Master's entry programs vs. Bachelor's Programs

[suewolfie]

Hello everyone! My name is Laura, and I just registered here after reading these messageboards for a few weeks.

I am trying to make a decision about where to go to nursing school. I was just accepted into Vanderbilt's Master's of Nursing Program in Midwifery, which I am very excited about. However, it is extremely expensive, and I am trying to decide if it is worth it. It's a 6-semester program. After the first 3 semesters I would take the NCLEX and become an RN. The remaining 3 semesters would be spent in the midwifery specialty.

The other option is to go to a cheaper school, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, for 1.5-2 years, get a Bachelor's of Nursing Degree, take the NCLEX and become an RN, then work for a few years and go back to school to get the master's degree.

I have no nursing experience. I have been taking my pre-requisites at a local community college and will start my program, whichever one I decide on, this fall.

My question is: is it better to get the lower degree first, gain some experience, and return for the master's? Or is it worth the money to just do it all up front?

Any advice is greatly greatly appreciated!! Thank you!

-Laura

[BETSRN]

I am having a lot of fun reading all these answers...Nobody went through those schools but everybody has an opinion...And moreover, the tone and the content is what I hear most of time from RNS about Midwives..

no support, but sneaky and patronizing comments about the lack of this and the experience of that...

Ok gals..sigh I cannot wait the moment when I graduate and leave the hospitla practice... This does not make me feel being welcome at all a graduated MW (in dec)

Ginny Doula RN SNM

Midwives are not watched any more than any new nurse OR a new doctor is. In the 16 or so years I ahve been at my present facility, I have watched MANY midwifery students rotate through us (precepted by our own CNM's) Everyone proves themselves. That's just the way it is. If you cannot wait to leave the hospital environment, better keep up a good positive rapport with the hospital community because on occasion, you WILL need that back-up. No one was slamming or patronizing anyone.

The only person getting defensive seems to be YOU. It may well be your attitude that does you a disservice when you become a midwife. If you are doing the direct entry midwifery route, you will have far LESS opportunity than if you are becoming a CNM. I don't think you mentioned which type of program you are completing (or I just missed it).

And thanks to the poster who said I seem to be supportive of midwifery! I most certainly am!! My second was delivered by my practice's CNM, no meds, no IV's no nothing extra.

[BETSRN]

i'm in an accelerated BSN program which has a really good repuatation in my area for preparing students well. anyways, i was considering a direct-entry msn program. i didn't realize that so many of them are out there, and i think for some people it's a great plan, but not really for me. i thought that i wanted to get into cardiac care nursing of some sort but now that i'm doing it at one of my clinicals, i'm sort of happy i didn't commit myself to it, because i'm in love with my maternal health clinical. i never would have thought about getting into ob-gyn nursing before nursing school, and i'm happy that my clinical expereinces are exposing me to a wide variety of expereinces. with regards to the msn direct entry programs, for me, i just thought that i would rather have some experience under my belt before i go get master's degree. plus i wanted to see what i really wanted to do based off of my expereinces in clinicals and working as an rn. i also hear of many hospitals in the area paying for further schooling for their rn's and in the spirit of not racking up any more debt than i already have, i'm going to work for a hospital that will cover any further schooling for me. although lately i've been thinking, i'll probably be a very happy rn, and i'm not sure i want more school after this tough year plus the four years of college i already did for my other degree. well i'm off to my maternal health clinical. i'm watching a delivery today!

You sound like a WISE person......good to get experience under your belt. I once considered becoming a CNM. However, after so many years as an RN in L&D and seeing how hard they work and how OVERWORKED they are at times, I wouldn't be a CNM for anything. So the point I am making is that I am GLAD I waited a while and get the lay of the land to see what I wanted to do. Instead I obtained my RNC in my speciality and became a Lactation Consultant: making me more marketable (when I choose to move on).

One of our night girls commented recently that she makes MORE as a FT night nurse than the CNM's make here in the North.

GOOD LUCK!!!

[energizerbunny05]

Its funny that this has come up. We recently gained a new midwife who did a RN/Midwife program thru Yale. She has no nursing experience and it shows. I think it is a huge dis-service not to have a nursing background and be a midwife. You just don't have that....nurse thing going on. She doesn't have clinical skills or know how...although I am sure that in time this will come. In the meantime..it certainly doesn't make me feel comfy that she is on call and I know more than she does. She is also rethinking her career path now that she has had a taste of on call and the demands of the job. Makes me leary to think folks can just go into midwifery without being a nurse first. Because of my life situation at the moment I cannot get into a midwife program because I do not have BSN. They won't take me but they will take someone with a bachelors in whatever and make them a midwife. Sorry..don't mean to be rude...but I really just believe that you should be a nurse first.

