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tamijo63 987 Views

Joined: Sep 24, '12; Posts: 2 (50% Liked) ; Likes: 1

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  • Nov 1 '17

    Quote from JKL33
    I think good information is available to lay persons now, and I'm not sure it was always the case or that it was presented in a way that seemed as compelling as the information presented by the anti-vaccine side.

    Example: Parents often ask why the vaccines must be given on this particular schedule - and believed that this would overwhelm the baby's immune system. It was pretty common to hear a response like, "Your baby is exposed to multiple germs every day - hundreds or thousands! Even eating food introduces germs!"

    That's fine and good (and true), but it's not going to make sense to the parent because the parent isn't dealing with a feverish, fussy and/or "lethargic" baby every time the baby "eats food." It makes perfect sense to them that the immune system could be overwhelmed because clearly something is different; the child is acting a little different.

    [By the way, this same rhetoric is still available though reputable online sources; I know it's factual, but I call it rhetoric because it isn't answering the underlying unspoken question, which is, "why does my baby act so punky after getting immunizations, and is that okay?"]

    I was once told at my doctor's office that vaccines don't cause fever. I had inquired whether it would be okay to give a dose of acetaminophen prior to the visit - and was told it was unnecessary because if my baby had a fever after the previous set of vaccines, it must've been a coincidence.

    Misinformation and information delivered in a paternalistic manner breeds mistrust in people who simply feel very responsible for taking care of a tiny baby.

    I really wonder if more respectful, forthright discussions could have helped, especially before wide use of "Dr. Google." Back then, if you happened to come across Dr. Sears' book - you just might end up giving it all a lot of thought.

    No need to be a conspiracy theorist at all.

    BTW, everyone I am responsible for is FULLY vaccinated, on time.
    I agree. I think it's completely valid to have questions/concerns about your own child's health, and to want to be able to discuss them. The fact that SO MANY vaccines are now on the schedule compared to a generation ago, and that newborns receive SO MANY at once can be off-putting, especially when parents are not health professionals, and when there can be side-effects like high fevers. It's scary to put your baby through that, and if more pediatricians were better about taking the time to listen to parent's concerns, instead of being paternalistic and judgmental about anyone with even a question about vaccines, there might be a lot fewer anti-vaxxers.

    I had a conversation with a pregnant client just a few days ago who was considering refusing Vitamin K for the baby at birth, because she felt like "all newborn babies aren't born requiring immediate help for their immune system." I told her to look at it a different way---that actually, she's right, the vast majority of babies who don't get a Vitamin K shot will be absolutely fine, and won't suffer from hemorrhagic disease of the newborn. But because that one rare baby who does get it has such a devastating outcome, we recommend the shot because it's a simple solution to prevent it. We hate to put babies through anything painful, but in this case pain really is the only possible risk, and the benefits truly outweigh it. She immediately brightened, thanked me, and said that that made complete sense. She said when she had discussed her questions about it with their pediatrician, she simply said, "Don't you wear your seatbelt??? It's the same thing." That turned the client off immediately and made her feel more justified in refusing it. Hopefully now that she was listened to and spoken to respectfully she will choose it for her baby. It's hard to change everyone's mind but I also believe a little compassion goes a long way.

  • Nov 1 '17

    Quote from Kooky Korky
    Thanks. You make us all sound like mental cases. Some of us are actually just as well-read and intelligent and stable mentally as you are.

    Then there are pro vaxxers who are sick enough to skim their patients pain meds and weak enough to let nurses' aides run the show and endure no breaks day in and day out.

    How many of these deeply disquiet anti vaxxers do you know?

    It's easy to try to cheaply discredit your opponents and never give them a thorough, genuine hearing. You don't want to get a bad reputation by actually studying their point of view.

    Maybe their real cause of dissatisfaction is seeing autism rates skyrocket or seeing Guillian-Barre after flu shots that don't even prevent flu.
    1. Autism rates haven't increased. The diagnostic criteria changed and now ASD covers what used to classied under other mental disorders or had no classification at all.

