Mandatory Overtime Agreement in New York!

1199SEIU RN · Jun 20, 2008

In the paper it states that this law will be enacted before they leave this sesssion, but that it won't be effective for a year. This will allow institutions to get ready staff wise. Is this correct?

yes, this is entirely correct. The law will become effective July 1, 2009. Plenty of time for employers to beef up their staffing strategies!

1199SEIU RN · Jun 20, 2008

They do that now. A few months back the county decided they needed to save money. So now we can work -2 on the day shift before they will bring in agency or mandate. It is a rare that we are fully staffed. Now they are looking at the night shift to see if they can justify only having one LPN on our unit. :angryfire Someone needs their head examined at my facility.
Although I agree we need a ratio law...I'll take no mandation right now. I prefer not to have to work another 8 hours after working 8 hours short.

Amen to that!

Talino · Jun 20, 2008

doesn't mandatory overtime occur more often when short staffed on the next tour? in which case, it would be an exception, as in #4 (underline, numbers, and bold font are just mine for emphasis)...

in particular, the legislation will prohibit health care facilities from requiring nurses to work more than their regularly scheduled work hours, but does not place a specific cap on the number of hours that can be worked per day or week. the bill contains exceptions to the mandatory overtime prohibition for the following situations:

1. natural or other types of disasters that increase the need for nursing services,

2. a federal, state or county declaration of emergency,

3. a nurse engaged in an ongoing medical or surgical procedure,

4. when necessary to provide safe patient care where no other alternative staffing is available; and

5. a nurse voluntarily agrees to work overtime.

http://www.ny.gov/governor/press/press_0619084.html

1199SEIU RN · Jun 21, 2008

doesn't mandatory overtime occur more often when short staffed on the next tour? in which case, it would be an exception, as in #4 (underline, numbers, and bold font are just mine for emphasis)...
in particular, the legislation will prohibit health care facilities from requiring nurses to work more than their regularly scheduled work hours, but does not place a specific cap on the number of hours that can be worked per day or week. the bill contains exceptions to the mandatory overtime prohibition for the following situations:
1. natural or other types of disasters that increase the need for nursing services,
2. a federal, state or county declaration of emergency,
3. a nurse engaged in an ongoing medical or surgical procedure,
4. when necessary to provide safe patient care where no other alternative staffing is available; and
5. a nurse voluntarily agrees to work overtime.
http://www.ny.gov/governor/press/press_0619084.html

here is a link to the actual bill language, which may make it clearer than the governor's press release does:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=a11711&sh=t

an important consideration is the following bill language:

"for the purposes of this

38 paragraph, "emergency", including an unanticipated staffing emergency,

39 is defined as an unforeseen event that could not be prudently planned

40 for by an employer and does not regularly occur;"

so, aside from disaster type emergencies, an emergency is "an unforeseen event that could not be prudently planned for by an employer and does not regularly occur."

so, if the next shift is regularly short staffed to the point that nurses are mandated to stay--that will have to change by law. if the employer has left an unfilled hole in the schedule--that does not meet the definition for an unforeseen event.

as for the specific hours a nurse can work, nurses typically work shifts of 8, 10, or 12 hours usually, so a capped work day of 8 hours is not set in this bill. neither are nurses prohibited from voluntarily working overtime. they are, of course, responsible for their own safe functioning.

i hope that is helpful.

Talino · Jun 21, 2008

When an employer already anticipates short staffing on a given day/shift and willfully left the schedule as it is, the intent is to leave you short, primarily to cut cost. Mandating an overtime when that day comes is nothing but pure incompetence and not cost effective. So, before I rebuke the employer for mandating the overtime, is it because of an unforeseen event or is it because of a known understaffing practice? But then again, without the nurse/patient ratio law, "understaffing" can just be rebutted in many different ways. Shouldn't that have been passed first?

1199SEIU RN · Jun 21, 2008

When an employer already anticipates short staffing on a given day/shift and willfully left the schedule as it is, the intent is to leave you short, primarily to cut cost. Mandating an overtime when that day comes is nothing but pure incompetence and not cost effective. So, before I rebuke the employer for mandating the overtime, is it because of an unforeseen event or is it because of a known understaffing practice? But then again, without the nurse/patient ratio law, "understaffing" can just be rebutted in many different ways. Shouldn't that have been passed first?

No, because mandation is how they would have reached the staffing numbers.

loricatus · Jun 21, 2008

When an employer already anticipates short staffing on a given day/shift and willfully left the schedule as it is, the intent is to leave you short, primarily to cut cost. Mandating an overtime when that day comes is nothing but pure incompetence and not cost effective. So, before I rebuke the employer for mandating the overtime, is it because of an unforeseen event or is it because of a known understaffing practice? But then again, without the nurse/patient ratio law, "understaffing" can just be rebutted in many different ways. Shouldn't that have been passed first?

I agree with you 100%.

