MSN Nurse without clinical experience please help!!

joanna73, BSN, RN · Feb 16, 2016

Theory and practical application that occurs through hands on experience are very different. Technically, these MSN programs prepare graduates for work, but you don't know what you don't know.

OCNRN63, RN · Feb 17, 2016

Have you looked into Managed Care - Health insurance? There is a new market for nurses to provide care coordination and chronic disease management.

How can she do disease mgmt. with no real world experience working with patients and their health care issues?

Get2theChoppa · Feb 17, 2016

Maybe the OP can take an instructor position somewhere that teaches theory based classes at the LVN/ADN level, likely at a private school? Or health occupations? Not directly related to leadership degree, but with an MSN the OP should have teaching opportunities.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Feb 17, 2016

I teach RNS, LPNS and health care aides. Even at that level, I'm not sure you would be very effective without actual bedside experience. People tend to learn best when the instructor can provide anecdotes and share real case studies.

There's really no getting around working at the bedside, if you hope to be effective in any of these advanced roles.

Get2theChoppa · Feb 17, 2016

I teach RNS, LPNS and health care aides. Even at that level, I'm not sure you would be very effective without actual bedside experience. People tend to learn best when the instructor can provide anecdotes and share real case studies.
There's really no getting around working at the bedside, if you hope to be effective in any of these advanced roles.

I'm referring to nursing theory courses, which I find have little to do with real world nursing. With health occupations, many job postings say they want teachers with varied experiences--I assume because you're introducing these kids to the world of healthcare. I've also found it interesting that CNA instructors are often required to have extensive work experience in LTC, even though there is nothing I learned from my CNA instructor just because she worked in LTC.

I believe that there is more than one way to do something. I have no intention of ever working as a hospital nurse (and it's not the only "legit" nursing position, as I've often been told), but my current position will be invaluable to me as a future NP in women's health.

Experience means a lot, but it's not necessarily the best indicator that someone will be good at something. We've all had teachers who are awful at their jobs--and yet they have "experience"--what they are often lacking is the desire to teach or the education to know how to teach effectively.

I just don't think it's that cut and dry.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Feb 17, 2016

Bedside experience does not necessarily mean working in a hospital. There are many options. However, even for the theory courses, 99 percent of those instructors worked as a nurse first, somewhere. In fact, all of the postings I have noticed for instructors stipulate 2 years of current nursing experience.

You may disagree but I feel that whatever it is you're teaching requires experience. When your students question ideas, what will you have to draw from? Research articles and the textbooks?

BeachsideRN, ASN · Feb 17, 2016

I'll be brutally honest. In my opinion you will need some real world bedside experience before moving up the ranks of administration. I'm honestly tired of students getting advanced nursing degrees that have never and don't ever want to touch a patient. It's just ridiculous. Experience in patient care is an automatic requirement prior to nurse management in my opinion. It's like a dental student saying they never want to touch a mouth or a student in car mechanics saying they never want to touch a car; but they want to be the boss of those that do. It's BS.
On a related note, I've had a couple non-nursing/non-medical friends that went to for profit schools to get an Associate or Bachelor degree in Healthcare Administration (and accrued tons of debt for it). Then they want to know how to get a job at my hospital in upper nursing/medical management. They are not very happy when I tell them that those jobs go to Doctors and Nurses with experience and advanced degrees (usually in Business Admin.)

Yes. I totally wish that they would have explained better to me that MPH positions typically require a supporting clinical background to be successful.

Lesson learned.

BeachsideRN, ASN · Feb 17, 2016

I teach RNS, LPNS and health care aides. Even at that level, I'm not sure you would be very effective without actual bedside experience. People tend to learn best when the instructor can provide anecdotes and share real case studies.
There's really no getting around working at the bedside, if you hope to be effective in any of these advanced roles.

So true. The extra stories about actual patient care is what drives the concepts home and helps students to remember

BeachsideRN, ASN · Feb 17, 2016

And how would an inexperienced nurse be able to manage care or evaluate medical claims when he/she has no actual experience in providing care? Just as a new grad is clueless as to how little they actually know upon graduation, a Masters' prepared nurse is equally clueless when it comes to the real world of nursing.
Health insurance companies in my area require a great deal of real-life experience for consideration. Would you really want a new grad (MSN or otherwise) who has no understanding of the realities of the medical field, just book learning, to decide your fate when it comes to your personal medical treatment?

Yet, this is the trend. I've had experiences where the insurance companies think they know better than the providers and reject claims out of pure stupidity. For example, pt with large gastric tumor - needed to be removed - insurance declined the procedure because it was deemed "cosmetic" then offered an appeal process that could take minimum 90 days, the patient needed the surgery sooner rather than later.

dream'n, BSN, RN · Feb 17, 2016

Managers and supervisors must be able to do the jobs of their direct employees. They must understand the ins and outs of their employees position to be able to make appropriate policies and decisions, otherwise they can not see where the problems lie and what could improve efficiency. I do not have respect for a boss that cannot step into my role and do a good job.

Get2theChoppa · Feb 17, 2016

Bedside experience does not necessarily mean working in a hospital. There are many options. However, even for the theory courses, 99 percent of those instructors worked as a nurse first, somewhere. In fact, all of the postings I have noticed for instructors stipulate 2 years of current nursing experience.
You may disagree but I feel that whatever it is you're teaching requires experience. When your students question ideas, what will you have to draw from? Research articles and the textbooks?

Before I did a my ABSN program, I was a ESL teacher. I've also been a student for a long time, as has everyone else, and I know for a fact that experience doesn't mean anything if you don't have the passion or the know-how to teach. I've had teachers read off of powerpoint slides provided to them by the textbook publishing companies! Completely ineffective teaching methods, but because they have "experience" they are suitable for the position. And yes, I've seen teachers simply quote textbooks as the ultimate authority that cannot be questioned! Better teachers, usually do know most things, but if they do not know the answer, these teachers tell students that they will have to get back to them on their questions, because they do not know. Experience is a plus, but that still doesn't mean you'll know everything about a subject, and textbook may be consulted.

Furthermore, I've noticed more and postings wherein the higher an education a person has, the less experience applicants need:

"A minimum of 1 year clinical experience in specialty area within the past 5 years."

>>This may be because one area wherein there is a nursing shortage is nursing education. No one wants to teach at the university level. I sure wouldn't-- too much research, and bureaucracy.

Either way, the field/profession of nursing is changing; for good or ill, we'll have to see.

payitforward · Feb 17, 2016

So true!!!! I believe everyone who wants to become a nurse needs to go through the trenches, if you will. When you have a good clinical background you can accomplish much. I know I didn't exactly love med/surg rotation, and when they transferred me to the Emergency room,i went kicking and screaming. But now? There isn't much I haven't seen or done and I feel those exeriences has made me a well rounded nurse. Think about it!