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mathilda843 3,125 Views

Joined: May 30, '06; Posts: 47 (23% Liked) ; Likes: 33

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  • Nov 27 '13

    Quote from macawake
    Oh, Esme I would never dream of considering another nurse (or human being) inferior. To me it's not a matter of inferiority/superiority. just different paths chosen. I'd be a fool if I didn't think that someone with 30 years of experience didn't have a lot to teach me.

    I don't know you Esme, but I've read enough of your posts to feel absolutely certain that you don't shy away from responsibility. You as a nurse are every bit as responsible for your patients as an MD and have no doubt that you have assumed that responsibilty.

    In my opinion the difference between an MD and a nurse is the area of responsibility, not the amount/degree of responsibilty we have.
    I know you wouldn't......There are some who believe ADNs have an inferior education. I do believe that in the greed department.....their have been the development of inferior programs which are damaging nursing in general....graduates are not graduating with the skills necessary and hospitals are not orienting's sad all around.

    I happen to have my BSN in addition to every certification under the sun....gotten MUCH later after graduating with a ASN from an intense University Program many moons ago. Nurses were considered for their expertise and performance...not the degrees and college debt they have. I was a Director of Inpatient Services for Critical care/Emergency Services when my facility paid because they wanted their managers to have at least a BSN....from an online program which I felt just writing papers added nothing to my ability to lead.

    I have also taught and lectured nursing programs ADN and BSN programs which I no longer qualify to do for I lack a degree. Suddenly I am unqualified so my expertise is I use it here. I was highly offended by my future boss when she said I have no ambition she really couldn't nurse her way out of a paper bag.....but could quote evidence based practice verbatim.......that is something that boggles my mind. NO ambition? I have had an amazing career without a BSN and certainly without a masters degree. When I graduated NP were at the BSN level.

    I do think nursing does need to keep up with the times....I think we need one level entry if only to stop this debate I have listened to for 35 years. I am not against education. I am against leaving what nursing is all about in the process.

  • Nov 27 '13

    I am in the "I miss the old days" camp. I think that we are getting away from what we are....nurses. Just plain old nurses. I liked it when I had a boss who got promoted because she was excellent at the bedside and proved she can lead by example yet still roll up her sleeves in a pinch to help out.

    I am confused by new particular some of the BSN who feels bedside nursing tasks are beneath them...that they seek jobs with minimal patient contact and no poop. no one likes poop...but it is necessary evil. If I wanted ultimate responsibility I would have become a MD...I didn't want to be a MD....I wanted to be a nurse...a simple nurse. I think putting other down as inferior when that nurse passed the same test is detrimental to the profession as a whole. How is a nurse with a ADN degree with 30 years of practice inferior to a BSN with the same amount of years in just isn't the case. How can any one say that one uses evidenced based practice and the other does not is not accurate...for everytime we do something according to policy/within standard we are using evidenced practice.

    I remember once not long ago I was asked when was I getting my MSN/MBA...I said probably never. The interviewer was shocked....she asked why I had no ambition. It was my turn to be shocked.....I told her and her PhD in philosophy that I have a successful and satisfying career...I have had an amazing career that I have enjoyed very much that I wanted to stay near the bedside for that was where I belonged and that I didn't feel a masters would give me anything further but debt...I had 2 children soon to enter college and it was no longer about me. I have the necessary clinical expertise that was necessary to supervise the facility in off hours in a fiscally prudent and safe manner. I was more than clinically competent as a resource and that since I had been a previous director of critical care an emergency service for a facility that was larger...I have the administrative qualifications for the job.

    I did get the job and I was good at it. My boss the MSN,Phd director could not tell the difference between a port, a PICC line or a multilumen and made the comment ...well they are all the same right? Well, no they aren't/ However she could quote the latest evidence based practice except she couldn't practice her way to flush a heploc.

    I think it's hurting what nurses are.

  • Nov 25 '13

    welcome to AN! The largest online nursing community!