I just left a place that never mandated OT; but, when short would just double a nurses' district from 6 patients to 12. No OT needed from the prior shift and an effective cost cutting measure that placed the nurse in jeopardy of losing his/her license. Mandatory ratios are far more important than the OT law because this type of abuse will run rampant once the OT law passes; and, the high ratios will then be blamed on the OT law, rather than management manipulation. Personally, I think that management must have lobbied to make the OT law happen, because it seems to be more beneficial for them than it is for the floor nurses.

BTW, the ratios I described was at a 1099 facility.

kcochrane · Jun 21, 2008

I think it really depends on the facility. My facility loved to use mandation and used if freely and still the ratio levels were horrendous - especially for the CNAs and LPNs when they did patient care. I work in LTC, but my floor is really subacute. Try passing meds to 20 patients that have trachs, g or j tubes and are polypharmacy. You have no techs to do bgs, vital signs and other procedures. Added on are dressings, trach care and other procdures that need to be done because they can't afford to hire a treatment nurse. And you have to chart on every one of those patients. Now do that for 16 hours, no thanks.

We need to start somewhere. I'll take this and hopefully I can get my RN soon, joins a nurse's union and help fight for a ratio law.

Now a heated question. :lol Couldn't a ratio law make if worse for nurses, especially in the hospital setting? I heard a lot of facilities make up for the lower ratios by getting rid of techs/CNA so nurses had to do everything? Or was that rumour?

And how do ratio laws effect LTC or do they?

loricatus · Jun 21, 2008

I think it really depends on the facility. My facility loved to use mandation and used if freely and still the ratio levels were horrendous - especially for the CNAs and LPNs when they did patient care. I work in LTC, but my floor is really subacute. Try passing meds to 20 patients that have trachs, g or j tubes and are polypharmacy. You have no techs to do bgs, vital signs and other procedures. Added on are dressings, trach care and other procdures that need to be done because they can't afford to hire a treatment nurse. And you have to chart on every one of those patients. Now do that for 16 hours, no thanks.
We need to start somewhere. I'll take this and hopefully I can get my RN soon, joins a nurse's union and help fight for a ratio law.
Now a heated question. :lol Couldn't a ratio law make if worse for nurses, especially in the hospital setting? I heard a lot of facilities make up for the lower ratios by getting rid of techs/CNA so nurses had to do everything? Or was that rumour?
And how do ratio laws effect LTC or do they?

Yes, I heard that in California (as far as I know is the only state to pass ratio laws) aides were reduced. But, with a 1:4 ratio, instead of 1:12 it is a lot easier to do without an aide. BTW, the aides (where I just left) were so overworked that I had to do the majority of what was considerd their work, anyway.

I agree that they needed to start somewhere; but, if it was really in the best interest of the floor nurse (be it LTC, acute care, etc) ratios should have come before the OT law. Think about it, you wouldn't be having responsiblity for 20 patients, with all that it entails (above described) if ratio laws were passed. 16 hours with, let's say, a mandated 1:6 ratio may be more bearable than 8 hours with 20 patients.

1199SEIU RN · Jun 21, 2008

Quote: "Mandatory ratios are far more important than the OT law because this type of abuse will run rampant once the OT law passes; and, the high ratios will then be blamed on the OT law, rather than management manipulation. "

***************************************************************************

In that case, I imagine you will take an active role in lobbying your state legislators to pass the "safe staffing for quality patient care" act, which includes ratios. That would be great.

Be prepared to contend with firece opposition from the Hospital Association of New York State (HANYS) and from the Greater New York Healthcare Association (GNYHA), both of whom fought the mandatory overtime bill tooth and nail for 8 years.

kcochrane · Jun 22, 2008

Honestly I think this is an argument similar to the question "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" :lol

I think just like the mandation law, facilities will find a way to work around the ratio law. It will be great if we get both..but for now I'm happy with what many nurses have accomplished for us. Check with me next year and see if I feel the same way.

1199SEIU RN, as an LPN, what group can I join that might help in these areas.

loricatus · Jun 22, 2008

Quote: "Mandatory ratios are far more important than the OT law because this type of abuse will run rampant once the OT law passes; and, the high ratios will then be blamed on the OT law, rather than management manipulation. "
***************************************************************************
In that case, I imagine you will take an active role in lobbying your state legislators to pass the "safe staffing for quality patient care" act, which includes ratios. That would be great.
Be prepared to contend with firece opposition from the Hospital Association of New York State (HANYS) and from the Greater New York Healthcare Association (GNYHA), both of whom fought the mandatory overtime bill tooth and nail for 8 years.

Truthfully, I think you can shave off years by utilizing public/patient education & a political-type ad campaign. Some strategic press releases here and there won't hurt either-media loves a juicy story to hang onto. Hey, even the development & distribution of a ratio scorecard (by hospital and department) could be utilized. Once the public realizes what it means to their safety, or that of a loved one, to be a patient in an understaffed hospital, the outrage will push legislation far better than nurses with placards can do.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for the lobbying effort. However, it should be in adjunct to a public awareness campaign. And, bear in mind, patient education begins at the bedside-although, this type of education may not increase the hospital's Press Gainey score.