The private insurance corporations have had a heavy hand in producing the dysfunction of our current health care system. Their greed has become so distasteful and so disgusting to us that any sane American wants them out of the system.
Part of our trek toward Single-Payer Universal Health Care for All is confronting these corporations and making it clear to our fellow citizens that private insurers are a drag and an impedance on us. They block us from getting the medical care we need when we need it. They are a middle man that takes billions of dollars out of the system, using the money for immorally high CEO salaries, advertising and dividends, instead of using it to restore health and alleviate suffering.
June 19th is a day of national protest against these corporations. There will be thousands of health activists meeting to speak up and out against their greed.
Free expression is a path to freedom. If you cannot take the heat do not jump into the fire.
In any event the response to my simple request for a proper source was silence. Case closed.
Sorry, kjetski, ad hominem attacks (you said: '250k Americans die each year of alcohol related illness. About the same number die from smoking and cardiac events. Where is your concern for them? Oh that's right, you have an agenda, not an actual cause.') about someone you don't even know are not appropriate.
Your simple request for a proper source was not silence. The source was the Institutes of Medicine. If they are not proper enough for you, nothing can be. Case closed.
Taxes are out of control and need to be reigned in. The taxes to support the NHS are in the area of 15%! That is on top of income taxes, council tax, ect in the UK. Those ***** are sapping the life out of the average working man. I do not want any more of my paycheck being confiscated.
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By the way, when I was individually buying my own insurance from Blue Cross the monthly premium was 10% of my gross income. In addition I was of course also paying federal, state, city and property taxes. About 43% of my gross pay went to taxes and health care---and that's if I didn't need health care. I also had copays and deductibles and had to pay for meds. If I had to go to the doctor a visit was $35. If I had major expenses, my deductible was $5000. I had to go to the doctor they chose for me and the hospital that was in their 'network.' I had little choice in the matter.
And of course, if I had gotten sick and couldn't have worked, I would have not been able to pay my premium (no work, no money) and would have lost coverage.
Sorry, kjetski, ad hominem attacks (you said: '250k Americans die each year of alcohol related illness. About the same number die from smoking and cardiac events. Where is your concern for them? Oh that's right, you have an agenda, not an actual cause.') about someone you don't even know are not appropriate.
Your simple request for a proper source was not silence. The source was the Institutes of Medicine. If they are not proper enough for you, nothing can be. Case closed.
Attack? What attack?
Your concerns/logic are misplaced. I provided an example that is accepted as "general knowledge" and pointed out the tone of your response.
This is a political sub-forum complete with free expression (subject to the limitations of the mods).
Which deaths shall we as a free society worry about first? What action subject to cost analysis shall we take?
As smoking and drinking are HUGE killers lowering these deaths will cost the taxpayer very little. The demand for liquor and smokes is very elastic and people have changed their behaviours slowly.
Caridio deaths? Another 300k (my numbers will be squishy)? Advocating excercise and diet modification costs very little.
Highway deaths? 50k a year? Now we are into higher prevention costs. This is where an insurance company can save a lot of lives. If a region has an unusually high amount of unsafe drivers, raise the rates!
Taxes are out of control and need to be reigned in. The taxes to support the NHS are in the area of 15%! That is on top of income taxes, council tax, ect in the UK. Those ***** are sapping the life out of the average working man. I do not want any more of my paycheck being confiscated.
quote]
By the way, when I was individually buying my own insurance from Blue Cross the monthly premium was 10% of my gross income. In addition I was of course also paying federal, state, city and property taxes. About 43% of my gross pay went to taxes and health care---and that's if I didn't need health care. I also had copays and deductibles and had to pay for meds. If I had to go to the doctor a visit was $35. If I had major expenses, my deductible was $5000. I had to go to the doctor they chose for me and the hospital that was in their 'network.' I had little choice in the matter.
And of course, if I had gotten sick and couldn't have worked, I would have not been able to pay my premium (no work, no money) and would have lost coverage.
15% sounds like a bargain to me.
Have you really looked at the Inland Revenue income tax rates? Are you aware of the hated VAT? On top of the VAT and income taxes there are road taxes, council taxes, death taxes and formely a TV tax! Did you know that The Rt. Hon. Thatcher was binned because of something called a poll tax? Basically a tax on voters with positive vitals:bluecry1:
Fortunately for the UK the economy has been strong due to proper monetary policy. Gordon Brown was Chancellor of the Exchequer until the Rt. Hon. Tony Blair stood down.
Societies cannot tax their way to prosperity. They need to grow their way to prosperity. That means low taxes, low regulation, and most important of all, proper monetary policy.
Universal Healthcare is a public health issue to be sure, and an important one. Costs are spiraling as a result of unlimited demand for a limited service. Allowing market forces to work is the only way to lower the burden on society.
