$15 Minimum Wage increases are expected to hit our nation, coast to coast, in the near future. I am concerned that my financial sacrifices & years of educational investments to become a nurse will be highly devalued once minimum wages are doubled around the country.
I am predicting that the higher $15 minimum wages will cause costs of everything else to increase (food, rent, services). Salary earners (RNs) making above minimum wage, will not get raises, yet our cost of living will dramatically increase (eventually by double in most cases, in order to offset the higher cost of minimum wage employees). This all will be fine for minimum wage workers, but I fear that because I make above minimum wage, I will see my budget cost of living budget increase by 1/3 or more and will no longer be able to afford to pay back my student loans once all this happens.
Then comes the bad credit debt & never owning a home & never being able to retire & this snowballs into my college career has been self-destructive, God help us all ...
I would like to hear other nurses input and opinion on the matter, if nothing else but to help me from catastrophizing this ~ Thank You
Another probable outcome with the minimum wage going up is that the underground economy will continue to grow. Already, government requirements put a big demand on business owners. Just the paperwork alone is a nightmare. State and local tax collecting, FICA, quarterly reports, inspections and regulations galore!
Business owners will pay under the table when able. It's simpler. It will fuel the use of undocumented workers of course. Sure, they'll keep some people on the books, for show. But, the reality is, it's a dog eat dog world out there, and when government tries to regulate a social utopia, it usually backfires.
All that is very true.
I do not think that our politicians are so economically ignorant to think that raising the min. wage is going to take anyone out of poverty (or at least I hope not, if they are that dumb that is scary). Things do get more expensive over time, but the amount you get paid is not what controls (from a macro economic scale) your standard of living. For example when I was a child in 1979 my young mother and father bought a house for 35k. My father was an educated man (an engineer), and made what starting engineers made than; about 25k a year. We have since moved from that house, but the house is now worth 250k and when my father retired he was making 70k a year. If you were to take my fathers full check in 1979 and applied it to his mortgage he would have that home paid off in about 1.25 years. Before my father retired, although he made much more money; it would have taken him Over 3.5 years.
Translation: my father's money in 1979 was worth more than his money in 2014 when he retired despite the fact he tripled his income over that time. I am pointing this out as an example of how inflation works, and how raising the wages does not mean raising the standard of living.
Politicians (R or D) bring this kind of thing up because the public schools do not teach basic economics, and yelling "I will give you more money" is something that ignorant people will respond to, and vote for. Raising the min. wage w/o wage controls does nothing except print more money that is worth less. If wage controls are instituted than every nurse on this board will feel it because while everything around you will have gotten more expensive, you will not make any more money. The burger flippers will have a higher standard of living, but yours will be lower. That is wealth redistribution, and most people are for it... until it is their wealth that is being redistributed.
I just don't understand why no one bats an eye about CEOs who are receiving record-breaking compensation at least in part because of rising prices of their products. All the while, their employees are receiving the bare minimum to keep them at the company.
And yet, people are jumping up and down when hard-working people, who do their jobs very well are asking for a fair wage are scolded and told they don't have a strong work ethic or smarts.
I know a lot of minimum wage folks who would like to get more education and training. But they also need to provide for themselves and family, and may be cautious about taking on a tremendous debt load.
I do believe the amount of money that the indicated CEOs are making is ridiculous. The CEO of my hospital is an absolute idiot, he is a super nice guy but still an imbecile. But a fair wage is what you choose to work for. If the minimum wage was $15 when I was going to college to be an RN and start out at $22.90, I wouldn't have actually been an RN.
I believe in a living wage, but I don't believe that the federal government is the one to legislate it. Biloxi knows what work there, just as Anchorage and Buckeye know what work in there respective markets. It just seems like a heavy handed, across the board change, is shooting ourselves in the proverbial foot.
Happy to see NAs mentioned-- having worked as a CNA in LTC for $12 an hour, they deserve more. I'd be happy to see a $15 minimum wage if only because it assured that nursing assistants made a living wage for stressful, physically demanding work.
How many of those NAs will continue to be NAs when they can leave the ECF and work as a burger flipper for the same amount of money, if the job isn't automated, as well as considerably less stress?
For those saying that increased minimum wage does not lead to inflation/increased prices:
1. Offer some short term gains for MW workers offset by higher unemployment
2. Have little to no effect on the upper 1%
3. Screw everyone else in the long term through inflation
Allow me to explain:
1. Some MW workers will gain greatly from an increase in MW for obvious reasons, but it isn't so simple because some will lose their jobs due to automation (a machine that was too expensive vs $8/hr labor might be quite affordable vs $15/hr labor) or use of the labor black market (people working off the books). Others MW workers who are on many social programs with income caps will actually cut their labor hours so as not to lose those handouts. It is a hard and fast rule that increased MW = increased unemployment. Eventually the resulting inflation erases the standard of living gains from increasing MW (and unemployment falls).
2. Those at the top adjust where needed and feel little impact.
WHAT ABOUT RNS? HERE IS THE ANSWER:
3. Short answer: For everyone else, including RNs, your standard of living falls relatively quickly and recovers very slowly if ever...