patearanagua , everyone here says condescending things but when called on it they deny it and they actually do talk down to people from their high horse. A good example is the above quote and quotes from smilingeyes and others not to bring her up. do not listen to anyone here experience or not follow your heart u definetly donot want to go through life following other peoples intuition or choices. the best thing about us as a human race is that we possess individuality. Follow your heart donot let anyone bring u down your only concern should be providing excellent and safe care to your soon to be patients everyone elses opinions are part of the smaller picture or of little importance. Good luck and congrats on your upcoming graduation!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BETSRN]

patearanagua , everyone here says condescending things but when called on it they deny it and they actually do talk down to people from their high horse. A good example is the above quote and quotes from smilingeyes and others not to bring her up. do not listen to anyone here experience or not follow your heart u definetly donot want to go through life following other peoples intuition or choices. the best thing about us as a human race is that we possess individuality. Follow your heart donot let anyone bring u down your only concern should be providing excellent and safe care to your soon to be patients everyone elses opinions are part of the smaller picture or of little importance. Good luck and congrats on your upcoming graduation!!!!!!!!!!!!

As has been said before NO ONE is bringing anyone down. There is a big dose of reality that needs to be digested BEFORE one embarks on a career path, ESPECIALLY in health care. That's all anyone is saying. Those of us in OB have all seen new midwives. Until they get some experience (same as docs or new nurses), they are on pretty shakey ground. In healthcare, one cannot be too careful. Taking care of human lives (and we are talking about two in OB) is a whole lot different than (for instance) a new architect who can throw away his written plans if he doesn't like them and start over. What's done is done. In healthcare, there is LITTLE room for error. That is NOT a comforting thought.

That's all anyone is saying. Those of us in nursing have all seen the know-it-all, cavalier nurse, doc, midwife. It is NOT a pretty picture. Too much can go wrong. Humility is developed through experience. Too much confidence at first is NOT a good thing!

[BETSRN]

patearanagua , everyone here says condescending things but when called on it they deny it and they actually do talk down to people from their high horse. A good example is the above quote and quotes from smilingeyes and others not to bring her up. do not listen to anyone here experience or not follow your heart u definetly donot want to go through life following other peoples intuition or choices. the best thing about us as a human race is that we possess individuality. Follow your heart donot let anyone bring u down your only concern should be providing excellent and safe care to your soon to be patients everyone elses opinions are part of the smaller picture or of little importance. Good luck and congrats on your upcoming graduation!!!!!!!!!!!!

Energizer, you are a student and have hardly had time to get the lay of the land. Please do NOT tell us seasoned nurses who we are, what we are doing, etc. It is us who help you guys when you enter the workforce. We are here to help you and to ease the transition. Please give it a rest.

[fergus51]

No one has to listen, but it's seems silly to criticize people for offering opinions when they were ASKED FOR by the OP.

[energizerbunny05]

Energizer, you are a student and ahve hardly had time to get the lay of the land. Please do NOT tell us seasoned nurses who we are, what we are doing, etc. It is us who help you guys when you enter the workforce. We are here to help you and to ease the transition. Please give it a rest.

this is the exact problem that i see everyone here feels that because they are"experienced" no one has a valid point because god forbid we can have any good thoughts or ideas only u guys know best which i think is incorrect. And yes iam just a "student" but i am allowed no "we" are all allowed opinions of our own i repeat opinions!!! Your opinions are not any better than mine or people that decide to make their life decisions good for u that u r experienced Now ill give it a rest!!!!!!!!!

jesus my god i feel sorry for these direct entry nurses they will be eaten alive by the "seasoned nurses" just because of their choices. You should all unite not divide eachother that is why the nursing profession is where it is. Whoa!!!

[SmilingBluEyes]

I am requesting this thread be shut down. The OP is no longer participating, her questions answered. It's degraded to insults and is now pointless.

I wish everyone the best in their endeavors, whatever those may be. No one here begrudges anyone's career path, really. I am sorry it's come down to this.

To the OP, I hope you find your path and that good people help you along your way. I wish you much happiness and success.

[BETSRN]

this is the exact problem that i see everyone here feels that because they are"experienced" no one has a valid point because god forbid we can have any good thoughts or ideas only u guys know best which i think is incorrect. And yes iam just a "student" but i am allowed no "we" are all allowed opinions of our own i repeat opinions!!! Your opinions are not any better than mine or people that decide to make their life decisions good for u that u r experienced whoopeee DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now ill give it a rest!!!!!!!!!

jesus my god i feel sorry for these direct entry nurses they will be eaten alive by the "seasoned nurses" just because of their choices. You should all unite not divide eachother that is why the nursing profession is where it is. Whoa!!!

If you are this irate as a student, I shudder to think how difficult this will get for you when you are a new grad. Opinions are just that: opinions. However, solid, hands on experience will change your vision of things and your opinions will most likely be different as well.

If you just stop ranting long enough to take a step back, you will see that no one is trying to demean you. Those of us with experience are only offering our own opinions. Listening to each other is how we all learn. The nurses on my unit with over 35 years of experience STILL colaborate with the others who have less experience........because all of our observations are valid and have worth, not to mention that someone with less experience MIGHT see things in a different (and beneficial) light.