    Wow....six months out of school and you are at the top of your game. While you may feel that way....nothing is further from the truth. Mightynurse is your user ID....Okay.....

    Confidence is a good thing. Arrogance will get you into trouble. Being floated was not because of your was most likely because you were low man on the totem pole. Being an EMT/paramedic will not increase your chances of getting into an ED as your are just a new grad. IN the ED we are smart and competent but humble enough to be afraid and cautious.

    As a new grad out of school and deciding that you will now head the pain management team is a bold move and one that was not received I am sure you already know. Using scissors (yuck what is on those scissors that is now on the were you sure they were cut in half accurately?) to cut a pill shows your inexperience as a new nurse when it is clear that you have no remorse is a warning bell to administration/manager that you might have behaviors that will make you a liability. Regardless of what is going on...there are certain short cuts that you just can't take...using scissors to cut a pill is one of them.

    While you saved a patient harm by discovering the drug didn't save the hospital millions of dollars. It is your JOB to prevent errors as you, the nurse, are the last line of defense. Instead of viewing yourself as savior of the facility you are the reasonable and prudent nurse who thankfully saved yourself from a med error.

    Confronting someone in a hallway about a disciplinary action is not an appropriate means of communication about this situation. It can be viewed as aggressive, intimidation, and hostile.Especially if you are male and the other nurse female. Never a good thing. You were suspended. Lesson learned (?).

    While it sounds like a busy day......

    a heavy patient load. It was complete with a patient that had been discharged 3 times (during the same hospitalization) before the head M.D. of internal medicine asked me to call security to have her escorted out of the room, three discharges, two admissions, and a training on insulin pumps. They even tried to give me a direct admit (which is much more involved than a regular one or a transfer).
    it is not an unreasonable assignment on a busy floor. A cake walk by ED standards.

    Leaving an IV port in set the facility up for litigation and if that got infected and the patient suffered and amputation due to massive would be your license and not your job you wold be worrying about....hopefully you carry malpractice insurance to assist you in your defense and legal fees. If need to get some.

    This is about ownership.....responsibility. Caution and respect. Even after being a Critical care/ED/Trauma flight nurse for 35 years.... it is a healthy dose of caution and fear that keeps me humble and safe.

    Being fired is never fun. Take this time to reflect on how to better your practice as a nurse and stop placing blame. Even after 35 years of being a nurse I never stop learning and while I consider myself extremely competent, and have those moment of "damn I'm good" I never forget that I am human and errors are the enemy.

    I wish you the best.

  • Mar 7 '13

    Just a tip: When you make your resume out, don't go back more than 20 years unless it is relevent. Anything beyond that really just shows more "age". I started doing this and got some call backs on my resumes along with 3 interviews and 2 job offers. I have been working at an Assisted Living Facility for nearly 2 years now. Unfortunately, my health has faltered and I am no longer able to work. I am nearly 53. Good luck!

  • Feb 13 '13

    Here's a thought:

    Let's supposed that the deficiencies of age do in fact render a nurse inadequate, UNDER THE CURRENT MODEL OF PRACTICE. Perhaps, then, the solution is to institute a system of apprenticeship wherein the senior nurses have their juniors perform the manual labor of nursing whilst the master nurse plans and directs the care through the day.

    Rather than taking the freshly minted BSN and putting them onto the floor, they instead would spend the next 3 years as a minimally-paid apprentice for the master nurse. I'd have my own 4 patients as well as my A-1, A-2, and A-3 to handle physical labor and other tasks as assigned.

    After graduation from the apprenticeship, the nurse would then spend the next 20 years or so in solo practice whilst attaining 'master' status and the minimum required age to take on an apprentice.

    I say this partly tongue-in-cheek, and because I don't mind doing people's homework for them, but am also pointing out that there are a great many accommodations that could be made to enable nurses to work longer than they might presently be able to.

    I also don't particularly care for the idea that people might be forced into 'retirement' when same might be tantamount to forcing poverty upon them.

    Instead, I'd prefer to see changes to the system which enable MORE gray-hairs to keep earning money rather than trying to force them out.

