MA's being used as "nurses"

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Hello all! I work in a private practice office in which I am the only RN. There are several MA's and one LPN. My concern is that the MA's are referred to as "nurses". The patients often do not know that their "nurse" really isn't one. We all have the same job descriptions and duties, and I was told shortly after starting work (by a non-nurse office manager) that they consider MA's, LPN's and RN's to be the same (it is interesting, though, that I am paid an RN wage). We all are responsible for phone triage one day a week. The team leader for the "nursing staff" is also an MA!! Has anyone else run into this type of situation??

I'm in a community college program to get my A.S. in Medical Assisting. I already have a bachelor's in another field. This degree is to get my foot in the medical door, so to speak. Why would I go to Medical Assisting school instead of LPN school, when its about the same time frame? Easy answer for me.... I want to work only in doctor's offices.. no hospitals, no long night shifts, no nursing homes..... and I realize I will get paid MUCH less for that fact, but I'm okay with that.

Being a medical assistant is just one step for me towards becoming a PA (physician assistant)... I want to skip the whole nursing area and just go straight to PA. I have a few more additional classes to take and about 3000-4000 hours of medical experience to get in before I can apply to PA school. Being a back office MA qualifies as that experience.

So, for me, THOSE are the reasons I chose to become an MA instead of a nurse. In the meantime, I'm taking medical terminology, A&P, etc... right along with some future EMTs, paramedics, other MAs, nurses, etc.

If the bold print is true then, this is a GREAT benefit to you because you will not have to spend at least a full year on the sciences later on. I personally have never seen MA students taking the A&P sequence or chem/ micro/nutrition classes that the RN/PA or Paramedic students must take though. Where we are there is a "basic concepts" tech course that they take for 1 term. Not college level and there is no chem/micro etc.. required. The A&P classes for the Nursing/dental etc students is a full year and mid 200 level with prereqs attached before you can get into it. This is what a lot of folks take exception to when told by MA's they took the same prereqs. Just isn't true in the same way that most Nursing students don't take the same level of Pharm/Chem/gross Anatomy that Med students take. MA's have their own profession to be proud ofm but they are not nurses and shouldn't be referred to as such.

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Specializes in LTAC, Homehealth, Hospice Case Manager.

My MA instructor told our class to "Never say 'I'm just a MA'. Always do your best and be proud of your profession." I always did my best and was never afraid to admit I was a MA. No, I do not believe MA's should be referred to as nurses and always despised it when someone referred to me as such. No, they do not have the same training and should not be allowed to practice as such. Some Drs. take too much risk because they are unwilling to pay nurses wages. However, MA's have their place as support staff and as with any profession good ones are hard to find. I very much enjoyed my job as a MA and did not overstep my boundaries, but after 8 years found I wanted more. So I took myself back to school. I think being a MA first was good in the aspect that I will never forget where I started. I will not treat support staff the way some (not many) have treated me. I am just as proud to say I'm a Registered Medical Assistant as I will be in 5 mos. to say I'm a Registered Nurse. Just my thoughts...

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Actually, there are only a handful of states that have specific scopes of practice for MA's. It's actually pretty broad and for the most part up to the physicians discretion. This is from the Pennsylvania Code:

(a) A medical doctor may delegate to a health care practitioner or technician the performance of a medical service if the following conditions are met:

(1) The delegation is consistent with the standards of acceptable medical practice embraced by the medical doctor community in this Commonwealth. Standards of acceptable medical practice may be discerned from current peer reviewed medical literature and texts, teaching facility practices and instruction, the practice of expert practitioners in the field and the commonly accepted practice of practitioners in the field.

(2) The delegation is not prohibited by the statutes or regulations relating to other health care practitioners.

(3) The medical doctor has knowledge that the delegatee has education, training, experience and continued competency to safely perform the medical service being delegated.

(4) The medical doctor has determined that the delegation to a health care practitioner or technician does not create an undue risk to the particular patient being treated.

(5) The nature of the service and the delegation of the service has been explained to the patient and the patient does not object to the performance by the health care practitioner or technician. Unless otherwise required by law, the explanation may be oral and may be given by the physician or the physician's designee.

