Medicaid. Is it being abused?

LydiaNN · Jan 9, 2006

Funny, my paternal grandfather immigrated to this country via Ellis Island (I know because I went there and search their data base) and he was not required to have a visa. And my grandfather got a job, after being sponsored by a relative and it being a condition of his immigration. He worked his way up, married, had my father and seven other brothers and sisters. Things were, in a way, a lot simpler back then. White, European, you were not viewed as much of a threat back then, although my grandmother remembers the no Irish need apply signs. And she was Irish.
As for the large number of U.S. citizens who will take the jobs the illegals do, question, will they work for the same poor pay, live ten men to a room, sleep in shifts? I doubt it. You see, I live in SW Florida not too far from the major truck farms of this wonderful state of Florida. A lot of illegals do the crop work here, for much less pay. That is one of the reason's your vegetables are so cheap. And since our last two bad, very bad hurricane seasons, we also have a large number of non=U.S. citizens working on construction crews, road repair crews, etc, although it has lowered the cost of construction. And I doubt that any U.S. citizen would live in the substandard housing they are offered and charged an arm and a leg for.
And I really hate to tell you this but the opportunities for immigrants has changed. Back when your and my grandparents immigrated, picking crops was a big opportunity. It was left mostly to blacks. Opportunities were in the sweatshops, which, horror of horror, unions forced out of business. And no thank you, I do not want prisoners out picking and doing construction. Too much of an opportunity for abuse by the state and the employers. And I don't view work as a form of punishment.
And you should read a little more rather than get your information from Mr. Dobson. Studies have shown that more then 70% of the illegals are from Central and South America. And as such, would have to be flown back to their home countries, they can't be deported to Mexico. It is against the law.
If you want to deny education to illegal off spring, feel free to. Just be prepared to increase your law enforcement, justice and long term prison systems. And be ready to build a wall around your home and lay in a supply of guns, you may need them.
What the heck, same old rhetoric, same old misinformation.
Grannynurse:balloons:

You're absolutely right about the working conditions many of these immigrants face. I watch those guys picking strawberries, as I drive by in my nice car on the freeway, and I scoff at the notion that they're taking jobs away from Americans. Yep, those Americans are just lined up wanting to work piece meal in the blazing sun, stooped over all day, only to return to a migrant camp at night. Shameful that these jobs aren't going to Americans, isn't it? Or all the American women who are missing out on scrubbing someone else's floors and toilets, changing messy diapers on someone else's baby, polishing someone else's silver. Yep, we've got Americans just clamoring for that opportunity. I'm not saying no Americans would take the jobs, but they certainly wouldn't work for the wages these people get.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Jan 9, 2006

Perhaps they stopped their attempt because they were breaking federal law. Any facility that accepts Hill/Burton funds, what one doesn't, must provide care to any person presented at their door. They must stabilize them before they can transfer them to an appropriate public/foreign facility. And that facility must accept the transfer. What your facility attempted to do is not only illegal, it is unconscionable. I really do not give a good hoot if the patient was legal or not. He was a critically ill patient, according to you, and deserving of treatment. And by the way, facilities do not lose everything treating illegals, they do get federal grant money.
Grannynurse
Now I am going to bed

Granny,

I agree with you that the facility described above, trying to ship the person out...unethical and immoral. That said, I can tell you as someone living within 2 hours of the border, it's common knowledge that we DO NOT get compensated by the Federal government for the full cost of the care for illegal immigrants. Arizona sues the Feds every year to get fully compensated and it doesn't happen. It's a huge drain on the citizens of the state. I don't want illegal immigrants denied care that they need. What I want is legal immigration. Not illegal. It's also a concern with terrorists.

We need to control immigration, do it legally and provide humane care to all.

LydiaNN · Jan 9, 2006

Granny,
I agree with you that the facility described above, trying to ship the person out...unethical and immoral. That said, I can tell you as someone living within 2 hours of the border, it's common knowledge that we DO NOT get compensated by the Federal government for the full cost of the care for illegal immigrants. Arizona sues the Feds every year to get fully compensated and it doesn't happen. It's a huge drain on the citizens of the state. I don't want illegal immigrants denied care that they need. What I want is legal immigration. Not illegal. It's also a concern with terrorists.
We need to control immigration, do it legally and provide humane care to all.

Same with California. The costs of immigration are a federal issue and the costs should be picked up by the feds. That doesn't come close to happening.

DidiRN · Jan 9, 2006

They did not stop their attempt, and they found someone at the person's country to accept them as a patient. They ended up becoming more unstable and that is why they stayed here. BTW, this would not have been an ambulance ride, this would have been a 12 hr plane ride (and probably longer than that, that's just my estimate).

Federal laws can be changed (assuming your statement is correct), and in this time of crisis, I'm sure they soon will be. We simply cannot afford to take care of everyone anymore.

