This particular RN (I'll name him Jon) has been working for our unit for two years. We work in a MedSurg unit at a county hospital. Apparently, we DONT do drug tests at all.
Our morning was going fine, we both took report in the same area and had our breaks at the same time. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary (aside from saying "I'm sleepy/tired," but we all say it). Jon did one discharge and completed one admit. He helped me start an IV for one of my patients and cosigned my insulin.
It wasn't until lunch I noticed Jon's phone Snapchat(?) of him consuming edibles. I also saw Jon's text messages saying "he was still high this morning."
I immediately went to the charge nurse and reported my discovery. Our charge nurse was in disbelief and found it difficult to believe. We confronted Jon and he denied everything.
Our charge nurse discreetly followed up on his patients, and they reported nothing but excellent nursing care. We checked his charting and everything was within policy. We also checked all his pyxis pulls and there were no discrepancies. Lastly, we privately spoke to an MD that Jon was speaking to in the morning who also reported that his behavior was completely normal.
I apologized to Jon as there were no evidence of him being high towards the end of the shift. As we were leaving the hospital, one of Jon's friends (from another unit), came up to him and ask him about his 4/20. I saw Jon winked and nodded. I got upset and just left.
The next day, I reported it to the charge. She said to leave it alone since there wasn't any proof and no patients were harmed. I am not sure what else to do at this point.
You are not even a nurse yet so you can't possibly understand the nuances of this situation to even be qualified to reply accurately. Sorry, but you have no idea what patient care compromise is, and what it is not, yet.
I don't know if it's a "not a nurse" thing as much as a misunderstanding of the proper way to handle these things in any job setting! I'm not a nurse yet (studying for my NCLEX) but other life experiences have given me insight into how to handle these situations.. Although I do know what you mean
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
I was replying to a nurse who made it seem like when something like this happens, They just cover it up among themselves "...., you do NOT make accusations like this...not unless they're falling down drunk and slurring their words. And even then you may say something like "I don't think Jon is feeling very well. Can we get some help?". You don't have to bring up drugs or alcohol at all...that's your manager's call. You will learn once you're a nurse how tightly knit the nursing community is in a particular area."
I never said that he was in fact HIGH. I said even though "Jon" seemed fine that day, what happens when he isn't. Or anyone else for that matter.
I love the nursing career and what we can do to help someone. Let's hope that none of us have to ever experience a situation like that.
First of all no one acted like we just cover this up amongst ourselves. But it really doesn't matter what you were replying too. What matters is what your post said.
"That's horrible. So pretty much everyone covers for each other when they are not in the right state of mind? Even though "Jon" seemed fine that day, what about the day he isn't? Then what?
Don't come to work high on any substance period! Then you won't have to worry about losing your job/career."
As far as your last statement, you have a lot to learn. There are many nurses that have lost their job/career based off over zealous people that made assumptions and accusations. Their stories are within this forum. It happens far more frequently than you think. In fact there is a story in this very thread. The OP had NO indication the nurse was high. The Nurse did not display any behaviors he was high. The nurse didn't like what she saw on his social media and on his phone and didn't like how he joked with a co-workers and that prompted everything. As I said, go put in all the work for you license, all the blood sweat and tears involved, then come talk to me.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
I don't know if it's a "not a nurse" thing as much as a misunderstanding of the proper way to handle these things in any job setting! I'm not a nurse yet (studying for my NCLEX) but other life experiences have given me insight into how to handle these situations.. Although I do know what you mean
The poster stated they haven't even started nursing school, you have at least gone through nursing school, done clinicals, worked (as a student) in a nursing role for a few years. And hopefully very soon can call yourself a nurse. Gives a little more insight into what's on the line then someone who has yet to even BEGIN the process.
Also gives you insight that there are numerous things that can mimic signs/symptoms of being "high" when you're not. Which backs up the other poster talking about not focusing on "They must be using drugs" or "I think he's high" and more so just sticking to reporting the behavior itself.
