Community college educated (for one of my degrees anyway).
Got my ASN.
Here the thing: I believe what Eleanor Roosevelt said was true. Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.
OP, I deny you permission.
I am compassionate, kind, smart and important in the lives of those who love me and in the lives of my patients. I believe in a better world and I believe in nursing as a profession. I believe in sensible, intelligent conversation on how to make nursing the best it can be and I believe that is never going to be a set goal or a fixed mark. I believe every nurse brings something to the table and that what someone else brings in no way negates what I bring. We compliment one another.
I believe insecure, tasteless, classless, ignorant people exist across all ages, races, religions, sex, education levels and professions. I believe all it takes for one person to be a bully is for that person to feel threatened. And I believe everyone has been a bully at some point in life as well as having felt bullied at some point. Sometimes you are the windshield; sometimes the bug. And I believe nobody really likes the way either one of those things makes them feel inside themselves.
I believe we are humans who have taken on the task of healing, comforting, advocating for and teaching other humans. As humans, we will fail. Often. Ourselves. One another. Our profession. All of us. Not just ASNs. Not just high school dropouts. Not just those of us who went to community college and not just those of us who chose to go to Yale.
My wish for you is wisdom. You have a questioning and seeking mind. May you find answers that speak to you of truth. And the best way to know something is truth is to recognize there are no absolutes.
this thread might draw ire, but i feel that it has to be said.
in my carefully considered opinion, one of the biggest things that holds nursing back as a profession is what i view as a high school dropout mentality. those who have this mentality act as if being an rn gives you the right to bully others. it takes its shape in unprofessional behavior of all kinds, including publicly "calling out" other nurses on the floor, yelling at other nurses in front of patients, lecturing new people about their many years of experience on the floor, and constantly complaining about the facility, the people in it, and gossiping and backstabbing people. you all know people who fit this description to a t at work.
here is what i discovered through my dealings with these types. certain groups tend to have high numbers of individuals with this mentality, and they include nurses who were adult learners, community college students, former lpns, former cnas, and people who actually did drop out of high school in their teens. meanwhile, bsn students and second degree nursing students tend to not have this high school dropout mentality. is that because bsn and second degree students are just less likely to actually have dropped out of high school than the groups i listed above? maybe.
"getting my rn" and becoming a floor nurse is seen as the biggest accomplishment in the world by these groups. becoming an rn is a worthy accomplishment to be sure, but acting like it's the highest honor in the world is rather pretentious. i am not bashing associate degree nurses. i myself graduated with an associate degree in nursing and am pursuing a bsn while working.
before anyone says it, i realize that most people within these groups are normal, everyday people trying to make a living. but isn't that part of what holds nursing back? i want nursing to attract the best and the brightest. i want people who see it as more than a paycheck. i want people who are interested in professional advancement, education, and research, not people who are content with being a ratty, shat-on-her-scrubs floor nurse in a nursing home for twenty years in order to support three adult children who are on welfare. the kind of nurse who long ago forgot if your appendix is on your left or right side of your body. the kind who doesn't care about the science.
does anyone want to weigh in? use this thread to discuss your thoughts and feelings about the high school dropout mentality in nursing. do you believe it exists? or do you believe it is imagined? use this thread to discuss ways in which we can raise the standards of the everyday nurse and stop low class, ignorant behavior.
wow! i'm not sure which part of this inflammatory post to respond to first!
i've found that those who are most concerned about "bullying" in the workplace seem to be those who are actively involved in bullying behavior, whether they recognize themselves as bullies or not. the nurse who says, "i won't stand for it, so i gave her a piece of my mind" . . . probably a bully. the brand new nurse who wants to know how to go about reporting her preceptor for not wearing gloves . . . unless she's discussing sterile dressing change, which is another matter altogether -- probably a bully. i've not noticed that bullying behavior had much to do with education level, years of experience or socio-economic status. some people are bullies; others aren't. and some a predisposed to see bullying behavior everywhere they look . . . whether or not it exists.