  • Feb 10 '13

    Quote from thelittledoe
    I want everyone to explain to me:
    Is it burnout?
    Is it the facility itself?
    Is it other staff members?
    Is it patients?
    Is it the demanding work life?
    Is it the lack of work/pleasure balance?
    All of the above....and then some.

    Big corporations that know nothing of day-to-day operations, yet want to micromanage everything and everybody.

    Patients' families, too many of whom are rude, abusive, demanding, entitled, impatient, overbearing, angry, whiny, petulant, obnoxious, ignorant, foolish, and plain old street-rat crazy.

    Inter-shift rivalries.......Jiminy Crickets, people, it's a 24-hour facility for a reason. Deal with it!

    Excessive documentation, which takes nurses away from the bedside, doesn't improve patient care one bit, and serves no useful purpose other than to cover yours and the facility's butts.

    The expectation of loyalty to the employer, who would throw a nurse under the bus in two seconds flat if the occasion presented itself.

    Inspectors/surveyors who have never worked a single shift in a healthcare facility, and think they're qualified to fail an entire LTC if an unused med room shelf has a little dust on it, or a nurse fails to document results (within an hour!) of all 30 of the PRNs she just gave.


    I realize that this list may very well be discouraging, and to be honest, not ALL of nursing is like that. But anyone going into this line of work ought to do so with their eyes open and their minds made up that they will not feed into the negativity.......that they will do all in their power to elevate the profession, even in the face of all that nurses experience in the course of a career.

  • Dec 20 '12

    Hi everyone,

    I'm posting a topic today to offer hope to those of you who may have been in my shoes at some point in time.

    Little history: I decided to go into nursing through a second bachelor's degree program since my first liberal arts degree was not marketable in the economy after I graduated in 2008. So on I went to take prerequisites and I was accepted (to my surprise!). Throughout nursing school I was a straight A student and enjoyed my classes, even research and some of the harder clinical courses that most people complained about the entire semester. So with much hard work and soul searching through two years, I became a Registered Nurse. Well, on paper at least! I passed my board exams and was offered two jobs about two months after graduation. Mind you, I applied to over 100 jobs since my last semester. It was only after I had passed my board exams that I was actually considered for an interview and called back.

    So I decide to take one of the jobs at a private acute care hospital in a medical surgical unit that also received step down ICU patients and fresh ER admissions. I was paid $21.45/hr and worked on average 14-15 hours for each 12 hour shift. This was not isolated to me because I was new. This was a widespread activity for every single one of the nurses on the floor. We were expected to complete the impossible and yet the stress was overwhelming and the liability issues mounting. I would cry before I walked into work hoping and praying that the day would not collapse for if I dare forget one detail my butt was on the line with the charge nurse and director. Example of this was extensive management oversight during the day to inspect and watch to see if all customer service components were completed during change of shift report. This would easily take 45 minutes to 1.5 hours to complete all the shift reports for two nurses to change shift. Anyway, I digress.

    After working on day shift, I requested a change to night shift, something I had never done in my life, for hope that the stress would be less and the demands of the job more tolerable. BOY WAS I WRONG! The night shift was terrible and I suffered a lot of health problems from the shake it made in my body. So after three months of employment, unpaid overtime and harassment and discrimination from the patients, management, and other nurses I said goodbye.

    That was the happiest most liberating day in my life. I am now a professional educator and teacher for science and mathematics. While every day is no where near perfect, the impact I make on other people is much more fulfilling and deep. I am not robot nurse. I actually help people and feel like I am part of a profession. Something, that nursing tried to eat off my bones from the day I stepped into that field.

    All I can say is.... if you are truly unhappy with nursing and the mountain of things that are changing in the healthcare system you can either be part of the problem or part of the solution. I chose to leave it and despite the work and time I put into it, leaving was the best decision for me. There is NO SHAME in moving on from something toxic and unhealthy. There is NO SHAME in discovering other talents and dreams.