Nurses oftentimes (at least in the ER as I can't speak for other areas) will not have time to eat for very long periods of times. Low blood sugar almost exactly mimics the signs and symptoms of opiates. Which is why when you report you keep your own judgments and opinions out of it and simply stick to reporting the facts you saw. "Jon was slurring his words and diaphoretic" instead of "Jon has to be high, he is slurring and sweating, sure seems suspicious"
Both reports include the facts, but one report also includes the nurses own judgments and opinions and the outcome of those can be dramatically different just based on that.
That said, I think part of it has nothing to do with nursing and more to do with common sense. The comment made about reporting someone because WHAT IF one day they are high, I think most people with common sense would know how absurd that is regardless if they are a nurse or not.
First of all no one acted like we just cover this up amongst ourselves. But it really doesn't matter what you were replying too. What matters is what your post said.
As far as your last statement, you have a lot to learn. There are many nurses that have lost their job/career based off over zealous people that made assumptions and accusations. Their stories are within this forum. It happens far more frequently than you think. In fact there is a story in this very thread. The OP had NO indication the nurse was high. The Nurse did not display any behaviors he was high. The nurse didn't like what she saw on his social media and on his phone and didn't like how he joked with a co-workers and that prompted everything. As I said, go put in all the work for you license, all the blood sweat and tears involved, then come talk to me.
I'm just saying what was said on the original post. The person in-charge said the everything was good and to leave it at that. My thing is that it should not be an issue for someone to say something. Maybe not say that it is drug or alcohol related but just bring it up that she's concerned about him. That's it.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I'm just saying what was said on the original post. The person in-charge said the everything was good and to leave it at that. My thing is that it should not be an issue for someone to say something. Maybe not say that it is drug or alcohol related but just bring it up that she's concerned about him. That's it.
I can't see anyplace where anyone said it should never be reported. The issue at hand is the OP went after this nurse like she was on a mission. HER mission was accomplished by reporting what she SAW and KNEW, and that was where her responsibility and authority ended. Right there. No further. She is not a cop nor is she a manager, administrator , hospital pharmacist, or human resources. She is not a representative of the Board of Nursing (who by the way would be required to investigate if they are notified of anything amiss). She was way out of line. Report, yes. Then the next thing to do is shut one's mouth and let the process of investigation remain where it belongs, with those whose job is take it further as evidence and their investigation indicate.
Again, the OP is long gone so I suppose I am beating a dead horse here. But I really hate to see someone's career, and very life destroyed by a busybody coworker whose motive is questionable at best. Addiction is a huge problem in nursing and for the public at large. Rough estimates are that 10-12 % of nurses have a substance addiction problem. So----Continuing education is needed so we can recognize the TRUE signs of substance abuse, and possibly save a life (or lives). Beyond that, we don't have the authority or need to pursue the case. That is left to the above mentioned.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
I'm just saying what was said on the original post. The person in-charge said the everything was good and to leave it at that. My thing is that it should not be an issue for someone to say something. Maybe not say that it is drug or alcohol related but just bring it up that she's concerned about him. That's it.
Except that's NOT what you said. You made some pretty ignorant statements and I called you on them. Just own it. You also seem to still be completely missing the point. Best of luck to you, you have a lot to learn.
The poster stated they haven't even started nursing school, you have at least gone through nursing school, done clinicals, worked (as a student) in a nursing role for a few years. And hopefully very soon can call yourself a nurse. Gives a little more insight into what's on the line then someone who has yet to even BEGIN the process.
Also gives you insight that there are numerous things that can mimic signs/symptoms of being "high" when you're not. Which backs up the other poster talking about not focusing on "They must be using drugs" or "I think he's high" and more so just sticking to reporting the behavior itself.
Nurses oftentimes (at least in the ER as I can't speak for other areas) will not have time to eat for very long periods of times. Low blood sugar almost exactly mimics the signs and symptoms of opiates. Which is why when you report you keep your own judgments and opinions out of it and simply stick to reporting the facts you saw. "Jon was slurring his words and diaphoretic" instead of "Jon has to be high, he is slurring and sweating, sure seems suspicious"
Both reports include the facts, but one report also includes the nurses own judgments and opinions and the outcome of those can be dramatically different just based on that.