"getting my rn" implies that there's an rn just lying there waiting for you to pick it up, which is hardly the case. it's incorrect, and it irritates the heck out of me. it is not, however, bullying behavior. and graduating from an accredited school of nursing, passing the licensing exam and becoming an rn really is a worthy accomplishment. i don't understand why you find the need to denigrate those who are justifiably proud of their accomplishment.
i want nurses who are proud of their degree -- whether it be an ad, a bsn or an msn, and who want to be nurses and take care of patients. attracting the "best and brightest" is a nice idea, but i'd like to see people entering the profession who really want to work with patients. working in a nursing home for twenty years -- whether it is to support three adult children or whether it is because you find geriatrics an interesting and fulfilling profession -- is a valid choice, and it's just as worthy of taking pride in as is climbing the "career ladder" in the tertiary teaching hospital. it's a challenging and worthwhile career; geriatric patients are some of the most complicated around if you're interested in the science. shame on you for putting down someone who is "content with being a ratty, shat on your scrubs floor nurse." without floor nurses, where would any of us be?
when did being a nurse cease to be a respected profession and begin to be just a steppingstone to some other job?
low class, ignorant behavior is a topic in and of itself, but i would suggest that putting down your fellow nurses because they want to stay at the bedside is one example.
I would talk to her first. She won't be receptive (just my guess). Then when you go to management and they ask if you addressed it with her you can say yes and pass along her response. If you I were the manager and you came to me first I would have you go back and talk to her directly. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.
Should I sit her down and tell her she needs to stop the behaviour or take it up the chain and speak to my direct line manager? I'm considering telling them that she needs to rotate through other specialties because her clinical skills need updating.
Any advice would be appreciated because I've been really angry and upset about all of this. Thankyou.
In itallics above, the answer is no.
In bold, the answer is yes.
Dinosaur-brains are not delt with by rational discourse between colleagues.
I'm guessing you live in Victoria. It's true we're facing the biggest industrial relations battle with the government of my career to date, but the stakes are so high that we cannot afford to lose. It may take a while but the ANF and our members will triumph - there will be no introduction of short shifts, split shifts or PCWs, provided we have the support of nurses, doctors, allied health and the community.
Applying to study nursing was the best decision I've made. I found a career I not only enjoy, and friends I'll have for the rest of my life, but it's something I'm good at. I get to make a real, tangible difference to people's lives every day.
If you want to be an RN I say go for it. But in order to have a career at the end of your degree please be involved - attend local public rallies, sign petitions, educate yourself about the situation, visit the ANF website and the campaign's FaceBook page, and become a student member of the Federation.
nurses are said to be the most trusted professionals. i've been in nursing a long time, and over that time i've heard many patients and staff express agreement with that evaluation. i've also heard a few nurses disagree strongly.
there has been a lot of discussion about how compassionate nurses are, how much we give of ourselves, how nursing is more a calling than a career.
i agree with those descriptions as well. i respect nursing as a calling rather than simply a job, and i treasure the souls who give their all to care for others.
there is occasionally another view of nursing, one that sees more humanity than saintliness.
we all know of nursing as a profession that can eat its young.
many of us know or have heard of units where the culture is all too often one of back-stabbing.
this thread is offered for ask if there are any nurses who would like to share their own views or experiences to answer the question:
"are there some work places where our ideals fall short, and the facility or unit culture needs healing as much as the patients in it?"
put another way, are we always kind to our own, or are there instances when the "team" culture is one of exclusion rather than inclusion?
on the one hand, you view nurses as all saintly and compassionate; more than human.
and on the other, you view them as young-eating backstabbers.
personally, i disagree with both views. nurses are humans and we are professionals; we do a job and earn a living to support our families. we are not angels of mercy. nor are we nasty backstabbers and young eaters. in this era of "everyone gets a trophy", too often "everyone" hasn't learned to handle criticism. any feedback that is less than enthusiastic or less than completely positive is viewed as "eating our young." i think we need to get over this "nursing eats their young" kick and learn to hear constructive criticism.