I went to the website and talk about agenda driven! What some of my liberal brethern are proposing will bankrupt the USA. I just roll my eyes sometimes when presented with communist claptrap.
1 An "insured" level of services reflects the current average use of services under Medicaid or private health insurance for those under age 65.
INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE
The data does not reflect the demographics of the uninsured! When presented with faulty data a faulty conclusion shall be reached. In other words the opposition is lying.
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
I went to the website and talk about agenda driven! What some of my liberal brethern are proposing will bankrupt the USA. I just roll my eyes sometimes when presented with communist claptrap.
1 An "insured" level of services reflects the current average use of services under Medicaid or private health insurance for those under age 65.
INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE
The data does not reflect the demographics of the uninsured! When presented with faulty data a faulty conclusion shall be reached. In other words the opposition is lying.
What web site did you go to?
And I' curious about Stanley's question, "What's a kipper?"
I went to the website and talk about agenda driven! What some of my liberal brethern are proposing will bankrupt the USA. I just roll my eyes sometimes when presented with communist claptrap."
What's wrong with having an agenda of working to provide universal access to medically necessary healthcare for all who need it? Medical care should be provided as a public service, like public education, clean water, a wholesome food supply, police and fire protection.
Sometimes, we Americans do the right thing only after having exhausted all other alternatives. As NURSES however, we have a legal and moral imperative, to be patient advocates; to act, as circumstances require, by initiating action to improve health care or to change decisions or activities which are against the interests of patients. Having an insurance company bean counter interfere with, delay, or deny treatments that your doctor or nurse practitioner prescribes or recommends is just such a circumstance that requires our advocacy.
?Communist claptrap? I DON'T THINK SO. As nurses we can't roll our eyes and divert them from patients who are prevented from getting the care they need. ?Liberal brethren? James 2:14: “What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?” When we look at what is happening in America today, where are the works of compassion? Who are we as a nation?
Single-payer, national health plans exist in the other industrialized nations in the world, including Australia, France, UK, Netherlands, and Canada. U.S. health spending per person is twice the average of that in Britain, Canada, France, Germany, and Italy -- countries that support and emphasize primary care and which have better health rankings.
Speaking of bankruptcy, health care costs are bankrupting millions of Americans and their dependents; 75% of them had insurance at the onset of their bankrupting illness or injury! You can hardly pick up a newspaper today without hearing of another investigation and fine being levied against a corrupt insurer.
A single payer health system is fiscally responsible, publicly accountable, compassionate, and transparent. Sickness doesn't know liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat. We're all in this together.
What will fix the mess they've got us in? Single Payer. Privately delivered (you choose your own doctor and hospital), publicly funded health care.
Who do you think pays for publicly funded healthcare? We all do. I am using Tricare now and the premiums are low, but at my last job, I paid almost $200. per pay period. Was I happy? Absolutely not... But with publically funded healthcare I would be surprised if my taxes were not raised by at least that amount. It will certainly impact those who do not have healthcare coverage by choice because they cannot afford the premiums. They would be forced to pay higher taxes. I wish someone could come up with a plan then tell us how much it is going to cost. Might change a lot of people's minds. I am actually a proponent of UHC, but I know the costs will be the same and paying for someone else's healthcare (or even their own) is going to make a lot of people unhappy.
Yes, of course we all would pay for publicly funded healthcare, as we all may for healthcare now. We pay in a vast myriad of ways, many of them hidden and, taken as a whole society, we pay more and get less than virtually any other industrialized country.
Poeple on the right like to focus on taxes and say that your taxes will go up to pay for a single payer, social insurance model. Of course they will. But all of the other many ways you are paying for healthcare now will go away - the co-pays, deductibles and premiums, the fact that virtually every transaction you engage in, a little bit is siphoned off to pay for someone's healthcare. The fact that we all pay in clogged emergency rooms unable to serve real emergencies because they are filled with people who can't find primary care because of lack of coverage. etc.
I just keep coming back to basic facts: The US spends about 16% of our GDP on healthcare. No other industrialized society pays more than about 10%. Their results, measured by any standard one can measure, are no worse than ours and often much better. And no one in any of those other countries has to hold yard sales to pay for their kids cancer treatment. If we pay more for less than anyone else, logic might dictate that we have something to learn from the people who pay less for better results.
Ludlow
109 Posts
Sorry, kjetski, ad hominem attacks (you said: '250k Americans die each year of alcohol related illness. About the same number die from smoking and cardiac events. Where is your concern for them? Oh that's right, you have an agenda, not an actual cause.') about someone you don't even know are not appropriate.
Your simple request for a proper source was not silence. The source was the Institutes of Medicine. If they are not proper enough for you, nothing can be. Case closed.