    Hope this helps someone out there. Best of luck to all of you who actually finished reading this monstrosity of a post!

  • Oct 24 '12

    A good English teacher or professional editor (I am one) could do that for you. I think it likely that the program's admissions committee specifies how to answer because it wants comparable essays. I doubt that it wants to read rewrites by a professional, though-- it wants to evaluate your ability to express yourself and your objectives for your graduate education. They tell you they want to know who you are; take them at their word.

    However: Am I the only one who is asking why an adult learner who is ready to apply to a graduate level program feels the need to ask this question? When I made out my application for grad school it never would have occurred to me to
    ask someone to help me interpret the directions and craft an answer.

    Help me out here-- why would someone old enough for graduate school not feel competent or self-aware enough to do this unaided? Especially when they TELL YOU WHAT THEY WANT? Is this evidence of readiness for advanced education and, presumably, resulting autonomy in a profession?

  • Oct 12 '12

    Dumbfounded, I am.

    I can understand if you did deep suctioning (endotracheal); facilities and RTs can be weird about who is allowed, etc etc. But a YANKOWER?!

    In NO WAY could clearing crap out of a dying patient's mouth be considered anything but compassionate, BASIC care. It wasn't going to prolong her life (unless, of course the plan was to MAKE her choke on old food??).

    Ridiculous, and I'd fight it tooth and nail. Your manager is a nincompoop, period.

  • Oct 11 '12
  • Jul 20 '12

    I will respectfully disagree with you on three points. I do not feel nursing is a calling, there are many days when I feel it doesn't meet the qualifications of a profession. Burnout in nursing is NOT going tobe cured by a better orientation for new nurses, the problem is much more complex than that, and lastly put the responsibility for poor training and retention of new nurses where it belongs- on ineffective and shortsighted management that consistently under staffs, provides little to no training for preceptors, and picks the wrong nurses to be preceptors. Not everyone can or wants to teach. Nurses provide a much better learning environment for newbies when the newbie represents a chance to pass on valuable experience and not another set of challenges on top of an already unmanageable workload.

  • Jul 16 '12

    [color=#0c0b62]it must be summer again -- all the posts from newer graduates who have just started new jobs and are convinced that their new colleagues are being mean to them. then they proceed to tell us that they're not contributing to the problem -- they barely say anything at work, yet they're "approachable and friendly -- and it's entirely the fault of their colleagues who are bullies. and a bunch of other newer grads jump on the thread, proclaiming how awful it is that nurses eat their young, and how everyone knows that old nurses are mean to newbies. next it will be the "they're all jealous because i'm so much younger and more beautiful" posts. [color=#0c0b62]

    [color=#0c0b62]at the same time, there's a post decrying the unfairness of it all that the chatty, social nurse gets the job when the quieter nurse with the better gpa (who is convinced that she is the better nurse) doesn't get hired. as one of the quieter ones, i can see her point -- sort of. i'm beyond lucky that i started my career when there was a shortage, because i probably wouldn't get hired now. i'm actually shy, although probably none of you who read my posts would believe that.

    [color=#0c0b62]the thing is, hiring managers hire those people they'd like to see at work every morning. especially when it comes to new grads -- we can teach you how to be a nurse; but we cannot teach you how to be the person we enjoy working with. so the social person is more apt to be hired than the quiet person. male or female, great school versus ok school. fabulous gpa versus just barely got through -- managers are going to hire the person they can chat with. whether that's fair or not, that's just the way it is.

    [color=#0c0b62]if you're quiet and shy and you managed to get hired, that's great. congratulations. you've got your work cut out for you because in addition to learning how to be a nurse, you now have to learn how to get along with your new colleagues.

    [color=#0c0b62]you might be there for the patients, to do your job and not to make friends. but the fact of the matter is that nursing is teamwork, and it's hard to feel as if you're part of a team (or for others to feel that you are) if you're not friendly with your coworkers. that means you have to be prepared to chat with them. i've seen posts from newbies who were incensed that their older colleagues asked them personal questions such as were they seeing anyone or how old their kids were. probably all their colleagues wanted was some basis for chatting. politics and religion aren't very safe topics, but nearly everyone likes to talk about their kids.