Wow, you are certainly a sweetheart are you not sasquatch?
In my opinion you may need some CE's that involve infection control, client advocacy, and team membership.....among others.....
wow.
condescending much?
dude, put your time in as a real nurse, and come back to us in a couple of years.
big (no - HUGE) difference between nsg school and its ideals, and real-life nursing.
you have a tremendous learning curve ahead of you.
you need an old-fashioned whoopin' from your momma.
You know nothing about my practice. You know about my responses to arrogant nursing students who know it all with no experience of the real world of floor nursing. Who feel qualified to criticize someone who is not in a position to tilt at windmills and lose her job.
But please, critique me. I am waiting with bated breath to hear your words of wisdom.
whatever the dynamics are, you should definitely talk with the cn...
none of this running to the nm first.
you need to assertively tell cn to stop belittling you, and "what can we do to have a professional, working relationship"?
if, after that conversation, she continues...then go to nm.
it's just going to look bad, knowing that you're nm's pet, and 'crying' to her when something goes wrong.
time to man up and handle it like an adult.
She do this with everyone?
If not you probably need to look at yourself in the mirror.
It's never your fault, huh? I'm sayin'...You're doing something wrong.
I feel like that statement is judgmental and not productive to this discussion. If you have nothing constructive to add, please keep those comments to yourself. Bullying is unacceptable, yet it happens every day in our profession. Recently I was bullied by a seasoned nurse. My best advice is to stand up for yourself while still being professional. Talk with your nurse manager. If you want, you could sit down with the nurse manager and this staff member and talk about the problem with the nurse manager mediating. If you have talked with your nurse manager and the situation doesn't improve, talk to them again and ask why is this not getting better. Good luck!
I totally agree with Bella's "Document, Document, Document" but would like to add, keep a copy for your records.
I will tell you this however, if you were my employee and you came to me with this, THE VERY FIRST TIME I would have confronted her with the consequences (in front of the Executive Director) which would start with the police being called and her being discharged. Do what you can to me but DO NOT mess with my people.
Excellent and very well said. No-one would assult staff under my care as Charge Nurse either, and she should be d/c even though she is homeless. It's got to the point where 'it's OK to assult the nurse cos I'm mentally ill/homeless/confused (insert excuse here)'. We need to drum it through the publics heads NO IT IS NOT OK UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
In Aust public hospitals now we have big signs saying ZERO ABUSE TOLERATED (in any shape or form). POLICE WILL BE CALLED AND YOU WILL BE PROSECUTED, then kicked out.
I love that sign cos I can always refer to it, and tell the pscyhotic patients who's Mummy says 'he doesn't know he's hitting people over the head or whacking their shins' - too bad, we don't care, it is still zero abuse regardless of what YOU think your child's diagnosis is. And I usually add by the way, until you have been partially strangled and punched fully in the side of the head like I have, you REALLY HAVE NO IDEA what you are talking about. It's VERY SCARY, to say the least.
Some people just cannot prevent themselves from saying stupid things. Your instructor sounds like one of them. I call it diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain.
Don't let people define who you are. I'm shy and quiet, I do much better 1 on 1, I don't even go to parties anymore because it is absolute torture and I usually end up hidden in a back room with a book. I feel very happy and empowered in nursing.
I'm sure you will be just fine. Wherever you go you will find people like that, and you will meet people like that on the job. This is a good opportunity for you to learn how to ignore such commentary and focus on what you do best.
What the heck? That's the saddest part of the post. It might be a lot easier to succeed if you could get some affirmation from the one person who should always be on your side.
I think I'm a lot like you in some ways. I love theoretical things like ventilator mode differences, but if one of our kids is crashing and there are PRBC's, fluids and five meds at the bedside, I can be a bit slow and disorganized. I found my niche in education, but if I were you, I'd give the bedside one more shot. If you have at least some confidence in your clinical skills before moving to admin or education, that helps a lot.
while i mostly agree contextually with what you're saying, i'm not convinced "bullying" is the applicable descriptor here.
to me, bullying means to intentionally intimidate...but again, i could be totally off base.
i personally believe there are some who just need a quick and firm dopeslap to the upside.
time to grow up....lots of incredibly immature behavior out there.
leslie
eta: ruby, did your boss seriously believe you old dogs were the instigators, or was s/he just appeasing the babes?
