My 1st Duty Station!!( now what??)

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Aug 29, 2009

You can still be friends with your friend because you knew her before you were commissioned, I just wouldn't hang out with her AND her husband, and I wouldn't go to their house very often if at all because even though he's not in your chain of command, someone could still make a stink about it.

I wouldn't hang out with her in my uniform (why you'd want to do that, I have no earthly idea, but you know there are folks who would).

The main thing is to avoid anything that could be perceived as "improper" - for the military, that is. I was an Air Force cop, and it's a small, small Air Force - so I know I'll run into a whole lot of folks I knew. My three best friends (and the keepers of all secrets carolinapooh!) are actually from my enlisted days - one is an AF E6 who wants to apply for an MTI (military training instructor = drill sergeant/drill instructor) position to assist her in promotion to E7. The only basic training base left for the AF is - you guessed it - Lackland AFB, which is where I'm headed! If she gets the slot, she'll be there when I'm still there. We can hang out, we have to be cool, make it clear we've known each other for the last fourteen years, and just use our heads. My other friend's husband is currently a TI at Lackland and she's an enlisted cop, and my other friend is a Reservist staff sergeant in the UK where HER husband is an E6 on active duty. Lovely.

You just have to ensure you're leaving nothing open to interpretation as is reasonable - and if too much of a stink is made about it (and it's possible but not really likely - though there are people who are actually THAT bored), you may have to find a way to no longer be that close. Sad but true.

hopeful_army_NP · Aug 29, 2009

Well I have also known my bestfriends husband for 10 years, I was in their wedding, I am the godmother to thier son. Shouldn't all of this count for something?

Can they come to my house off post and things will be considered differntly or is it all the same?

Thanks again!

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Aug 29, 2009

No to the off post - because you're still an officer and they're still enlisted, 24-7, and this sort of stuff becomes everyone's business when you're in the military. (And I agree, at some point it gets stupid. You're not in their chain of command, and to me - and to many, I'd dare say - that makes a huge difference. But to some it doesn't. And while that may mean their lives are probably fairly bankrupt and they're just really small insecure people who need a real hobby, it can still make trouble for you.)

The military isn't like a private company, where if you work in Acquisitions you'd probably get by with dating someone in Marketing because you don't work for or even with each other. But technically speaking, since you outrank enlisteds, they sort of do work for you (I'm oversimplyfing it but I can't think of another way to explain it). There are lawful orders that any officer could give any enlisted - I'm not recommending you do that nor am I suggesting that's what's done, but technically it's correct. It's part of the whole "rank" concept and what divides officers from enlisteds.

All of that history you have with this family matters, but it might be construed differently by someone else. You just have to be very, very careful - the best thing to do is just be cool about it and not make a big deal about it. Nine times out of ten, it's handled according to how the people involved handle the situation: if you and they act like it's no big deal, it will probably be viewed the same way. But you could still find yourself being hauled into your commander's or executive officer's office to explain your supposed fraternization one day - even if we all know it's nothing of the sort.

(And I don't know if you're married or not, but as far as I know, dating an enlisted member from any branch of the service is completely forbidden. We used to joke in the AF that you could marry officers but not date them. Sucked when I'd meet someone in town or on a swanky TDY somewhere and we're both out of uniform, and I'd say, what do you do, and the guy goes, oh, I'm an Army helicopter pilot/KC135 pilot/intel officer/C141 navigator/whatever, what do you do? And I'd suddenly have to excuse myself from the bar and skulk off. :stone:imbar And it always seemed to me I'd have so much more in common with the officers - we were the same age - I was in my mid twenties - we'd been to college, we had common interests...dating was a nightmare. Most of my dates were senior enlisteds - E5s, 6s, or 7s, outside of my chain obviously and divorced with kids!)

Legally according to the Army - because it differs a tiny bit from service to service - fraternization covers the following:

Relationships between soldiers of different rank are prohibited if they:

(1) Compromise, or appear to compromise, the integrity of supervisory authority or the chain of command.

(2) Cause actual or perceived partiality or unfairness.

(3) Involve, or appear to involve, the improper use of rank or position for personal gain.

(4) Are, or are perceived to be, exploitative or coercive in nature.

(5) Create an actual or clearly predictable adverse impact on discipline, authority, morale, or the ability of the command to accomplish its mission.

(from usmilitary.about.com, from AR 600-20)

I added the bold type to emphasize it may be about appearances. And they tend to bust the officer harder b/c of the different standard you're held to and the rank you carry.

This is from the same source:

All military personnel share the responsibility for maintaining professional relationships. However, in any relationship between soldiers of different grade or rank the senior member is generally in the best position to terminate or limit the extent of the relationship. Nevertheless, all members may be held accountable for relationships that violate this policy.