Flying off the handle as you are doing here could cause you to make some SERIOUS mistakes as a registered nurse. There is really very little room for error in nursing. Am I trying to scare you? You bet I am! I want you to be able to KEEP your license intact. Calm down, please, take a step back and also a big deep breath. Allow yourself the time to learn and digest. We have ALL walked in your shoes (as we were all students at one time) but you have NEVER walked in our shoes as a licensed nurse as yet. You are in for a rude awakening if you think no one is going to be telling you things or critiquing your practice when you are precepted as a new grad and as you continue on in your own practice after your orientation is complete.

If you are always going to think everyone is coming down on you, you're going to have a very difficult time as a new grad being precepted. Wait until the docs get on your back. That, in and of itself, is an ongoing occupational hazzard.

I don't know where you are in the student process, but please take some advice from some of us who have already been where you are. We did NOT get to be where we are by presenting the attitude that you have in the quotation above.

If you come across like that in an interview, NO ONE will want to take the chance hiring you!

Just my opinions.

[BETSRN]

a quick question what r your thoughts on residents who r allowed to deliver babies during their practice years dont they learn by the same method a newly graduated midwives would by observing and going through procedures supervised? im just curious. i am sure that these new midwives are not just thrown into deliveries i would hope they would be guided at first or supervised. just food for thought

Medicine and nursing are two different things: as are the midwifery model of birth vs. the medical model. Certainly docs are precepted, but they are precepted as docs (NOT midwives) and they have had considerably MORE training before they begin than the non-nurse college graduate who goes to a fast-track CNM program (like the ones we have been talking about here in this thread).

The guiding all get as students is NOT the same as flying on your own. That's the point we have been making all along.

[energizerbunny05]

If you are this irate as a student, I shudder to think how difficult this will get for you when you are a new grad. Opinions are just that: opinions. However, solid, hands on experience will change your vision of things and your opinions will most likely be different as well.

If you just stop ranting long enough to take a step back, you will see that no one is trying to demean you. Those of us with experience are only offering our own opinions. Listening to each other is how we all learn. The nurses on my unit with over 35 years of experience STILL colaborate with the others who have less experience........because all of our observations are valid and have worth, not to mention that someone with less experience MIGHT see things in a different (and beneficial) light.

Flying off the handle as you are doing here could cause you to make some SERIOUS mistakes as a registered nurse. There is really very little room for error in nursing. Am I trying to scare you? You bet I am! I want you to be able to KEEP your license intact. Calm down, please, take a step back and also a big deep breath. Allow yourself the time to learn and digest. We have ALL walked in your shoes (as we were all students at one time) but you have NEVER walked in our shoes as a licensed nurse as yet. You are in for a rude awakening if you think no one is going to be telling you things or critiquing your practice when you are precepted as a new grad and as you continue on in your own practice after your orientation is complete.

If you are always going to think everyone is coming down on you, you're going to have a very difficult time as a new grad being precepted. Wait until the docs get on your back. That, in and of itself, is an ongoing occupational hazzard.

I don't know where you are in the student process, but please take some advice from some of us who have already been where you are. We did NOT get to be where we are by presenting the attitude that you have in the quotation above.

If you come across like that in an interview, NO ONE will want to take the chance hiring you!

Just my opinions.

i actually edited my post but i guess u still saw it anyway. fine i guess u r right people can either take advice or not i guess i do sound irate im sorry. i do think this post should be shut down its pointless. by the way im sure i will find someone to hire me with my bsn thanks anyway

[BETSRN]

i actually edited my post but i guess u still saw it anyway. fine i guess u r right people can either take advice or not i guess i do sound irate im sorry. i do think this post should be shut down its pointless. by the way im sure i will find someone to hire me with my bsn thanks anyway

Of COURSE you will find someone to hire you with a BSN. No one said you would not be hired. It seems to me that you are reading far more into what is said than what is really intended by each specific poster. It's wonderful that you have done that (or are doing that). Be proud of what you are doing and of what you WILL accomplish.

Just please be advised that even AFTER you graduate, there will always be learning/updating to be done and mistakes to be made. You should NEVER stop learning nor should you shut out others who are trying to supply you with recommendations. As I said, there will always be those docs who are out to make our lives as difficult as possible, as there are nurses who do the same.

If your present BSN program is leading you to believe that you will be totally competant as a graduate nurse, they are leading you astray. This approach by some BSN programs has been the topic of other threads in the past. No one should be over-confident. You will "circle the drain" (an ER term) with that over-confident approach.

Just remember, all of us HCP's are there for the same purpose: continuity of (as well as quality of) patient care. You are never alone (and should not allow yourself to be). But having an antagonistic approach to everything will do you a lot of harm in the long run. In order to survive, you have to be a team player and give as well as receive.

That's all we experienced nurses have tried to do in this thread. Now, let's end this on a good note.