Very well put. Not to mention the fact that cost of living varies by state and will negatively impact some more than others. Fast food restaurants in California have already started integrating automated ordering systems to keep their profit margins. I understand some people thinking that large corporations like McDonalds can handle this rise, but what about mom and pop restaurants that won't be able to keep their customers if they have to raise the cost of their food?
Someone else mentioned custodial workers and other people who work "undesirable" jobs deserving more than minimum wage. I am not sure where they are from, but I am in Florida and here a lot of custodial, lawn maintenance positions, etc. start at $12/hour or more. There are plenty of jobs out there that pay more than minimum wage, but people have to be willing to work.
It is also important to consider that starting hourly pay is actually quite good for RNs with an ASN or BSN and higher than many other career paths that require degrees, such as teachers. Most of the U.S. is already struggling to keep good teachers because they are not paid enough, now teachers will barely make more than minimum wage. I have an M.S. in communication and currently make $18/hr. I am now working to change career paths and I am quite nervous about how this will impact my cost of living, especially with the student debt I will be carrying.
The increase of minimum wage should be methodical and gradual. This drastic increase, as you said very well, will have a negative impact on the vast majority and it makes me feel sick.
This is a fantastic video that shows how eventually we will probably become a society in which automation takes over most things and very few jobs will be left. Not enough for the populace, so we will have to be able to give people a standard living instead. I know this is the stuff of a conservative's nightmares, but more automation is coming, not less.
There really is no 'opinion' to this. Raising the min. wage will lead to inflation. My wife started out making 11 bucks an hour at her job, and after over a decade makes 15.50. Do you really think she is going to put up with new hires making 50 cents less than her? Of course not, she will demand more because her work is worth more. If she does not get more, she will go to a lower stress job like being a grill monkey.
I made 15 bucks an hour installing cable. If a new hire makes the same as me I will quit if my wages are not raised. To keep me as an employee the cable company will have to give me more, and hence your cable bill just got raised.
Anecdotal evidence such as "the price of a Big Mac has always gone up" is true, but does not state the reason for it. When I was 16 I worked for 3.33 an hour. It was min. wage at the time, and my employer (Pizza Hut) paid me what my no skilled labor was worth. When people think 'progress' is being made because now the min. wage has been raised they haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about. My 1988 money was worth more than my 2016 money.
Raising the min. wage leads to inflation, PERIOD. The only way for that not to happen is when the gov. institutes wage controls. That would be "spreading the wealth", and everyone on this board would feel it because the money you lose would go straight to the low skilled people.
If you do not have wage controls, than congrats. Once the min. wage is doubled, the number on your paycheck will double. The value of your check will not be any higher, but the number sure will be. If that type of thing impresses you I suggest going to Mexico and getting paid in Pesos.
Whatever you think of illegal immigration, stopping it is the quickest way of raising STANDARD OF LIVING. If you create a shortage of unskilled labor, unskilled labor will be in demand and employers will have to pay more for it.
If they institute wage controls people will not go into fields like nursing. Why bother doing something this hard if I will only be paid marginally higher than a guy who flips burgers? Not to mention, you are talking about communism/socialism at that point.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs", (rough quote) Karl Marx
Certain persons have been screaming various actions taken by the Obama administration, Federal Reserve, and so forth will cause inflation for almost the past twelve years? Well where is it then? Those receiving Social Security have had nil to no COLA adjustments for several years now due to low or no inflation. This is true for a host of others whose wages, pension benefits or whatever are tied to cost of living increases that factor in inflation.
Truth to tell the US economy has experienced almost a decade or more of low to no inflation despite a zero Fed funds rate, massive government stimulus spending and other actions.
Those who lived through the 1970's may recall that period experienced something called "Stagflation"; that is a stagnant economy in terms of growth but a period of high to hyper inflation. This time around we have a US economy post fiscal crisis/meltdown that is growing (not by huge amounts but still...) but inflation is nil to negative. Now why is that?
First unlike the 1970's oil prices are low and falling. The other fly in the ointment is wage growth for workers has been almost stagnant. Employers are offering barely 2-3% raises in many instances (if that) on average. Now there are many reasons for why employers are not increasing wages but two main ones stand out; the vast pool of unemployed and long term unemployed means that employers still have a pretty large pool of potential workers to tap. This acts as a buffer to keep wages down. Indeed the only way many today seem to be able to get increased wages is by moving from one job to another.
Another reason why wages haven't budged is that employers have used technology to wring great productivity gains out of workers, often with the same or even a reduced number. In most places when someone leaves, is terminated, or whatever their work is divided out among remaining staff. So again employers are getting things done for less money even if they have to give out small raises to some workers in order to compensate for increased work loads.
Examine the actions of the Obama administration and or those pushing for $15/hr. MW and you'll notice they want to address this wage stagnation on several fronts. Changes to OT rules means certain employees now will be paid and no longer giving "free" labor. Increasing the MW will force some employers to do what they have been reluctant to so far; pay a living wage to a group of workers.
