiniest option. I'm going out of town so maybe a little distance and a lot of booze will help me have a fresh and more appreciative perspective on the situation.

Do you know yet when you leave for COT and where you'll be going after that? Where in TN are you from -- is that too personal or a violation of T&C?

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Specializes in Emergency Room.

Being an officer means being a leader. A freshly minted O-3 is not any more "SEASONED" than a O-2 with 4 years under their belt. Remember, you are a military officer FIRST and a nurse SECOND. And to think that your nursing experience somehow puts you above the military experience of those who have been in longer will lead you to a very broad eye opener when joining the ranks. Remember, a salute is an acknowledgement of a higher rank, not respect for one.

Back to the topic at hand: Get the policy in writing, don't sign anything unless you're happy with it.

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An officer is a leader? That hasn't been established quite yet! LOL. I'm sure I'll learn all about that and saluting at COT if I advance on with this.

Military and nursing experience aren't really comparable nor does one elevate above the other. I don't think anyone is denying that a 20 year chief master sergeant is going to have significantly more military experience than a brand new O-3 fresh out of OTS.

Specific to nursing though, experience does matter and nurses with a more varied background aren't going to find it appealing to join the USAF with a policy that basically equates their experience to that of someone with much less.

If you read back through the posts, you'll find that my frustration is less about the rank and more about the specific situation and it's evolution.

I still can't get him to send me the policy. He keeps saying he will, but no joy yet.

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Specializes in Adult Critical Care.

I'll start by saying that I too would be quite upset if my application cycle was smack dab in the middle of a policy change. They certainly could have been more upfront with this info.

Having said that, understand that the military is scaling down and doesn't require the number of personnel that they used to. As demand goes down so does wages. That's essentially what this change reflects.

I imagine they are trying to discourage nurses with 10+ years of experience from applying. Having a nurse with a couple years under their belt is helpful, but there are diminishing returns when you get beyond that in my opinion (once you hit the competent or proficient benner stage). Older nurses have a lot of knowledge, but are also more resistant to changes in policy and tech. Experience isn't 100% positive.

That's the same opinion that the civilian sector holds as well, and is why there is salary compression among staff nurses with a certain amount of experience.

In my opinion, you are still going to come out ahead pay-wise in the military over the long run. You have to take that base pay and add at add 35-50% (to account for housing, food, and possibly cost of living pay which isn't taxed). No staff nurse (and generally no Manager) makes the pay of a Major (O-4) or a Lt Col (O-5) in the civilian world.

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Usafrn my COT date is January 11th. So far all the people going to NTP this year have said they have COT in January. I live near Nashville in TN, been here about 3 years with my husband

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