    2. Guillian-Barre syndrome was only slightly increased in one swine flu vaccine in 1976. There has not been shown to have any differences in incidences of GBS with flu vaccines before or since then.

    3. Yes, scientists and medical health professionals have listened to anti vaccine proponents, and scientists have shown over and over that vaccines are as safe as stated. It is the anti-vaccine people that refuse to listen to reason or believe any research that doesn't corroborate their point of view.

  • Nov 1 '17

    Quote from Kooky Korky
    Thanks. You make us all sound like mental cases. Some of us are actually just as well-read and intelligent and stable mentally as you are.
    I actually think that most vaccine opponents are very well-read. The problem isn't that they don't read, it's what they read. The way the internet works, a person can find confirmation for any theory, no matter how flawed. If you don't think that man ever landed on the moon or that vaccines cause autism, there is information on the internet that you are absolutely correct in your thinking. If someone looks for confirmation, they'll find it. It doesn't mean that it's accurate information.

    This following link is to a blog but I think you should read it. I find it interesting.

    Motivated reasoning and the anti-vaccine movement – Respectful Insolence

    Quote from Kooky Korky
    Then there are pro vaxxers who are sick enough to skim their patients pain meds and weak enough to let nurses' aides run the show and endure no breaks day in and day out.
    Oh seriously, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. There are most likely "pro vaxxers" who are rapists and murderers too, but that has no bearing on our discussion.

    Quote from Kooky Korky
    It's easy to try to cheaply discredit your opponents and never give them a thorough, genuine hearing. You don't want to get a bad reputation by actually studying their point of view.
    Most of us who see vaccines as one of the most prominent achievements of modern medicine have given "anti-vaxxers" a thorough hearing. The problem is that those who oppose vaccines completely lack scientific support for the claims they make. To me it's like talking to a person who claims over and over again that the sun sets on the eastern horizon but is unable to provide any proof that it does. Until that person can provide proof that their claim has merit, I will keep on believing that it sets on the western horizon (actually it only sets true west twice a year, during the equinoxes, but it's at least "west-ish" the rest of the time ). My point is, provide scientific evidence for your beliefs, then I'll listen to you.


    Quote from Kooky Korky
    Maybe their real cause of dissatisfaction is seeing autism rates skyrocket or seeing Guillian-Barre after flu shots that don't even prevent flu.
    Elkpark answered this very well, I agree 100%

    Vaccines have saved countless lives. While I can understand that people who aren't healthcare professionals and who aren't familiar with the vast amount of research that exists, could make the mistake of believing that correlation implies causation, I am always deeply saddened when I see a healthcare professional buy into unscientific fear-mongering.

  • Nov 1 '17

    Quote from Kooky Korky
    Thanks. You make us all sound like mental cases. Some of us are actually just as well-read and intelligent and stable mentally as you are.

    Then there are pro vaxxers who are sick enough to skim their patients pain meds and weak enough to let nurses' aides run the show and endure no breaks day in and day out.

    How many of these deeply disquiet anti vaxxers do you know?

    It's easy to try to cheaply discredit your opponents and never give them a thorough, genuine hearing. You don't want to get a bad reputation by actually studying their point of view.

    Maybe their real cause of dissatisfaction is seeing autism rates skyrocket or seeing Guillian-Barre after flu shots that don't even prevent flu.
    Please tell me you don't work in healthcare.

    Firstly, there is NO evidence that states that vaccines are causing higher rates in autism. NONE. It is dangerous to even spread such fallacy or give it lip service as you have done.

    Secondly, pot meet kettle. You attack pro-vax nurses visciously in this post with something that is completely irrelevant to the topic. Fortunately for the pro-vax, there are hundreds and thousands of studies proving the efficacy of flu-shots.

    Thirdly, GBS is extremely rare. Should people stop taking all meds because of the slim chance of an extreme side effect occurring?

    And finally, have you talked to some elderly people who lived through devastating illnesses such as polio, MMR, etc? I bet you are very young and didn't witness such effects. Maybe if you did, you would change your tune.

    Signed,

    Sister of a brilliant autistic teenager who is a physics major and top of his class.

