Male RN-assist with pelvic exams?

[walnuttree91]

I'm a male RN, who left ED nursing ten years ago, and just returned. When I left, male nurses had nothing to do with "intimate" procedures on female patients. At my new ER, I have been told that I am to insert foleys and assist male MDs with pelvic exams on female patients.

If anything, I think that all the sexual abuse news should make it even more imperative that I avoid doing these things. Some of the male MDs agree with me. Your opinions?

[kjnorris]

Well said runningfool i have female doc that doesn't bother me. I think at some point you need to look at what you do at work your work! i don't get all goofy then the patient won't feel akward either. Key word of day Professionalism!:stone

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

And honestly, after reading some of the posts on here, my opinions and feelings are reinforced.

Somehow this doesn't surprise me, especially when you have some posters talking about how it affects their libido. Can't blame you.

[Nurse-To-Be-Joy]

Somehow this doesn't surprise me, especially when you have some posters talking about how it affects their libido. Can't blame you.

I have been very offended reading some of the male replies to this post. Are we women just that horrifying to examine down there that it makes a man not want to have sex? Gee, thanks for the boost of self-confidence. I really don't think men with that attitude should be working as nurses with women. How callous.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

I really don't think men with that attitude should be working as nurses with women.

I really don't think that anyone who can't separate theri libido from their career should even be in healthcare.

[nadja9]

I really don't think that anyone who can't separate theri libido from their career should even be in healthcare.

Right on, Marie_LPN. I couldn't agree more.

[nadja9]

First off - RunningFool, Marie_LPN, and Nurse to be Joy: I agree with all of you, wholeheartedly.

Second, professionalism is the key to ANY profession, but we also have those who are UNPROFESSIONAL that exist in every career field. This includes nursing, whether or not the nurse is male or female, whether we choose to accept it or not. I think this is a particularly difficult issue to digest and confront when needed do to the nature of healthcare, period. Not to be the master of the obvious here, but it's people that are in need of care, not copy machines in need of a tune up.

That being said, there are a few realities I would like some to really think about and explore (I mean research here). I would also like to preempt this by saying the following may touch a few nerves if read incorrectly, so please read the following understanding only what is being said without adding implication. If there is something that doesn't make sense, asking a question is better than making an accusation. Also know that the following is based on the research as well as practice, not simply some opinion based on my life alone, or some story I read about.

Okay...on to it............

As stated in another post, it is a fact that most perpatrators of sexual offenses are male. It is also true that the victims of such perpatration are largely female. Lifetime risk of sexual abuse/assault: 1 in 3. Of course, males, usually children, are victimized, and by other males, and this is just as tragic. And unfortunately, this number is growing. No child or adult, male or female, should ever have to endure the pain of that kind of violence. However, for the sake of statistics, time, and the focus of the thread, it is most often male perpetration against females.

Add to that another fact: Most females over the course of their lives have experienced or will experience some form of sexual harassment. It may be at work, school, shopping, or just gasing up the car. The fact is that it is prevalent.

Now, let's add yet another fact. Most victims (this is a statistic) know/knew the perpetrator. Childhood sexual abuse, is not most often commited by a stepparent (although they are up there) as many believe but by the natural parent, family relatives, and family friends. In other words, people who are in charge of their care, wellbeing, and should be trusted. Furthermore, most rapes are commited by those known to the victim. (Prevalence of date rape , a statistic anyone?) Also, most stranger rapes are committed by someone who has been watching the victim, knows her routine, whether or not she has a dog, what time she runs in the morning, etc. (just so you know, sisters)

Now, put all of the above together. You have, let's say 15 patients on the floor that are female. Statistically, 5 of them have been the victims of sexual abuse/assault, and nearly all have been sexually harassed. By men. Now, let's throw in the very likelihood that this was perpetrated by someone she knew and trusted.

So then, is it still so hard to understand the potential issues surrounding this patient? Given the above, think about how having a male nurse, particularly without the presence of another female professional, whom she does not know, could upset a patient faced with a pelvic.

I could write a book on this issue, but I am hoping some of you are thinking just a bit deeper regarding this issue. There is soooooooooooooooo much more I could say. I just hope this expands some understanding. And believe me, the above doesn't begin to cover it.

I know that there are many brilliant, skilled, compassionate male nurses who really have the calling. I applaud you all. But when we are dealing with such intimate issues between the sexes, we have to make sure we educate ourselves well and truly try to have a better understanding of what another may be going through that we cannot see. I believe to really take the best care of someone, we have to treat the whole person.