Commanders should seek to prevent inappropriate or unprofessional relationships through proper training and leadership by example. Should inappropriate relationships occur, commanders have available a wide range of responses. These responses may include counseling, reprimand, order to cease, reassignment, or adverse action. Potential adverse action may include official reprimand, adverse evaluation report(s), nonjudicial punishment, separation, bar to reenlistment, promotion denial, demotion; and courts martial. Commanders must carefully consider all of the facts and circumstances in reaching a disposition that is warranted, appropriate, and fair.

I swear to you I'm not trying to scaremonger or to break your heart, it's just that you and I will need to always remember that no matter how much we adore our friend, we are now officers first - twenty four hours a day, seven days a week - and we have to keep that in mind all the time. Believe me, if anyone had me pulled up on the carpet with any of these three friends of mine, I'd be livid - but if I received a direct order to stop hanging out with them or risk ruining my career, the Air Force would have to win b/c I have bills to pay and retirement to earn. And they'd understand because they are my friends.

Bottom line - conduct yourself as a professional, think about how things could be perceived, and my guess is you'll be fine. It can depend on your commander, your unit, your coworkers - lots of things - but just always, always be professional about it. Don't give anyone anything to put some spin on. You'll be fine.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Aug 29, 2009

And to others reading this - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't misconstrue anything I'm saying as my being disrespectful of enlisted personnel - I was one, my father was one, my brothers are both retired senior enlisted. The military - all branches - for the most part functions on the backs of its NCOs who couldn't function without their juniors. I plan on absorbing every drop of knowledge the NCOs I work with, command, and manage have to give - and I plan on learning as much as I can from those lower on the chain as well. And my mentors will include senior enlisteds, especially the E8s and E9s, who have forgotten more about the Air Force than this little lowly second lieutenant has ever learned.

jeckrn, BSN, RN · Aug 29, 2009

I agree with pooh, the NCO corp is the back bone of all services and we would not be able to do our job without them. But as she said there is the line between officers and enlisted because of what our job is which is to defend the US and if there is too much closeness the friendship might come in the way or be percieved to be in the way of making the proper decision.

Renee4christ · Aug 29, 2009

hey! congrats to you!!! What were your station choices and what other options were you given?

hopeful_army_NP · Aug 29, 2009

hey! congrats to you!!! What were your station choices and what other options were you given?

My choices were 1. fort jackson, sc 2. fort stewart, ga and 3. fort sam houston, tx. I later decided I did not want TXat all but started thinking i wanted Walter Reed. I was offered my 2nd choice or Fort Lewis, Kansas were I could practice as an Adult NP. My MOS is 66h though since the Army does not have a MOS for Adult NPs only FNPs.

So I accepted my 2nd choice and I am happy as is my family. As noted my best frienD and her family live on post at Ft Stewart and my sister lives in Atlanta, GA so I will be closer to her as well.

The LT COL I talked with said they will see if Ft Stewart has a place that they can use me as an ANP, if not I will work as a med-surg RN. I will need to be refreshed on being a RN since I have been practicing as an ANP for 4.5 years now.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Aug 29, 2009

I would have gone with Georgia, too! Good choice. KS is fine I'm sure but I did four years in Oklahoma...too flat!

Stinks that they don't have ANPs - maybe you could get the Army to pay for a postgrad certificate for an FNP? I'd guess you'd only have the kid and teenage classes; I think Duke has a postgrad FNP cert that allows you to sit the exam.

hopeful_army_NP · Aug 30, 2009

I would have gone with Georgia, too! Good choice. KS is fine I'm sure but I did four years in Oklahoma...too flat!
Stinks that they don't have ANPs - maybe you could get the Army to pay for a postgrad certificate for an FNP? I'd guess you'd only have the kid and teenage classes; I think Duke has a postgrad FNP cert that allows you to sit the exam.

I agree. I was hoping to possibly pursue my DNP if the Army had a need. but now I will think along the lines of getting my FNP first. I currently can treat ages 13 and up. I will have to do course work and clinical hours for the pediatric portion and prepeare to complete the whole certification process again-does not sound like fun! I would have origianlly got the FNP but the school I went to-also where I did my undergrad- and where I got the most tuition reiumbursement from the major health sytem I worked for- DIDN'T offer it- hind site is 20/20.

So anyway, all things will work out. I will look into the Duke program though.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Aug 30, 2009

As far as I know, it's possible to do it completely online and of course the Army would pay for it. There are others out there if Duke's not your bag; I only know about it because it's my alma mater and where I'll probably end back up for my master's.