  • Nov 1 '17

    Quote from Kooky Korky
    Then there are pro vaxxers who are sick enough to skim their patients pain meds and weak enough to let nurses' aides run the show and endure no breaks day in and day out.
    This is a complete red herring and non sequitur that has nothing to do with anyone's views on vaccination.

    Quote from Kooky Korky
    It's easy to try to cheaply discredit your opponents and never give them a thorough, genuine hearing. You don't want to get a bad reputation by actually studying their point of view.

    Maybe their real cause of dissatisfaction is seeing autism rates skyrocket or seeing Guillian-Barre after flu shots that don't even prevent flu.
    If anyone is "failing to give ... a thorough, genuine hearing" to the other side or not studying the point of view of the other side, it's the anti-vaxxers. The alleged connection between autism and vaccinations has been completely, thoroughly debunked. Even the question of whether autism rates actually are "skyrocketing" is controversial and unsettled. As for GBS, there was one year in which there was a connection demonstrated between a flu vaccination and GBS. That was 1976, and the vaccination involved was specifically for "swine flu." That was one year, one specific vaccination, over 40 years ago. Before and after that one year, there has been no connection shown between the flu vaccination and GBS. Individuals are no more likely to develop GBS after receiving the flu vaccination than they are to develop GBS without having received the flu vaccination (GBS was around before there were flu vaccinations, and does arise completely unrelated to flu vaccination). What does create a higher risk of GBS is having had the flu. And yet, the anti-vaxxer crowd appears to completely disregard and deny the available scientific evidence related to these issues and prefers to cling to debunked theories unsupported by any actual evidence.

  • Nov 1 '17

    Quote from AceOfHearts<3
    Patients have absolutely NO right to abuse us. Her behavior was so far from acceptable and should have been addressed as soon as it started. It is not ok to abuse the call bell or to scream and disrupt the entire unit.

    I can't believe the hospital allows patients to go outside and smoke. Both facilities I've worked at have been smoke free and the answer was always no to smoking- the patients were offered a nicotine patch. Staff also does not have time to babysit patients on smoke breaks- there are sick patients that take priority.

    The culture on my unit is to not put up with this. We call alert and oriented patients out on their behavior all the time. I've told a patient before I'm there to help, but I am NOT their servant and the way they are talking to me is not appropriate.

    I'm sorry you had to put up with this. Your charge nurses, manager, and supervisors should have had your back and should have addressed this disruptive behavior if the patient did not listen to you.
    I couldn't agree more!!

  • Nov 1 '17

    I'm surprised that such a demanding patient wasn't traded to different assignments for so long. If someone is known to be that draining, our charge nurses do their best to A)give the nurse the lightest possible assignment with the demanding patient and B) not assign the same nurse repeatedly- to avoid such a situation. As for their right, just no. I have told many patients things like- I am happy to provide the best care I can for you in the next eight hours, but I will not tolerate abusive language behavior towards myself or my staff. I will call security if it continues to be an issue. Most people calm down after that. Especially an alert and oriented person? Unacceptable. I also find it highly unusual that your patient can do out and smoke, I haven't seen that yet in my hospital. I would question why management did not get involved earlier with this patient's behavior. It was clearly disruptive to everyone and should have been addressed.

    Don't let this one experience drag you down too much. Focus on the positive experiences you've had, and will continue to have, after this miserable one. Good luck!

  • Nov 1 '17

    Thank you for that. I just didn't know I could do anything other than pull my own hair out. I offered her the patch and she declined. She had on a fentanyl patch that she said didn't work and demanded oxycontin from me that she wasn't prescribed and her doctor had already told her no to.

    Thank you for letting me know that I wasn't a whiner because I sure did feel that way (in my mind).

  • Nov 1 '17

    Patients have absolutely NO right to abuse us. Her behavior was so far from acceptable and should have been addressed as soon as it started. It is not ok to abuse the call bell or to scream and disrupt the entire unit.

    I can't believe the hospital allows patients to go outside and smoke. Both facilities I've worked at have been smoke free and the answer was always no to smoking- the patients were offered a nicotine patch. Staff also does not have time to babysit patients on smoke breaks- there are sick patients that take priority.

