Need advice on agencies trying to stop me from being IC

Liddle Noodnik · Nov 17, 2003

Call me dumb, what is IC?

Hope it works out to your satisfaction whatever it is! :)

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Nov 17, 2003

If they agreed to the price you wanted then it is not your problem if they aren't getting the profit they wish.

You found the contract and set it up and are filling it- all they do is the paperwork so basically any money they get is pure profit. Bring that to their attention. I would make sure that all future contracts are in writing and very specific so they can't try to renegotiate midstream again.

indie · Nov 17, 2003

I'm not sure if you don't have some terms confused; at least I can't quite make sense of the posting.

An IC is an Independent Contactor - you don't 'do' IC thru an agency. You become, in effect, your own agency. If you don't want to publicize that you are the only RN in 'your agency' then you register as simple business name and DBA (doing business as) thru that e.g. RN4U.

As an independent, you negotiate your own contract. I think you may be saying that you want to be an IC, so that when the agency comes to you saying please work this shift, you can go to your contract and remind them it will be paid at such and such $$ at the end of the week/month/ after you have billed them.

Although I would not recommend that you have a prn type contract. Your contract should guarantee you so many hours per week minimum. Try sba.gov for contracts and business status. I'm with independentrn.com at the National Assoc. for Ind. Nurses. Needs membership to get the detailed support on the forum.

This agency sounds a bit suspect for you to be doing work for them in this way. If they can't staff their cases then they are misrepresenting to clients.

(This misrepresentation and the, clients being a little afraid they will get no nursing ifthey do complain, is a reason why more of us are not IC; many State IC situations require that an agency is not available to meet the client's needs before an IC may be used by the family - actually this is simple to get around by the IC, but it does put off quite a few.)

I believe you need to stop and take stock of what you are trying to achieve instead of being supernurse and not letting anyone down etc. Stop being nice to everyone else and start looking at your needs/protections more. Please.

Search this part of the site for words such as 'contract' 'IC" and I think you'll find quite a lot already posted.

azverte · Nov 17, 2003

In my state there are statutes against nurses working in facilities without a bonafide employee-employer relationship with the employer. This way responsibility for "checking out" the nurse falls on someone. Also, the feds are assured they get their peice because if the nurse fails to send it in, the feds go for the bigger pocket (the facility). It has all happened and I researched this same issue VERY thoroughly here.

Like ALL laws, I found loopholes to squeeze through though.

Hope this helps

nightingale, RN · Nov 17, 2003

There are many ways to accomplish the goal of independence.

Yes, one way is to work through an existing contract with an Agency or have them be the billable agent for the facility. I do just that right now.

Yes, you would make more money (probably) if you work through your own contract, I am sure this can vary.

It does sound like you could get this contract, on your own. It does involve quite a bit of backround knowledge and prep. It is not hard, just more work. I personally would rather work on my own books, have that control, and all the pluses of Entreprenuership then not: but to each his/her own.

Through this forum you will find MANY posts regarding how to get started. Please take the time to read them.

I am a member of National Nurses In Business and get some support from them. Honestly, I use them more for networking etc. My primary business knowledge has come from key people I have networked with when I wrote my business plan; I took it through the local Chamber of Commerce. I took the NXLevel seminar (12 weeks of hard work and solid bonds made with contacts) It does sound like SCORE is worth checking into also for a business plan. I have an Accountant/CPA, business advisor, and am looking at hiring a Friday Person (okay so she is a girl).

I net a lot more now that I have an appropriate business structure. I subcontract and directly contract through various businesses. Do your homework, don't be in a hurry, and it will all serve you well.

Please let us know how we can help you. Again, try the search button with some key words of interest and you will read many helpful posts.

nightingale, RN · Nov 17, 2003

I want to make sure I answered your questions so let me itemize a bit:

Can someone explain how I go about doing IC work through an agency?

If you have not worked for that AGency as an employee, approach them with the concept. It is much better to have yor business structure in place FIRST.

They seem to want you to be an employee with them and not an IC (of course) . I now have 2 places that have contracts through the agency that only want me to work for them and they will go to a different agency if I cant fill the hours.

Uh.. yeah... it is easier for them and less fingers are pointed via IRS. I have heard there are more audits with questionable Vendors, i.e. Nurses who mostly work as an employee with them. But my AGencies do after I approached them; most contracts I have won with Agencies were EASY to write up once the AGency was willing to work with me through a Vendor status.

How do I do an IC through them? the real problem comes in because I have worked at these facilities trough an agency, I cant do IC work throught them unless the facilty is willing to 'buy me'.

I am not sure what you mean.