    [color=#0c0b62]so you're working at a new job, and because you're new, you make mistakes. most of us understand that, and when we're not stressed out by the overwhelming pressure of keeping our patients safe and cared for while orienting you, we're understanding. however when we point out your errors and you are quiet or defensive, it appears to us that you don't get it. you could hurt someone if you don't get it right. we need for you to get it. if we point out a few errors and you don't seem to appreciate the seriousness, we may get more strident when we point out the next error. hence the complaint from the newer nurse that "they're acting like i killed someone when no one was harmed." that's not the experienced nurses being nasty to a newbie. that's the experienced nurse trying to elicit the proper appreciation of an error. usually.

    [color=#0c0b62]i'm not saying that there is never an experienced nurse being nasty to a newbie . . . but i am saying that it doesn't happen nearly as often as i see it complained about. when you think about it, i'm older than the parents of the last few orientees i've had. when their parents point out errors, they probably roll their eyes and complain about how unfair mom or dad is being. (just like we did when our parents came down on us.) it's not that far from complaining how mean the experienced nurses are. fortunately, i've been blessed with truly smart newbies with great attitudes. some of the attitudes i've seen on this board, though, aren't nearly as good.

  • Jul 12 '12

    Memo from the desk of Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociopath:

    For some reason, in my world, there seems to be waves of emotion that hits in a near cyclic manner. And I am most certainly not referring to hormones or my own off kilter dysfunction shabbily passed off as humanity, thank you very much. No, I am referring to days, even weeks, where it seems like everyone around me feels the need to have a good cry. From fellow nurses, to family members, to patients, heck, even managers, it would seem that no one is safe from the trickle of unbidden water works or even outright sobbing. It's a bizarre phenomenon and one that makes me feel about as awkward as a head-gear riddled middle-schooler, pressed against the wall in a lightly mildew scented, "mood-lit" gymnasium, resisting the urge to scratch inappropriately and anxiously waiting for the one and only James Bobby to ask me to dance to Journey.

    ::ahem:: Not...not that I would know what that would feel like or anything.


    So odd how the ability to multitask can pay off at strange times. In the middle of a relatively busy surgery, up to my specimens, over the gurgling hiss of suction and the tonal whine of the cautery, from the back corner where a nursing student huddles watching the procedure I heard ::sniffle::.

    Now, normally a wayward runny nose does not cause any alarm, but when coupled with distinctly watery eyes and a noteworthy brow furrow, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts there is a chin wibbling beneath the surgical mask. Abandoning my specimens, I slipped over to the observing nursing student and made the horrible mistake of asking, "Do you need to sit down? Are you alright?"

    Hmmm. I'll admit, not my most observant or therapeutic communication garnished moment, but it was enough. The sniffles deteriorated to barely restrained crying and yes, as a matter of fact, she did need to sit down. Eventually, she and I stepped out of the room and had a little chitty chat in the locker room, complete with foghorn nose blowing and a few too many hugs for my comfort. However, what she needed from me in that moment was for me to be there and she reminded me that sometimes we just need someone to say five little magic words.

    This rambling mess is dedicated to her and to any student nurse, new grad, veteran nurse, and nursing manager out there.

    I am going to give you five words--just five little magic words because sometimes we just need an outside source to say them, mean them, believe them:

    It's going to be okay.

    Really. I promise, from the bottom of my heart, eventually it will all be okay. It may not be perfect, or painless, or exactly the way you hoped/dreamed/prayed/demanded it would be, but it will be okay.

    That moment of overwhelming frustration you experienced today? It will pass. That time when you couldn't help but roll your eyes because the world annoyed you? Yeah, we've all been there. When you spouted a cuss word conveniently in front of your boss? In hindsight....that's kinda funny and let's face it, we are all prone to slips.

    And it is so easy to become our own saboteur.