(6) The medical doctor assumes the responsibility for the delegated medical service, including the performance of the service, and is available to the delegatee as appropriate to the difficulty of the procedure, the skill of the delegatee and risk level to the particular patient.

(b) A medical doctor may not delegate the performance of a medical service if performance of the medical service or if recognition of the complications or risks associated with the delegated medical service requires knowledge and skill not ordinarily possessed by nonphysicians.

© A medical doctor may not delegate a medical service which the medical doctor is not trained, qualified and competent to perform.

(d) A medical doctor is responsible for the medical services delegated to the health care practitioner or technician.

(e) A medical doctor may approve a standing protocol delegating medical acts to another health care practitioner who encounters a medical emergency that requires medical services for stabilization until the medical doctor or emergency medical services personnel are available to attend to the patient.

(f) This section does not prohibit a health care practitioner who is licensed or certified by a Commonwealth agency from practicing within the scope of that license or certificate or as otherwise authorized by law. For example, this section is not intended to restrict the practice of certified registered nurse anesthetists, nurse midwives, certified registered nurse practitioners, physician assistants, or other individuals practicing under the authority of specific statutes or regulations.

Pretty much if the doc thinks you're capable of the technical task and there's no law prohibiting it (I.E. If state law deems you must be a RN to start an IV, it doesn't matter what the doc thinks)...and MA's DO work under the physicians license, not the nurses.

Lorraine

CMA, CNA

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Sorry, it took me so long to respond. I LOVE my job. I work with a great RN, super doc and 5 other MA's. We work very well as a team. We all work all positions, (front office, back office, check-in, check-out, phones, etc.) At back office, we room patients, do injections (B12, allergy, TB, routine stuff), draw blood, do EKG's, routine lab tests. Front office can be almost anything...lol. I work in a very busy family practice but we have very few peds pts. There is no "this is my job today" attitude, everyone just does whatever needs done for the most part. The pay sucks...lol, but I'd rather like going to work every day than make more money. I really wanted nursing school but the nearest one is 45 minutes away (clinicals even farther) for LPN or college and the local RN school (not college) had a two year waiting list. I didn't want to be too old to work when I got done and didn't like the idea of an 1 1/2 hour trip to clinicals or school when it's winter here in PA. I'd have to leave here at 5:30 a.m. to make school when it's bad and I still have kids at home.

Lorraine

CMA, CNA

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I'm really glad for you. Money isn't everything but I still don't understand why it pays so little considering you have a lot of responsibilities (and liabilities).

Sorry, it took me so long to respond. I LOVE my job. I work with a great RN, super doc and 5 other MA's. We work very well as a team. We all work all positions, (front office, back office, check-in, check-out, phones, etc.) At back office, we room patients, do injections (B12, allergy, TB, routine stuff), draw blood, do EKG's, routine lab tests. Front office can be almost anything...lol. I work in a very busy family practice but we have very few peds pts. There is no "this is my job today" attitude, everyone just does whatever needs done for the most part. The pay sucks...lol, but I'd rather like going to work every day than make more money. I really wanted nursing school but the nearest one is 45 minutes away (clinicals even farther) for LPN or college and the local RN school (not college) had a two year waiting list. I didn't want to be too old to work when I got done and didn't like the idea of an 1 1/2 hour trip to clinicals or school when it's winter here in PA. I'd have to leave here at 5:30 a.m. to make school when it's bad and I still have kids at home.

Lorraine

CMA, CNA

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I'm really glad for you. Money isn't everything but I still don't understand why it pays so little considering you have a lot of responsibilities (and liabilities).

Me either, Walmart pays almost as much, how sad is that? One of the gals at work has a daughter who just started at Walmart a few months ago. She started out at almost $8.00 an hour and has already gotten I think a .50 raise. I started at 8.75 an hour (recent grad) and if you count my externship, I'll have been there a year in a few weeks without a raise. Hopefully, I'll get one in July when reviews are done. I don't know if the girls are work are exaggerating or not but they keep saying something about .10 an hour raises.:uhoh21:

I made almost 3 dollars an hour more at the nursing home performing personal care tasks. Not that I think CNA's are overpaid, I think MA's are UNDERPAID. I could get a job in an office as a receptionist making more money. As it is, I perform all the tasks of a receptionist, billing personel AND perform invasive procedures on patients and make less money!

