Recently we had a couple move to our city from another state. From my understanding they both had "decent" jobs, house, good medical insurance, etc. They underwent fertility treatment in their previous city and became pregnant with quads. They decided to move here to be closer to family. She was 22 weeks pregnant. They came to the hospital and took a tour. Someone contacted the media about their "plight" and there was an ask for help from the community for diapers, clothing, formula, money, etc. They appeared on the news and their story told. The babies delivered early.
Please don't misunderstand me. I am all about helping those in need. What I am struggling with is the fact that these people PURPOSELY abandoned their financial security and health insurance to ask for hand outs and money? From my understanding neither is working now and the nurses say that the mother constantly hints at "how I am going to manage with no job and money?" She has even hinted to needing a bigger car and wishes someone would donate a van???!!!! Obviously WIC will supply formula and the taxpayers will pick up the ENORMOUS hospital tab.
If you can't afford to bring 3,4,5,6+ children into the world at one time wouldn't you know this ahead of time? Why would you exploit your children to obtain financial gain?
That show JON AND KATE PLUS 8 REALLY MAKES ME CRINGE...that is another topic for another post!
I agree with both sides of the Jon and Kate discussion. However, I have one question. Why do they not have a relationship with their own parents? I heard it mentioned that their families are not in their lives at all except for his grandmother. What's up with that?
It's also entirely possible that both are only children whose parents are deceased. I could, of course, be very mistaken.
Wow! I'm so surprised at the level of discourse about this topic. It seems like some myths about families with multiples are as commonly held among the nursing profession as in the general population.
First, families have all kinds of reasons that they need to move home. How many of you who work prenatal ask your patients expecting multiples if they have family support at home? As a profession, we stress the need for social support over and over, and yet some of this discussion suggests that we aren't willing to commend a family that finds that support.
There are few jobs, no matter how stable, that can provide enough money to raise multiples *and* to hire legal, experienced, live-out help. (Because where will you find the space in your house for the babies and a live-in?) For some people, moving closer to family becomes a necessity.
Expressing concern about loss of job and money are common parts of the prenatal and postpartum experience of many families, are they not? For mothers of triplets and more, the difficulty of finding (let alone paying for) child care can make it even less likely that they'll return to their career. (It is almost impossible to find a high-quality day care with simultaneous openings for three or more babies, and the RSV risk of group day care means that family or in-home situations are preferred. This is why moving closer to family can be a huge economic boon -- it allows two parents to work if the grandparents can provide child care.) Loss of job means not only loss of money, but often can mean loss of social support and other nontangible benefits of working.
Regarding the bigger car: in our state, children are required to be in car seats until they are seven years old. What size car do you need to hold three car seats? Four car seats? Believe it or not, you can't get three car seats buckled in across one seat of an Expedition!
Many people in the community assume that families with multiples get all kinds of free things from the government, from manufacturers, and from their communities. Other community members assume that every family with multiples wants financial help, or armies of volunteers coming in with the babies.
But families with multiples are a random bunch of families, comprising stable couples, couples on the verge of divorce, couples with more money than brains, couples who conceived accidentally, couples who pursued fertility treatment ranging from Clomid (with a very low chance of triplets) to unsupervised injections off the black market.
When you meet a family with multiples, I hope you'll remember that their situations, personalities, ethics, and hopes are as varied as any of your other patients. Please don't make assumptions about their motivations, but instead have a two-way conversation about their choices.
Patti, family nurse practitioner
PS: While not nursing related, I'd also like to mention that the reality shows on TV are heavily edited. They are as "realistic" as professional wrestling! I think it's important not to confuse the images I see on TV with the day-to-day reality of the lives of those families. Any of you who has ever been on television or quoted in any media can attest to the way that meanings can be changed just by leaving out bits and pieces.
Without being in the families position it's hard to say what I would do. If I had to relocate though to get help I would hope/plan for dh to get a job in that general area. I have never expected a hand out for anything but would certainly accept help if in the situation. I think MANY people that I take care of feel entitled to "things" because they have ONE baby I'm sure that with multiples they feel even more so entitled. For example we had a patient not too long ago that was upset because she could not get an appt with WIC until her baby was 3 weeks old and therefore had no formula. Well I really didn't feel bad for her because first of all she's pregnant for 40 weeks and could have certainly purchased a can a week or even one a month and had enough to get her thru the first few months... also if money were that big of a concern she could have choosen to breastfeed... but prob the most annoying part about this girl is she went out to smoke (against our policy) regularly and openly stated she smoked a pack a day... If I thought my child would STARVE without formula then I'd give up cigs and buy formula UGGH!! She ended up being discharged and came back to the hospital two days later to OB crying to the nurses that she had no money to feed the baby blahblahblah... and my coworkers each gave her $5... I'm hoping she at least used it for formula:)
Anyway I'm all for people getting donations if necessary, but there is a certain amt of responsiblity required for people doing fertility treatments, a girl I work with had 2 IVF babies (2 pregnancies) and another is going thru IVF right now. Both decided to only to 2 embryo transfers at a time because the most babies they want is 2. You can't go in and get 7 embryo transfers at once and hope for the best. It's not responsible. There are risks to yourself, your babies, your sanity and your finances LOL.
And I'm personally not crazy about the Kate either. She irritates me. I haven't watched the show that much though. But the tummy tuck donation episode where she LIVED with the doctor and his wife for however long was a bit much to me. I can't stand leaving my kids for a 12 hr shift let alone leaving them when they're little babies to go off and have an elective cosmetic surgery that could have waited.