    The culture on my unit is to not put up with this. We call alert and oriented patients out on their behavior all the time. I've told a patient before I'm there to help, but I am NOT their servant and the way they are talking to me is not appropriate.

    I'm sorry you had to put up with this. Your charge nurses, manager, and supervisors should have had your back and should have addressed this disruptive behavior if the patient did not listen to you.

  • Aug 21 '16

    Some of the male nurses I know are gay, but most are not. Males in nursing are not even interesting or remarkable these days because there are so many of them.

  • Aug 21 '16

    This is kind of a ridiculous question. If you want to know if women find male nurses attractive, you need to tell the women you're talking to and find out the hard way. However, any man who initially lied to me about his career choice would be throwing down all kinds of red flags from the get-go.

  • Aug 21 '16

    We all know we have to keep it objective and professional when we write a note, but clinical notes are really masterpieces of restraint. They summarize our chaos in a way that makes us look like Daenerys Targaryen calmly walking through fire as everything burns behind her.

    Let's be real though; the sense of humor we have gained from this job can only be kept at bay for so long. Any nurse could write a book about their life and entertain the masses enough to retire like JK Rowling and be done with it. Our notes, however, appear to be lacking that certain je ne sais quoi that makes us who we are. That is, until you know what it is we are really saying. At this point even the MDs are able to joke about the note that will follow our conversations. So keep on writing your notes, hopefully with a smile, and know that I know what you really mean by:

    "MD aware. No new orders received" a.k.a told physician and nobody cared; butt covered

    "Patient arrived to unit" = Here we go again. All hands on deck

    "Patient alert oriented and independent" - yessssss

    "Patient Intubated and sedated" - That'll do donkey. That'll do.

    "Will continue to assess and notify MD with changes" = RN knows something is up; will continue to harass physician until something is done about it

    "Patient repeatedly reminded to..." = oh my god. oh my god. sttaaahhhhpppp

    "RN called provider to bedside, provider at bedside to assess..." a.k.a They saw this **** too, it was not just me!

    "RN asked provider for...; provider said not necessary at this time" - Oh man I told you so

    "Notified charge nurse patient requiring 1:1 care" = Can someone throw me a life raft over here? Anyone? Anyone? Buelleeerrr??

    "Lab notified RN specimen clotted" ...are you serious..seriously..

    "Medication not available" - Sorry sir our pestle and mortar downstairs must have broken today

    "Respiratory Therapist at bedside" - I needed an adult. They can't even breathe around here without us today

    "Patient voiding <30mls/hr" - RN has voided 0mls/12hours....
    "Patient had large bowel movement" Code Brown! Save yourselves! How was the ceiling even in range?!

    "Patient ambulated around unit" aka I am NOT about to disimpact you today sir

    "Patient managed to get out of restraints and..." =...sigh. Houdini over here. What the F... We've got a lively one over here folks!

    "Patient demanding to sign out AMA"
    oh please oh please I triple dog dare you (jk please just get better and be nicer)

    "at 0745 RN noticed patient showing sings of distress, 0830 first unit hung..." = so this is the first time I've sat down, my day was a shitshow and my shift is over. This is going to be one long run on note and that's that

    "RN notified resident... resident stated we will discuss on day rounds" = Where are the adults at this party? can we get some coffee up here?

    "RN walked into room, found family touching equipment" = AW HELL NO

    "At 0700/1900..." = because of course that's a good time to start anything

    "D/C teaching complete; patient being discharged today" - You're on your own now. You know what to do. Take your meds. Don't talk to strangers. You can do this! buhbyeee

    The truth is our notes can never really tell the whole story, so if you're not one of us: buy your nurse friends a beer and ask them about their day. Steady your stomach and prepare for some anonymous stories and an all around good time. We documented. It happened. Just check our notes.

  • Sep 16 '15

    I hope this isn't offensive to anyone but a friend shared this on my fb page.Attachment 19424

    Anne, RNC

  • Sep 16 '15

    Quote from BiotoBSNtoFNP
    They don't buy them, they borrow them from nurses and forget to return them.

  • Sep 16 '15

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