People are fed up, and rightfully so. Things are already starting to slowly change, with talk of building a wall, the formation of a volunteer militia to help watch for illegals, etc. Some of it I may not feel is correct or won't be effective, but I can certainly understand the frustration and anger behind it.

Telling us that we are so awful for feeling this way doesn't change anyone's opinion, frankly. In fact, I believe it fuels even more anger. It certainly wont change anyone's mind. Not mine, at least.

Perhaps they stopped their attempt because they were breaking federal law. Any facility that accepts Hill/Burton funds, what one doesn't, must provide care to any person presented at their door. They must stabilize them before they can transfer them to an appropriate public/foreign facility. And that facility must accept the transfer. What your facility attempted to do is not only illegal, it is unconscionable. I really do not give a good hoot if the patient was legal or not. He was a critically ill patient, according to you, and deserving of treatment. And by the way, facilities do not lose everything treating illegals, they do get federal grant money.
Grannynurse
Now I am going to bed

LydiaNN · Jan 9, 2006

They did not stop their attempt, and they found someone at the person's country to accept them as a patient. They ended up becoming more unstable and that is why they stayed here. BTW, this would not have been an ambulance ride, this would have been a 12 hr plane ride (and probably longer than that, that's just my estimate).
Federal laws can be changed (assuming your statement is correct), and in this time of crisis, I'm sure they soon will be. We simply cannot afford to take care of everyone anymore.
People are fed up, and rightfully so. Things are already starting to slowly change, with talk of building a wall, the formation of a volunteer militia to help watch for illegals, etc. Some of it I may not feel is correct or won't be effective, but I can certainly understand the frustration and anger behind it.
Telling us that we are so awful for feeling this way doesn't change anyone's opinion, frankly. In fact, I believe it fuels even more anger. It certainly wont change anyone's mind. Not mine, at least.

Do you really believe that the talk of walls and volunteer militias are something new? They're not. By a long shot. As a matter of fact, some parts of the border already have a wall, and there are volunteer militias in CA, AZ and TX, at least.

DidiRN · Jan 9, 2006

Do you really believe that the talk of walls and volunteer militias are something new? They're not. By a long shot. As a matter of fact, some parts of the border already have a wall, and there are volunteer militias in CA, AZ and TX, at least.

I'm well aware parts are already walled off, thank you. But I believe there is talk of doing the entire thing. To me, at least by what is getting reported, it is becoming much more serious than ever before.

As for the militia, they are fairly new. I guess it depends on your definition of new, though.

LydiaNN · Jan 9, 2006

I'm well aware parts are already walled off, thank you. But I believe there is talk of doing the entire thing. To me, at least by what is getting reported, it is becoming much more serious than ever before.
As for the militia, they are fairly new. I guess it depends on your definition of new, though.

Right, if you consider 20 years as new. They were here when I got here in 1986.

ERnights · Jan 9, 2006

I need to add something here again. At the ED where I work, people do not get treated differently based on the insurance or lack of. While I stand by my claims that there are many people on medicaid that appear to be abusing the system, this doesn't mean that they get poor treatment. Any person who comes to the ED for a foolish reason ends up getting a less than million dollar workup. A sick homeless, poor, nonspeaking, etc person gets the same treatment that everyone else gets. People that complain about the lack of treatment they get stating their insurance is making them be discriminated against, are ridiculous. This is the same person probably abusing the system to the max. I'm sorry but in Mass, some medicaid recipients have no money for cabs, rx, etc, but their cellphones are state of the art. Their acrylic nails are done, their clothes are name brand. I responsibly pay my bills and try to save, then I may think of acrylic nails, although I can't stand to look of them.

I have gone up to the docs when I'm trying to discharge someone to ask for the tylenol or motrin script and I'm told that they can get it otc by the doc. I certainly can't make them write it. When it involves a child that I'm worried will maybe not get the meds, I'll bug the doc more or give a couple of doses of tylenol to go. But for adults that are better dressed than all of us, forget it, I will not break a sweat, I'll ask once.

I dont know where you all are from, but in Mass we have a real problem in our ED's. We are holding too many patients at a given time, including vented patients waiting for ICU beds to open up. The psych holds are unbelievably long. The amount of workups we now do in ED's are unbelievably long and keep you busy, so people who come to the ED for convenience sake annoys me tremendously. It takes away from my taking care of sick patients. This includes the medicaid people who don't have a large copay therefore it's not a big deal for them, this includes every foolish person who could of waited for their doc. As far as immigrants, don't get me going. I'll say I've taken care of very lovely older people who have needs. But the other day I took care of a lovely lady who had her daughter interpreting. Pt has been in country for 3 days. Daughter told me pt's chest pains and dizziness have been occurring for 3 weeks. She told me that they took her to a doctor in her own country who told her it would be months before tests could be done and she should take her to the states. I still treated them nicely but couldn't believe that daughter thought this was alright to say.

