Ok, we've just switched doctors under our medical plan. So I go in for a routine checkup, etc. at this clinic. They tell me the nurse will be with me shortly. Of course, since I'm a student, I always ask nurses how they like their jobs etc. So I ask: You're a nurse, right? She nods. How do you like the job ... blah, blah blah ... Not once did she correct me. Then I ask where she went to school. When she names the school, I'm confused because I've never heard of it.
That's when she says, "Oh ... I'm an MA."
Then the doctor comes in, and tells me "the nurse will be with you shortly." I'm like ... what nurse? Then I find out that everybody at the "Nurses Station" is actually an MA, but everyone, from the receptionist to the doctors, are referring to these MA's as nurses. My husband, who has to go in fairly frequently, says they told him the same thing ... that these MA's were nurses.
Now, I don't know if there's actually anything wrong with this, and maybe this isn't a big deal but, it seemed really weird to me. I've been to other doctor's offices where the staff was very careful to tell me they were MA's, not nurses. Especially when I asked if they were a nurse or not.
Any thoughts? Is this allowed? Why would even doctors refer to MA's as nurses?
Ok, we've just switched doctors under our medical plan. So I go in for a routine checkup, etc. at this clinic. They tell me the nurse will be with me shortly. ...
That's when she says, "Oh ... I'm an MA."
Then the doctor comes in, and tells me "the nurse will be with you shortly." I'm like ... what nurse? ...
Now, I don't know if there's actually anything wrong with this, and maybe this isn't a big deal but, it seemed really weird to me. I've been to other doctor's offices where the staff was very careful to tell me they were MA's, not nurses. Especially when I asked if they were a nurse or not.
Any thoughts? Is this allowed? Why would even doctors refer to MA's as nurses?
Dear Student Nurse,
First of all, good for you to study to be a nurse! Keep it up! Also, good for
you to be sensitive to the different roles people in health care have. You
will soon find that some people let it go to their heads, and that can cause
nasty problems. Get your RN license and be proud!
As to your question, there is definitely something wrong with an MA
misrepresenting him/herself as a nurse. First of all, it's an insult to actual
nurses who studied (like you) and worked to earn that title. It also (in my
experience) has caused them to think better of themselves than they ought
in some cases. In those cases, I wonder why they don't make the effort
to earn the title and license to be an actual nurse if that's what they want
to be.
Another reason it is wrong is that nurses have authority and responsibilities,
not to mention liabilities, that MAs do not have. I'm sure you have
already learned that. I feel that's very important, and should not be
abused, regardless of how sly a manner.
To mislead a patient into thinking someone is a nurse deceives them into
conceding trust that that person has not earned. The doctor you mentioned
is just being careless and lazy, assuming you're too stupid too know the
difference. As his/her patient, I hope you know you have the right to
advocate for yourself and correct him. Don't let the "sick role"
intimidate you.
When I am a patient, I always question a doctor if based on my knowledge
and experience doubt what he is doing or diagnosing, or overlooking, and I
don't let MAs make mistakes. If I feel like it, I'll tell them why I might be
second-guessing them. Usually they go "oh, ok". Rarely, the doctor will be
enthusiastic and start talking the lingo. Most often, they don't really care.
Sure but do these people know the rational behind their actions and interventions? and do they have the training to possess the critical thinking skills they need to individualize their care, especially in the case of an emergency?
I dont think that it is right that a MA has the right to administer IM injections and other meds. Someone said that they started IVs. PEOPLE LOOSE THEIR ARMS DUE TO IVs! and ABG's?!?!?!??!?!?!? OMG! I WOULD FLIP! That is so risky.
I think some doctors just see MAs as "cost effective" nurse alternatives
if you know what I mean. If a doctor allows an MA to do something
beyond their authority and education, the doctor is ultimately responsible
(although both should be disciplined if something goes wrong), and of
course the MA shouldn't accept such tasks, but that's not the real
world.
It is risky, as you say, yet so few are willing to rock the boat.
My state has 5 times more MA programs than Lpn programs. That is why so many people do become MAs. Actually the MA program is 60 hours of credit and the LPN is 52 hours of credit. I keep asking why not use the classroom space and clinical space to begin more LPN programs rather than MA programs. I suspect the profit margin for MA programs is higher. You know lots of people put on lab coats and scrubs and the general public has no idea they have little or no training. Even if they wear a nametag and have initials they don't understand what they mean. I ask what they stand for and often find out the person has no training.