Perhaps if women were overall treated as complete humans first instead being scrutinized for our sexual worth, we wouldn't have to ask the question in the first place. Another thing I could spend a zillion hours on unfortunately......

Peace to all of you,

Nadja - a former antiviolence educator.

[bakruber]

Very good input from everyone. I think we are talking mostly about routine pelvic exams that have to do with pelvic pain or lady partsl bleeding. I certainly can understand that a victim of violence such as a rape or assault would probably prefer a female nurse. But, the routine stuff could be done by any nurse if presented to the patient properly.

Arnie

[nadja9]

Very good input from everyone. I think we are talking mostly about routine pelvic exams that have to do with pelvic pain or lady partsl bleeding. I certainly can understand that a victim of violence such as a rape or assault would probably prefer a female nurse. But, the routine stuff could be done by any nurse if presented to the patient properly.

Arnie

Yes, but your last sentence assumes that you know someone's history. And that's not always possible, even with a thorough hx because those things (childhood sexual abuse, rapre, etc) rely on self disclosure. No one would (or should) argue against a PE post assault should be done by a female, but even in a routine PE, you can't possibly know everyone's history ( for a bazillion reasons), which is why we need to be sensitive to the preferences of patients when involving this kind of care. We simply cannot know all of the varying reasons for such discomfort, but we do have an obligation to be respectful of our patients and sensitive to their needs. It's just part of advocacy, really.

It goes both ways, too. I have had a few young male patients that were very uncomfortable with certain types of care from me and I could tell right away. I always offered to get a male if that would make them more comfortable. (Then, of course, I have the perverted patients, and honestly, usually older, that I have had to switch off with others, but that's another thread.)

Anyhoo, that fact is that theoretically it shouldn't matter who is giving care as long as they are skilled and professional and obviously licensed to do what they are doing. But the reality is that, for reasons outside of our professional control and sometimes understanding, it matters to some patients. We may not be able to change that but we can become better professionals and better people by reaching our own greater understanding of what those issues may be.

Happy Friday All! Have a wonderful and safe weekend!

Nadja

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

Just a question--why would it matter if you had a male nurse doing your rape kit? Unless the male nurse in question was your rapist, why would it suddenly be uncomfortable?

I've heard this idea before but I've never quite understood it.

As the patient probably does not want an gyn exam at a time like that at all, it is in our best interest to provide a caregiver that they are more comfortable with. There have been women, abused by women that have requested male caregivers.

The last thing a person that is sexually assaulted, is someone of the rapists' gender, assisting with a wretchedly uncomfortable (painful for some of us) exam, exposing them to more pain, adding more insult to injury.

I think the real clincher is that need to pluck out X number of pubic hairs (by the root)...is that still done?

For some us though, it is repeated thoughtless comments by a few male caregivers in the past that also, making us seek care from MDs of our own gender.

[Woodrow]

This comment is so offensive! If this were what men were thinking when I permit them to do my pelvic exam, than I would never NEVER want a man present durring my exam. Fortunetely, the male nurses I work with are much more professional than the person who posted this message.

Th hypocrisy of this thread is amazing. Read this thread:

https://allnurses.com/forums/f18/funniest-injury-you-have-ever-seen-70363.html

What's funny is injuries to the scrotum, or member (especially if it's small, even funnier if it's small because it has been maimed or blown away):rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Or how about how funny it was when a teenager tried unsuccesfully to commit suicide several times?:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: You've got something wrong if you don't see the humor in that! It's not as if you women aren't "sizing up" every guy you deal with, or pay special attention to the especially good-looking patients. There seems to be plenty of professionalism lacking among female caregivers as well.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

It's not as if you women aren't "sizing up" every guy you deal with, or pay special attention to the especially good-looking patients.

Actually, no most of us aren't. Work is work and stays there.

Why anyone would think romantically about a patient is beyond me, but then, I work Hemo/Onco.

[Phat Nygen]

Actually, no most of us aren't. Work is work and stays there.

Why anyone would think romantically about a patient is beyond me, but then, I work Hemo/Onco.

I used to date girl who was a CNA at a convalescent hospital. Some of the patients were young, but unable to care for themselves due to injury, etc. From listening to her and some of her co-workers, it seems like they knew some of the male's anatomy better than the patients themselves, and that some "special" patients recieved more "thorough" care than others. Women are as bad or worse than men, but like to pretend that they aren't.