I'm just outside of Pgh., PA. I work for one of the MAJOR hospital networks here too. I do know that across the state, near Philadelphia, MA's make considerably more (cost of living perhaps?) and make excellent money in FLA. That's part of the reason I wish medical assisting would go the licensure route, too many variables in pay, scope of practice, etc. I know there would still be a cost of living difference in pay, but I don't think it would be as inconsistent as it is now.

Lorraine

CMA, CNA

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Specializes in LDRP.
Why would someone spend 12-24 months in a program to become a medical assistant? You can be an LPN in 11-12 months and an RN in 24 months. If I was going to spend 24 months going to school I would go to the RN program so that I could make twice the money while basically still doing the same work.

I agree with what you are saying, but just wanted to add a correctin: it is virtually impossible to get an RN in 24 months. Schools may say "two year program" but that is a misnomer! :uhoh3: It is always at least 5 semesters at the very shortest w/ pre reqs, etc.

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My MA schooling was 6 months classroom and clinicals and 3 months (420 hours) unpaid externship. I could never understand the rationale behind 2 years for MA either...unless you do that through a college and not a tech school so that some of the classes MAY transfer into a nursing program later.

Lorraine

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Concerned and upset...do you know the disease process, i.e. signs to look for hypoglycemia, hyperglycemia, cva, hypertention, coumadin and dilantin levels,heart attack when you are the first person the patient sees and you must triage the patient ? Can you answer patients questions about these diseases, teach them about their meds when they are taking them wrong, wound care and documentation, assisting during a biopsy, read labs for critical values, do you know when to send the patient to the ER or work them in to see the Dr. ? You should not be hired as a Nurse if you don't have the license. My MA is wonderful, I would find it difficult to get through the day without her but she never lets anyone think she'a a nurse.

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Specializes in so far urology.
Why would someone spend 12-24 months in a program to become a medical assistant? You can be an LPN in 11-12 months and an RN in 24 months. If I was going to spend 24 months going to school I would go to the RN program so that I could make twice the money while basically still doing the same work.

I guess I fit into the "why would a person waste 12 months to be a MA" thing, my situation was that I had a full time position, did not know if I could handle the blood and stuff, and the LVN, RN programs are daytime positions and I could not afford to quite my job to go to school, I have now (almost) completed my MA program 05/25/06, and am looking for a decent paying night job so that I can continue my Nursing courses.

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Hello, I was searching for PA state Regulations for Assisted living and was reading your posts. I'm currently working in an assisted living facility in PA. Most of the residents we care for are'nt even assisted living they need complete care. Wheelchairs, hospice patients ect.. I was asked to give meds when the LPN is off duty and refused, and one of the nurses said to another nurse about me " Who does she think she is refuseing" I had written her a note refuseing to give a man a potent narcotic (He's a hospice patient.) on nights the nurse may be off. I'm only a PCA some nights there is not even a nurse on duty and when she is on duty she has all 3 buildings. They allso have PCAs giving insulin even for residents who are on sliding scale.

IS anyone concerned about PCAS not haveing , We are not nurses and are not insured. If something happens the facility will only think about saving themselves. Allso if a nurse is on duty and a CNA or PCA makes a mistake won't the nurse on duty's licence be at stake? I won't give meds I don't get paid enough to do a nurses job. They don't want to pay a nurses salary so they have unskilled staff putting residents lives in danger and sending them to an 8 hour class and make them feel good about themselves by giving them a title. It's not certification if you can't use it outside of the facility that issued it to you. A nursing home would never accept that.

I guess i'm wondering if anyone is worried about doing what a nurse goes to school for 4 years to do after 8 hours of training for a quarter of the pay? (These places are saving soo much money buy not hiring nurses). And are you worried about not having malpractice insurance?) I plan on going to nursing school, and have refused to pass narcotics and other meds.)

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Hi All

I am so glad I am not the only nurse who feels this way.

I work in a very busy clinic 2 MDs 1 nurse (me) and 2 MAs that were trained in the office and have been there for 20 plus years. Please dont get me wrong they are smart and good at what they do but i just dont think it is right that they make the same as i do and don't have the education/ and are called nurses

beth

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