What state do you live in? In California, they say MA is good experience,
but counts nothing towards becoming an RN (nothing transfers from an
MA program to RN). Being an LVN (LPN) is a different story and it
does count. We have a 30-hour bridge program, that I think is good
in California only. Also in CA, a CNA or equivalent training is required before
entering an RN program (at least via the Community College ADN route).
I have seen practices where the MAs call themselves "physician's assistants"- I think that is even worse- because they have prescribing power (real ones do anyway)....
That is super-scary. Nurse practioners have prescribing powers to.
I think this all comes down to the stereotype that still exists in the
minds of many: doctor=man=powerful-healer; nurse=woman=servant-girl
As a man who respectfully takes no crap from doctors (male or female),
and is the servant of the patient (if you know what I mean) I intend to help
I'm an MA and I'm always mistaken for a nurse I always correct the patients but they do't get it. I'll always will get so what your just like a nurse. I agrre a nurse has alot more schooling but I gues that's why i'm in nursing school I feel nursin is my calling.
It's a shame that people are trying to take credit for being a nurse and a shame that MD's are unwilling to give nurses the proper respect for their title. I have no problem with Medical assistants, however they should not be misleading in their job title. I am scheduled to take my boards for the second time next week (wish me luck) and personally I feel that I am closer to being called a nurse than a medical assistant. As I understand it is illegal to practice as a nurse or call yourself a nurse if you are not, so I will correct people if they refer to me as a nurse and inform them that in order to be considered a nurse, one must pass the NCLEX. So no matter how close your job description is to being a nurse or how much nursing education you have, it is a dishonor and illegal to pretend to be a nurse and unless you have passed the NCLEX or are a new grad nurse who has not taken the NCLEX and failed... you are not a nurse.
Any position is important in a health care setting. I am irritated, however, by those who refer to non-nurses as nurses. It took lots of hard work & time to attain the earned title of Registered Nurse! What others achieve should be recognized in it's own right. I worked with a CRNA who defended that idea to a MD who stated that surgical techs were the same as nurses. His answer? "Then you can call me doctor since I do the same work as an anesthesiologist." The surgeon was incensed, "But you're not a doctor." :stone Bingo, Doc!
I can really get on my soap box with this one.:chair:
___________________________
Good analogy by the CRNA. I love your icon under chair...looks like me! HA!
Also in CA, a CNA or equivalent training is required before
entering an RN program (at least via the Community College ADN route).
Just FYI: Some ADN programs require CNA training as a pre-requisite, but not all of them do. It is not a statewide requirement, but a discretionary thing which varies between schools.
Specializes in ICU/ER/Med-Surg/Case Management/Manageme.
Morning, everyone! I rarely post in these forums, but this thing about MA's identifying themselves, or allowing an inappropriate assumption as to their credentials, is a sore point with me. I admit to not having read all the responses, but those I did read were right on target with some excellent points being raised.
I spent too many long years, too much money, and sometimes felt as if I was sweating too much blood to obtain my BSN, and I will never allow someone that is not licensed to midrepresent themselves to me or anyone else.
I had the same experience in my doctors office - the MA introducing herself as Dr. So-and-So's nurse. My response, "How nice to meet you. Are you an RN or LVN?" "Oh, I'm a medical assistant." Wow! I just sat there wondering how many times this person had called me with lab results, phoned in Rx's, etc. Very nicely, I informed her that she could not offer herself as a "nurse" and following examination by the physician, I had a lengthy discussion with her, too, including the fact that I believed the State Board of Nursing the Joint Commission might have some interest in the situation. She was inititally a bit argumentative, but I "explained" that I was certain she (and her state licensing agency and the AMA) might have a less than positive reaction to me, with my 25+ years nursing experience, "implying" to others that I am a physician, a degree that she had worked long and hard to attain.
Sorry...this is my soapbox. Every licensed nurse, RN or LVN, needs to take assertive action when made aware of these types of situations. As others have pointed out, we have a body of knowledge that MA's do not possess. How many of you have had friends and/or family say negative things about nurses..."That nurse didn't know what she was doing...that nurse was sloppy..." Or similar comments. Haven't you ever wondered if those were actually nurses or MA's (or CNA's, etc.)?