Hmmm.
Adult learner here.
Community college educated (for one of my degrees anyway).
Got my ASN.
Here the thing: I believe what Eleanor Roosevelt said was true. Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.
OP, I deny you permission.
I am compassionate, kind, smart and important in the lives of those who love me and in the lives of my patients. I believe in a better world and I believe in nursing as a profession. I believe in sensible, intelligent conversation on how to make nursing the best it can be and I believe that is never going to be a set goal or a fixed mark. I believe every nurse brings something to the table and that what someone else brings in no way negates what I bring. We compliment one another.
I believe insecure, tasteless, classless, ignorant people exist across all ages, races, religions, sex, education levels and professions. I believe all it takes for one person to be a bully is for that person to feel threatened. And I believe everyone has been a bully at some point in life as well as having felt bullied at some point. Sometimes you are the windshield; sometimes the bug. And I believe nobody really likes the way either one of those things makes them feel inside themselves.
I believe we are humans who have taken on the task of healing, comforting, advocating for and teaching other humans. As humans, we will fail. Often. Ourselves. One another. Our profession. All of us. Not just ASNs. Not just high school dropouts. Not just those of us who went to community college and not just those of us who chose to go to Yale.
My wish for you is wisdom. You have a questioning and seeking mind. May you find answers that speak to you of truth. And the best way to know something is truth is to recognize there are no absolutes.
Good luck to you.
i've found that those who are most concerned about "bullying" in the workplace seem to be those who are actively involved in bullying behavior, whether they recognize themselves as bullies or not. the nurse who says, "i won't stand for it, so i gave her a piece of my mind" . . . probably a bully. the brand new nurse who wants to know how to go about reporting her preceptor for not wearing gloves . . . unless she's discussing sterile dressing change, which is another matter altogether -- probably a bully. i've not noticed that bullying behavior had much to do with education level, years of experience or socio-economic status. some people are bullies; others aren't. and some a predisposed to see bullying behavior everywhere they look . . . whether or not it exists.
"getting my rn" implies that there's an rn just lying there waiting for you to pick it up, which is hardly the case. it's incorrect, and it irritates the heck out of me. it is not, however, bullying behavior. and graduating from an accredited school of nursing, passing the licensing exam and becoming an rn really is a worthy accomplishment. i don't understand why you find the need to denigrate those who are justifiably proud of their accomplishment.
i want nurses who are proud of their degree -- whether it be an ad, a bsn or an msn, and who want to be nurses and take care of patients. attracting the "best and brightest" is a nice idea, but i'd like to see people entering the profession who really want to work with patients. working in a nursing home for twenty years -- whether it is to support three adult children or whether it is because you find geriatrics an interesting and fulfilling profession -- is a valid choice, and it's just as worthy of taking pride in as is climbing the "career ladder" in the tertiary teaching hospital. it's a challenging and worthwhile career; geriatric patients are some of the most complicated around if you're interested in the science. shame on you for putting down someone who is "content with being a ratty, shat on your scrubs floor nurse." without floor nurses, where would any of us be?
when did being a nurse cease to be a respected profession and begin to be just a steppingstone to some other job?
low class, ignorant behavior is a topic in and of itself, but i would suggest that putting down your fellow nurses because they want to stay at the bedside is one example.
I would talk to her first. She won't be receptive (just my guess). Then when you go to management and they ask if you addressed it with her you can say yes and pass along her response. If you I were the manager and you came to me first I would have you go back and talk to her directly. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.
In itallics above, the answer is no.
In bold, the answer is yes.
Dinosaur-brains are not delt with by rational discourse between colleagues.