I would of been embarrassed to say this. Perhaps I'll go to Russia and demand an interpreter and a cab voucher. Or I'll go to the Dominican Republic and ask for food stamps and a physical at the ER. I'd like to know where they get the information that they can get all of these services when many Americans don't know this. Then there are the people who are looking to for any reason to get rich with a suit. We know who they are, the mva's, the slip and falls at (they always name the store), the fall at work. I want to tell them that they probably will not get to retire from their bruised whatever. I'll stop now saying something has to be done to make people own up to their responsibilities and take care of themselves, there isn't enough money in the world to continue in this manner.

Again I'm stereotyping, the student nurse who's trying to get ahead isn't the person who I feel is abusing systems. This is what programs are meant for. I bet with her kids and school, she doesn't spend however much it is per 2 weeks for the acrylic nails. Everyone take care and have a good week.:)

DidiRN · Jan 9, 2006

Right, if you consider 20 years as new. They were here when I got here in 1986.

I am referring to the Minuteman Project, which started operations on April of 2005 (fairly recent, in my book). If there are any more organized, grassroots efforts out there, perhaps you can enlighten us all.

Fact is, people are angry and upset over the flood of these illegals. Folks like you can blow us off as ignorant, racist, or whatever, but my point is, doing such a thing fuels it. You certainly have a right to your opinion on this, as well as I do. My concern over the anger is that it may very well lead us eventually into something you and I both do not want for our country. For example, whether it be a huge barbed wire electric fence across the entire border, or shipping off illegals and dumping them into the desert (like another country did over in Europe did recently). This wont happen overnight, but I can see it starting. Change happens slow.

LydiaNN · Jan 9, 2006

I am referring to the Minuteman Project, which started operations on April of 2005 (fairly recent, in my book). If there are any more organized, grassroots efforts out there, perhaps you can enlighten us all.
Fact is, people are angry and upset over the flood of these illegals. Folks like you can blow us off as ignorant, racist, or whatever, but my point is, doing such a thing fuels it. You certainly have a right to your opinion on this, as well as I do. My concern over the anger is that it may very well lead us eventually into something you and I both do not want for our country. For example, whether it be a huge barbed wire electric fence across the entire border, or shipping off illegals and dumping them into the desert (like another country did over in Europe did recently). This wont happen overnight, but I can see it starting. Change happens slow.

I didn't refer to you as ignorant, or racist, and I certainly don't appreciate your implication that I did. OTOH, perhaps it is an oversensitivity on your part, to read things into comments that just aren't there. Honestly, if you're going to debate a hot button topic, you should expect some differing points of view without claiming people are calling you names. As for the Minuteman Project, since you didn't refer to them earlier, I certainly had no way to know that's what you were thinking about.

grannynurse FNP student · Jan 9, 2006

From the little of the thread that I've read it seems to have become really heated. I'm not sure what that is all about but I just wanted to make an observation.
Friday I went to see a medicaid patient in a very poor area of town. Very tiny house, nasty carpet, nasty curtains, just nasty nasty. The patient was very pleasant. BTW they had a large flat screen TV and a Direct TV satellite hanging on the side of the house. Hum, not taking his generic Dilantin because he cannot afford it, again, Hum.

Can't sleep.

Did you ever stop to think that the big screen TV and direct TV satelite might be a grift from someone else. I have access to the internet and I live on a very small fixed income. There are some who would question my spending money for internet access. Well, I don't. My daughter pays for it and I have access off of her. And ten months ago, I purchased a new computor, at Wal-Mart for $498. I saved the money for a long period of time. It is my money and I am free to spend it in any manner I wish, without anyone else having one tiny say. Your patient can't afford his generic dilantin. Funny, in every state medication is covered by Medicaid. Some states may limit the number of scripts that can be covered but that can be appealed. If he were my patient, I would be making a call to a social worker to found out why his Medicaid isn't paying for his dilantin.

Grannynurse

DidiRN · Jan 9, 2006

I didn't refer to you as ignorant, or racist, and I certainly don't appreciate your implication that I did. OTOH, perhaps it is an oversensitivity on your part, to read things into comments that just aren't there. Honestly, if you're going to debate a hot button topic, you should expect some differing points of view without claiming people are calling you names.

No, you didn't say that. I said, "folks like you"...I didn't say you personally. What I should have added was the word "some" before that. My error. It's your opinion that I am oversensitive, but I disagree. I certainly believe it is covertly done in arguments though, not just on here but in society today.

Having an ultra liberal twin brother and an ultra liberal best friend, I'm pretty well aware of different opinions. And we all get along great.