I have a wierd relationship with this one agency and they are always asking me to get them more contracts,

which of course they only pay me a little bonus and a salary increase. I have went up a whole $6 an hour._ --------And now they are trying to get out of paying me that at times by saying" We dont get much for that contract, Come on help us out!"

OOOOOO no... not that one.... no comment, but I will say I do not work for Agencies who try to manipulate me.

I guess I feel if I can get them contracts, I can go on my own as an IC. I'm just not sure how to approach it through an agency.

What do I need besides my own insurance?

I have 2 places willing to use me, they want me to fill out an application with them though and then use me a prn staffing, well, if I'm IC do I still need to fill out an application for them or do I use a contract approach like agancies do , they are unfamiliar with IC and dont know for sure how to do it?

Do your homework.. find out how to operate a business, become one, and then you will be impowered in the right direction.

tink135 · Nov 17, 2003

Hi,

Thanks for all the posts and sorry for all the typo errors, I get in a hurry and dont recheck!

I guess I should clarify myself here,

Ok, I have taken all the business Fast Trak classes, 12 weeks with the local college, I have been in business for 11 years in the art world. I am an Rn and my husband is also.

I have been working agency to supplement our income, (the art world isnt making it through this economy very well at times and it is nice to have the nursing to fall back on)

Ok, here's the deal, I see what the agencies are charging and can see where there is money to be made! Also I see how nice a nurse could and should have it and want to make that happen!

I was working at a facility prn(not agency) and they wanted me to take on more hours, they were extremely short, so I contacted the agency I work for and asked what they could do if I got them a contract with this place. They said a bonus and an increase in pay, so I did it. With an exclusion, I can work for them through the agency or through my prn status.

Ok, they are really hurting and cant always find help even through agency. I have now quit working anywhere except agency. I found this site , and decided I would like to start an agency, after reading the posts on this site, I decided I cant be an agency, I have all the office equipment and an office, However, I dont want to put my money in for payroll.

SO, I decided I could go to these places and offer them contracts like the agencies do , except I would only be doing this for myself and my husband, and select nurses, to get hours at a decent rate of pay and the place would benefit from getting quaranteed help when agreed upon at a slightly lower rate than an agency.

I have 3 places willing to do this and I have liablitiy insurance.

Im not sure what state org's I have to go through.

Now, is this IC nursing?

a small agency?

or what?

LOL

Thanks

nightingale, RN · Nov 17, 2003

IC is when you contract with a facility or act as a business. Ideally, it would be more cost contained if you contract directly with the facility via business such as a corporation (better then DBA).

Like you mention, the billable can get really tied up with an Agency and I have heard of many thousands of dollars being tied up (depending on your payroll).

If you have other nurses, you would be an Agency. I too am an Agency (of one); this is all legal. If I want to hire more nurses down the road I can.

Hope this helps.

tink135 · Nov 17, 2003

Thanks Nightngale for the reply,

I am a sole proprietorship d/t the taxes and cost of going S Corp.

We thought about going S when we were doing shipments through China, and ended up with the sole instead.

If I can get this off the ground better, I will go S.

RIght now I have 3 facilities wiling to use us, so I guess I am now a VERY small agency, I do have 5 nurses wanting to jump on board though so that is good, the insurance man is supposed to call today to upgrade my policies further.

I have made some 'slick' (LOL) brochures, it helps that I have been doing graphic art work and photography now for the past 5years. I guess I am feeling quite lucky now that all of this is falling in place.!

TY for all the great info on these posts.

Oh, does anyone out there work as an IC through an agency that only deals with IC nurses? I would like to hear feedback about how happy they are to do this.

TY

Have a great day!

NurseBenz · Nov 17, 2003

Maybe I am confused or reading your post wrong but you cannot file s corp without being a corporation or LLC. Sole proprietors cannot claim s corp status.

Also, there are many agencies that will let you work thru them as an IC, maybe you just haven't found them. The advantage to being IC thru an agency is...they get you jobs and a paycheck usually every week, you get a 1099 every January and you do your own taxes and such.

I would say if you have facilities wanting to use you as true IC (1099) status I say go for it but be aware that you will not get that weekly paycheck, after you invoice them it can be up to 90 days before you get paid so make sure you can stretch your dollars. It would not be very professional to just work for a while then leave them hangin' because you are short of money and need to go agency or something.

Don't take this wrong but from your posts it sounds like you need to do some more research before jumping into something and getting more than you bargained for or worse...going bankrupt. Good Luck!

indie · Nov 21, 2003

Nice post, Benz.

If tink and husband are both RNs, I think a PPG (professional practice group) might also be a worthwhile consideration.

The information is all out there for the taking; this forum can only help to point you in good directions. Keep researching and you'll work it out.

Dwell in possibility. Power to us all.