That said, I think part of it has nothing to do with nursing and more to do with common sense. The comment made about reporting someone because WHAT IF one day they are high, I think most people with common sense would know how absurd that is regardless if they are a nurse or not.
Please don't misunderstand me, I agree with you and the person I was replying to completely! I was just more like "heyyyyyy I'm not a nurse yet either!"
I was making it about me, when it's not about me at all :) :) it was more lighthearted, if anything.
I can't see anyplace where anyone said it should never be reported. The issue at hand is the OP went after this nurse like she was on a mission. HER mission was accomplished by reporting what she SAW and KNEW, and that was where her responsibility and authority ended. Right there. No further. She is not a cop nor is she a manager, administrator , hospital pharmacist, or human resources. She is not a representative of the Board of Nursing (who by the way would be required to investigate if they are notified of anything amiss). She was way out of line. Report, yes. Then the next thing to do is shut one's mouth and let the process of investigation remain where it belongs, with those whose job is take it further as evidence and their investigation indicate.
Again, the OP is long gone so I suppose I am beating a dead horse here. But I really hate to see someone's career, and very life destroyed by a busybody coworker whose motive is questionable at best. Addiction is a huge problem in nursing and for the public at large. Rough estimates are that 10-12 % of nurses have a substance addiction problem. So----Continuing education is needed so we can recognize the TRUE signs of substance abuse, and possibly save a life (or lives). Beyond that, we don't have the authority or need to pursue the case. That is left to the above mentioned.
I agree with the "she is not a cop nor is she a manager, administrator... etc" part so much. Where I currently work, if someone did something like that they could get in trouble for workplace harassment. I believe it's actually happened before. Someone zeroed in on a coworker (they had the same job description and at the same "level" so to speak so this person had no business doing this) and this person made it their job to single out and carefully watch this one person. Ultimately, the individual that was trying to get the second person in trouble was the one who was pulled into HR. It happened a long time ago though, and I don't know many details.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
Please don't misunderstand me, I agree with you and the person I was replying to completely! I was just more like "heyyyyyy I'm not a nurse yet either!"
I was making it about me, when it's not about me at all :) :) it was more lighthearted, if anything.
Oh I know, I just kind of got going and once I do there is no stopping me. I didn't take your post wrong, as someone that did finish school though you do have more insight then that poster does. I was just trying to avoid multiple posts to address multiple issues.
Unless you witness something blatantly wrong with his rendering of patient care, probably you should just tend to your own business. He probably now sees you as an enemy and might decide to make things somewhat difficult for you in return. So, be wary of him on the personal front.
I second this. OP did not use a great deal of common sense in this case. Unless I have definite proof that someone is compromising patient care, I say nothing. I prefer to keep my nose out of other people's business otherwise. And believe me, I have zero tolerance for poor patient care and lack of patient safety.
That's horrible. So pretty much everyone covers for each other when they are not in the right state of mind? Even though "Jon" seemed fine that day, what about the day he isn't? Then what?
Don't come to work high on any substance period! Then you won't have to worry about losing your job/career.
Do that on your own time, not the patients time.
You know, you sound like you're young and lack quite a bit of life experience and common sense. You don't go making accusations without definite proof that someone is compromising patient care, acting recklessly, diverting, etc. You can easily ruin an innocent person's career this way, and I assure you the majority of your coworkers will resent you keep you on their radar.
Also, I want to go ahead and give you a piece of advice since you are not even an RN yet. Don't you ever think you are better than others or high and mighty because you have a nursing degree. Us nurses, we do it all. We're nurses, CNAs, lift team, social workers, custodians, a jack of all trades. Don't you EVER think you are better than your peers.
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HermioneG, BSN, RN
1 Article; 168 Posts
I don't know if it's a "not a nurse" thing as much as a misunderstanding of the proper way to handle these things in any job setting! I'm not a nurse yet (studying for my NCLEX) but other life experiences have given me insight into how to handle these situations.. Although I do know what you mean