I'm guessing you live in Victoria. It's true we're facing the biggest industrial relations battle with the government of my career to date, but the stakes are so high that we cannot afford to lose. It may take a while but the ANF and our members will triumph - there will be no introduction of short shifts, split shifts or PCWs, provided we have the support of nurses, doctors, allied health and the community.
Applying to study nursing was the best decision I've made. I found a career I not only enjoy, and friends I'll have for the rest of my life, but it's something I'm good at. I get to make a real, tangible difference to people's lives every day.
If you want to be an RN I say go for it. But in order to have a career at the end of your degree please be involved - attend local public rallies, sign petitions, educate yourself about the situation, visit the ANF website and the campaign's FaceBook page, and become a student member of the Federation.
and on the other, you view them as young-eating backstabbers.
personally, i disagree with both views. nurses are humans and we are professionals; we do a job and earn a living to support our families. we are not angels of mercy. nor are we nasty backstabbers and young eaters. in this era of "everyone gets a trophy", too often "everyone" hasn't learned to handle criticism. any feedback that is less than enthusiastic or less than completely positive is viewed as "eating our young." i think we need to get over this "nursing eats their young" kick and learn to hear constructive criticism.
condescending much?
dude, put your time in as a real nurse, and come back to us in a couple of years.
big (no - HUGE) difference between nsg school and its ideals, and real-life nursing.
you have a tremendous learning curve ahead of you.
you need an old-fashioned whoopin' from your momma.
leslie
You know nothing about my practice. You know about my responses to arrogant nursing students who know it all with no experience of the real world of floor nursing. Who feel qualified to criticize someone who is not in a position to tilt at windmills and lose her job.
But please, critique me. I am waiting with bated breath to hear your words of wisdom.
whatever the dynamics are, you should definitely talk with the cn...
none of this running to the nm first.
you need to assertively tell cn to stop belittling you, and "what can we do to have a professional, working relationship"?
if, after that conversation, she continues...then go to nm.
it's just going to look bad, knowing that you're nm's pet, and 'crying' to her when something goes wrong.
time to man up and handle it like an adult.
good luck.
leslie
In Aust public hospitals now we have big signs saying ZERO ABUSE TOLERATED (in any shape or form). POLICE WILL BE CALLED AND YOU WILL BE PROSECUTED, then kicked out.
I love that sign cos I can always refer to it, and tell the pscyhotic patients who's Mummy says 'he doesn't know he's hitting people over the head or whacking their shins' - too bad, we don't care, it is still zero abuse regardless of what YOU think your child's diagnosis is. And I usually add by the way, until you have been partially strangled and punched fully in the side of the head like I have, you REALLY HAVE NO IDEA what you are talking about. It's VERY SCARY, to say the least.
Some people just cannot prevent themselves from saying stupid things. Your instructor sounds like one of them. I call it diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain.
Don't let people define who you are. I'm shy and quiet, I do much better 1 on 1, I don't even go to parties anymore because it is absolute torture and I usually end up hidden in a back room with a book. I feel very happy and empowered in nursing.
I'm sure you will be just fine. Wherever you go you will find people like that, and you will meet people like that on the job. This is a good opportunity for you to learn how to ignore such commentary and focus on what you do best.
I think I'm a lot like you in some ways. I love theoretical things like ventilator mode differences, but if one of our kids is crashing and there are PRBC's, fluids and five meds at the bedside, I can be a bit slow and disorganized. I found my niche in education, but if I were you, I'd give the bedside one more shot. If you have at least some confidence in your clinical skills before moving to admin or education, that helps a lot.
while i mostly agree contextually with what you're saying, i'm not convinced "bullying" is the applicable descriptor here.
to me, bullying means to intentionally intimidate...but again, i could be totally off base.
i personally believe there are some who just need a quick and firm dopeslap to the upside.
time to grow up....lots of incredibly immature behavior out there.
leslie
eta: ruby, did your boss seriously believe you old dogs were the instigators, or was s/he just appeasing the babes?