All states have laws on their books about the licensing and identification of staff simply because the public (our patients) have the right to know the level of expertise of the person responsible for their care and treatment. Here in Texas, we get a newsletter from the Board of Nurse Examiners. Every issue contains articles (with photos when when available" of those that have worked as "IMPOSTERS" - meaning they have lied about their licensure. Yes, they have generally provided fake credentials. Nonetheless, charges are filed with the State Attorney General. It is a crime.
We have enough image problems to overcome in our chosen profession. Please, please, please...do not let this type of misrepresentation slip by. Those of us that are licensed owe it to our profession to take a stand against it. I would strongly recommend that when (notice I did not say IF) you are faced with this, you take a few moments and talk to the physician about the situation. It can be done nicely and with respect, but be prepared to defend your profession with factual information. Obtain a copy of your state's Nurse Practice Act. If necessary, contact your Board and simply ask for the reference on the topic of misrepresentation.
Words have meaning. And the word nurse implies the achievement of certain levels of education and expertise - something we should all be proud of and willing (and able) to defend.
Specializes in ICU/ER/Med-Surg/Case Management/Manageme.
Well, maybe "doesn't know the difference" is too strong...a lot of offices do prefer to use MAs if given the choice. MA programs are designed to train folks to do clinical and administrative work in ambulatory care settings, incluidng histories, vitals, injections, EKGs, phlebotomy, etc. They have no acute care or LTC training. They work strictly under a physician's direction. In a practical sense, they function in an office setting essentially as a nurse would, and work much cheaper. And, as previously noted, their educational credentials are the same as a lot of nurses.
I guess I'm still on this soapbox, and shaking my head in amazement, so excuse me...but please show me where the educational credentials of a MA "are the same as a lot of nurses."
As for working cheaper...you are correct. And that has led to the deterioration of our profession, and in great part to the the reason there is a nursing shortage today. My knowledge, my skills, my expertise, my experience, my educational foundation is valuable and not something a MA possesses. I've spent 25 years in this profession and can only earn $22-$25 bucks an hour (working nights and weekends) for that exact reason...MA's are hired, allowed to function in a professional role and "work much cheaper!" Wow! Really says a lot about our profession, doesn't it?
And I believe it was Cadillac...you mentioned this was your soapbox...I stand next to you - 100%.
Just FYI: Some ADN programs require CNA training as a pre-requisite, but not all of them do. It is not a statewide requirement, but a discretionary thing which varies between schools.
And some schools (like the ones in this are) 'encourage' CNA training beforehand.
mrnurse2u
16 Posts
Dear Student Nurse,
First of all, good for you to study to be a nurse! Keep it up! Also, good for
you to be sensitive to the different roles people in health care have. You
will soon find that some people let it go to their heads, and that can cause
nasty problems. Get your RN license and be proud!
As to your question, there is definitely something wrong with an MA
misrepresenting him/herself as a nurse. First of all, it's an insult to actual
nurses who studied (like you) and worked to earn that title. It also (in my
experience) has caused them to think better of themselves than they ought
in some cases. In those cases, I wonder why they don't make the effort
to earn the title and license to be an actual nurse if that's what they want
to be.
Another reason it is wrong is that nurses have authority and responsibilities,
not to mention liabilities, that MAs do not have. I'm sure you have
already learned that. I feel that's very important, and should not be
abused, regardless of how sly a manner.
To mislead a patient into thinking someone is a nurse deceives them into
conceding trust that that person has not earned. The doctor you mentioned
is just being careless and lazy, assuming you're too stupid too know the
difference. As his/her patient, I hope you know you have the right to
advocate for yourself and correct him. Don't let the "sick role"
intimidate you.
When I am a patient, I always question a doctor if based on my knowledge
and experience doubt what he is doing or diagnosing, or overlooking, and I
don't let MAs make mistakes. If I feel like it, I'll tell them why I might be
second-guessing them. Usually they go "oh, ok". Rarely, the doctor will be
enthusiastic and start talking the lingo. Most often, they don't really care.
Oh well.
It's...
MrNurse2U