Have said before everyone pushing, promoting, or whatever these and other actions including increased the MW *know* they *may* lead to some job loss and or wage inflation. The first falls under "you can't save everyone", the second is not necessarily a bad thing.
All economies need a degree of inflation. The opposite; deflation is just as bad if it goes on too long, you only have to look at Japan for proof.
Examine the so called "wealth gap" in the USA and you'll see that a large cause is those who earn wages for a living (workers) have seen little to nil increase. Meanwhile those who rely upon assets (stocks, bonds, real estate, etc...) are doing well to excellent. This prolonged period of little to no inflation if not deflation has created an asset bubble, problem is no one knows when it will pop.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
You can't hand wave away basic economics. THAT is a myth. Everyone who has ignored reality has been bitten in the behind when it catches up.
To think that doubling the minimum wages is an effective long term monotherapy for increasing the discretionary spending of the laboring masses is sheer whimsical wishing that flies in the face of established evidence and basic economic facts.
You didn't read any of the articles, did you?
Has anyone noticed that none of the increases in the minimum wage has been an enormous jump to $15/hr?
You might try posting links to support the statements you are making because unlike your 4 years of experience, I have almost 40 years of experience and I have actually lived through substantial increases in wages. I once had my nursing wages (as did all nurses in the area) DOUBLED in a regional wage adjustment...it did not crash the local or state economies.
Brining this on back home to the OP's original query; until or unless a national increase in MW is enacted, things will affect RNs on the ground largely by location.
Thus far only a handful of states have raised their MW to $15/hr. and they are mostly in HCOL areas of the west and east coasts. As previously mentioned RNs in such areas (NY, CA, MA, WA, etc...) already earn vastly more than MW and in many instances so do nursing assistants. You are not likely to see low wage paying states like much of the South move on their own to a $15/hr. MW so that is that.
When you get down to it really even in the aforementioned HCOL states that have increased MW it mainly will affect healthcare workers at the lower end; home health aides, and or nursing assistants who work in nursing homes/do not have current high wages. In such cases the thing to watch is *NOT* direct wage increases to nurses, but how facilities/agencies respond to even the gradual rise in labor costs. So far neither the federal government nor local states have proposed any additional funding to cover the costs places will incur for paying tech/support staff.
Home health is going to be interesting to watch as currently many of those aides (at least here in NYC area) often were paid MW or a hair above without any OT. That is going to change so in about five years that same aide will be making at least $15/hr. *and* is eligible for OT.
Businesses in states that have enacted $15/hr minimum wage have already felt the deleterious effects as have customers. Some restaurants have raised menu prices and stopped tipping for employees. Just like the ACA, people who thought both raising min wage and passing the ACA (you can keep your plan, you can keep your doctor) have found out neither is a good thing. Paramedics, for example, make around $13-15/hr in most locales. So the proverbial "burger-flipper" will be on par with a health care professional, or here in Florida, make more than a trained and certified medical assistant. Minimum wage was never intended to be a "living wage".
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Businesses in states that have enacted $15/hr minimum wage have already felt the deleterious effects as have customers. Some restaurants have raised menu prices and stopped tipping for employees. Just like the ACA, people who thought both raising min wage and passing the ACA (you can keep your plan, you can keep your doctor) have found out neither is a good thing. Paramedics, for example, make around $13-15/hr in most locales. So the proverbial "burger-flipper" will be on par with a health care professional, or here in Florida, make more than a trained and certified medical assistant. Minimum wage was never intended to be a "living wage".
The sky is not falling.
Wages will adjust across the board.
We do not make ourselves great by oppressing the poorest while moving the profits to the wealthiest.
Zooey72
148 Posts
All that is very true.
I do not think that our politicians are so economically ignorant to think that raising the min. wage is going to take anyone out of poverty (or at least I hope not, if they are that dumb that is scary). Things do get more expensive over time, but the amount you get paid is not what controls (from a macro economic scale) your standard of living. For example when I was a child in 1979 my young mother and father bought a house for 35k. My father was an educated man (an engineer), and made what starting engineers made than; about 25k a year. We have since moved from that house, but the house is now worth 250k and when my father retired he was making 70k a year. If you were to take my fathers full check in 1979 and applied it to his mortgage he would have that home paid off in about 1.25 years. Before my father retired, although he made much more money; it would have taken him Over 3.5 years.
Translation: my father's money in 1979 was worth more than his money in 2014 when he retired despite the fact he tripled his income over that time. I am pointing this out as an example of how inflation works, and how raising the wages does not mean raising the standard of living.
Politicians (R or D) bring this kind of thing up because the public schools do not teach basic economics, and yelling "I will give you more money" is something that ignorant people will respond to, and vote for. Raising the min. wage w/o wage controls does nothing except print more money that is worth less. If wage controls are instituted than every nurse on this board will feel it because while everything around you will have gotten more expensive, you will not make any more money. The burger flippers will have a higher standard of living, but yours will be lower. That is wealth redistribution, and most people are for it... until it is their wealth that is being redistributed.