I just want to clarify a few facts that may not be common knowledge among nurses not working in the area of fertility treatment.
People can end up with triplets and more by transferring two embryos. The technologies used to increase the odds of pregnancy also increase the risk of one embryo dividing into identicals. Anyone having IVF, IUI, or even using Clomid should be aware of the risk of higher order multiples.
In addition, I have never heard of any IVF program that transfers seven embryos. The very high order multiple pregnancies usually result from IUI, not IVF. Many insurance companies require multiple cycles of the higher-risk IUI before IVF, which is more controlled in terms of risk of high-order multiples.
I hope that helps put into perspective some of the decisions that may lead to the conception of multiples with assisted reproductive technologies.
I just want to clarify a few facts that may not be common knowledge among nurses not working in the area of fertility treatment.
People can end up with triplets and more by transferring two embryos. The technologies used to increase the odds of pregnancy also increase the risk of one embryo dividing into identicals. Anyone having IVF, IUI, or even using Clomid should be aware of the risk of higher order multiples.
In addition, I have never heard of any IVF program that transfers seven embryos. The very high order multiple pregnancies usually result from IUI, not IVF. Many insurance companies require multiple cycles of the higher-risk IUI before IVF, which is more controlled in terms of risk of high-order multiples.
I hope that helps put into perspective some of the decisions that may lead to the conception of multiples with assisted reproductive technologies.
Thanks, I don't claim to be an expert at fertility treatments and hopefully never will have to be. I have heard of very few insurances that cover fertility treatments and wasn't aware of the IUI requirement.
PKTessler, your statement about mothers going back to work didn't apply to the Dilley family. Becki, the mom, went back to work as a nurse and Keith, her husband, was a SAHD for several years because her job paid more.
I work with a man whose 11-year-old son was conceived through IVF. They used 6 eggs and the pregnancy started off as twins but one baby died almost immediately. I understand that this is believed to occur in about 10% of pregnancies anyway. I know another family whose twins are now in their early teens. The program they went to used 5 eggs and two took.
As for IVF children having an increase risk of problems, that's interesting because my co-worker's son has a very significant learning disability that has never been seen on either side of the family. And one of the twins was diagnosed with retinoblastoma as a baby; the eye was removed and he required no further treatment. One might wonder what factor their means of conception may have played.
Specializes in Rehab, CICU, ICU Pulmonary, ER, OB.
I just wanted to chime in the on the jon and kate grocery bill. If you read the website or watch the show, you know that they buy half a cow, organic of course. (Really expensive). SO they are not buying meat each week, which really lowers the grocery bill!
PKTessler, your statement about mothers going back to work didn't apply to the Dilley family. Becki, the mom, went back to work as a nurse and Keith, her husband, was a SAHD for several years because her job paid more.
I work with a man whose 11-year-old son was conceived through IVF. They used 6 eggs and the pregnancy started off as twins but one baby died almost immediately. I understand that this is believed to occur in about 10% of pregnancies anyway. I know another family whose twins are now in their early teens. The program they went to used 5 eggs and two took.
Wow, those are some nutty programs! I believe the British health service now allows a max of two embryos transferred, and the success rates have not decreased. But then those conceptions happened a long time ago, so maybe even those offices are transferring fewer embryos now? The science in this area is rapidly developing, so what happened a decade or two ago isn't standard practice now.
I also wanted to say that I'm sorry that my comment about mothers' dismay about leaving work may have been perceived as sexist. I meant no disrespect to Keith Dilley or other fathers who stay home. I only meant to respond to the original post, which talked about a mom worrying about lack of job and money. I would imagine that fathers planning to stay home would have similar concerns -- in fact, my disabled patients express these concerns often. I'm sorry for any distress my comments may have caused by people who thought I was promoting sexism.
OK, this may be off the subject a bit but since we are talking about large families, I have to mention the Duggers. I get upset sometimes when I watch that show. The jury is still out for me as far as Jim Bob goes.
However, I love to watch Big World, Little People. Matt is a hoot and I truely love Amy, she is funny, intelligent and a very good mom. She does not let anything stand in her way.
I just wanted to echo Patti's post about the conception of higher-order multiples - it is very rare that they are conceived using IVF, because most doctors would not risk putting so many embryos back in. Generally it is from the "first line" fertility treatments such as clomid/follistim, with or without IUI. The parents are not always informed of the risks of these drugs, and many are not properly monitored to check for the number of mature follicles.
None of us can even imagine the amount of work that higher order multiples require. I get really frustrated by people who say "well I took care of my kids by myself," because it just isn't the same. I have twins, and the work they required as newborn preemies still just boggles my mind. I am very involved in a multiples group, and even the mothers who "only" have twins or trips need some help in the first few months. Having four, five, or six babies to care for without a huge support network is just not possible. Giving up a stable job and moving across the country would be very difficult for any pregnant woman, but the fact is that a mom (or dad) with no help will not be able to care for so many infants on their own.
Also, a couple from our church had sextuplets last year, and they were basically forced to make an announcement about where to send donations. They received so many calls and emails inquiring about it that they couldn't physically respond to them all. There are people out there who genuinely care and want to help parents who are faced with the pregnancy of HOM's. If you're not one of them, don't donate! Please don't mistakenly judge all of these parents as attention seekers or money grubbers.
rph3664
1,714 Posts
It's also entirely possible that both are only children whose parents are deceased. I could, of course, be very mistaken.