    When ensnared in that horrible moment of self-doubt, when all your thoughts form a razor-edged maelstrom of demeaning self-abuse, replaying, replaying, replaying the mistake, the moment you coulda-woulda-shoulda done something different, better, faster, stronger and UGH! How could I be so stupid?!


    Stop now.

    Why? Because you are human. Because you deserve better than to be attacked by the one person who should always be supportive: yourself. You need to embrace yourself as your own ally.

    For pity's sake, there are enough people in this world trying to bully others--please do not bully yourself.

    Be kind. Be gentle. Be forgiving. But be smart about it. Learn. Grow. Adapt. Excel.

    You are wonderful. You are amazing, unique and truly special. Your supposed flaws are nothing more than quirks that make you more than fantastic, in fact they make you interesting; they add flavor to the gourmet dish of spectacular you. I am not just saying it--I believe it--I know it. Because I'm hardcore like that.

    The equation is simple: You = awesome.

    And not because you are a member of the nursing community.

    I want you to remember something very important: RN does not a person make. RN should not define you. I beg of you, do not limit your potential to two little letters. There should always be more to your identity than your job, regardless of how much you love it; and if you take a moment to think about it, there always will be something more to you. Remember that, please.

    Embrace it. Internalize it.

    There is more to me than RN.

    Remember it when others try to pull you down. Remember it when you feel like a cog in a machine. Remember it when you're pulled into the gaping maw of the work place Drama Monster. Remember it when, for one scary moment, you stop seeing something good in yourself.

    There is more to me than RN.

    So who are you?

    Allow me to go first:

    I am CheesePotato.

    I hate thunderstorms with a passion but I love booming surround sound. I like to think I can sing and I have a bad habit of forgetting to put on pants before walking in front of the bay windows overlooking my back yard (and yes, I'm sure I've scarred a few neighbor children for life and no, I do not have Alzheimer's). I have the handwriting of a serial killer. I drool on my pillow when I sleep and wake up mad as hell regardless of time of day. I used to play Dungeons and Dragons when I was young and to this day still own a twelve-sided die. I am a terrible cook. Like seriously. I could burn a stick of butter left out on the counter top to defrost. I'm overbearing, petulant, and slightly deranged. I lose my car every time I go into a store. I can recite Edgar Allen Poe's "The Raven" from memory. I have this strange Rain Man like ability to memorize song lyrics but, off hand, I couldn't tell you a normal BUN lab level if my soul depended on it.

    I am CheesePotato.

    And I just so happen to be a nurse.

  • Jun 13 '12

    One thing that has baffled me on this website is individuals always are up in arms when the truth is, if you have no passion for the profession you need to make life decisions for yourself. Most individuals come on to complain about the nursing profession, long hours, nursing staff, arrogant doctors. The truth is, this is not Mcdonalds where you work the job because it's a requirement for survival. You entered into college and chose a profession that makes you miserable, spent countless hours studying a subject that you have no interest in, and entered the work field to make others who are passionate about their careers miserable. Yet, many complain that the healthcare field has taken a turn for the worse. Has it ever occurred to those same individuals, if there was no passion for the career to begin with there would be none after starting your first, second, third, or even tenth position?

    Maybe it's my family values that taught me, if I don't love what I do there is no way I will ever be successful in life. Success is not defined by the basic salary, but level of contentment with my life all together.

    So I say, if you hate nursing make life decisions so the rest of us can enjoy our jobs.

  • May 26 '12

    One final thought from me. . .

    1. If you consider death and dying fun, then nursing is for you.
    2. If you consider pain and anguish fun, then nursing is for you.
    3. If you think verbally abusive families are fun, nursing is for you.
    4. If exposure to infectious diseases is fun, then nursing is for you.
    5. If the possibility of career-ending injuries sounds fun, nursing is for you.
    6. If being viewed as an 'expense' that detracts from the bottom line sounds fun, nursing is for you.
    7. If dealing with condescending doctors seems fun, then nursing is for you.
    8. If stress and burnout sound like a lot of fun, then nursing is for you.