LVN Vs. RN?

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Can anyone tell me the difference between LVN and RN? Is LVN in demand just like RNs? How much do they usually make and what exactly do they do? Thanks!!!

In my state, an LPN has to work under the supervision of an MD or an RN. So...there you go...that's my point of reference.

The Veridican

In every state I've worked in as an LPN/LVN that is how the language of NPA is written. But it's not that simple.

Take a standard Med/Surg floor with 3 RN's, 3LPN's and one RN charge. All 6 of the staff nurses are technically "supervised" by the RN charge, RN or LPN. The LPN's on any given Med/Surg floor are not supervised any more than the RN's are, and they certainly are not assistants. They may need the RN charge to push a drug or something every now and then depending on scope of practice limitations, other than that, basically function in the same job capacity.

If they are supposed to be merely assistants, then as a former LPN/LVN, who was I assisiting for 7 years?

Will those RN's please stand up because I've never met you before.

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By the way, LPNs cannot be members of the ANA. Do LPNs have their own governing body?

Veridican

LPN's have an equivalent to ANA, but ANA is hardly a "governing body" of any kind.

If you are a member of ,or advocate for, the positions of ANA, then I hope that you are a BSN RN because that is what their agenda includes. They strongly advocate for the BSN RN being the minimum for the title of RN.

And just the sheer fact that they basically ignore LPN's and don't mention them in hardly any of their position statements should tell you something.

It's not a matter that LPN's cannot be members, I would hope that LPN's would not want to be members of ANA, I certainly do not.

You have a lot to learn about the different and unique levels of nursing.

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Furthermore, aren't we all really the assistants to the pt's?? Isn't that why we went into nursing? Whether you are an RN or LPN we need to work together as a team. Consider your CNA's, yes in their title they have assistant, but I can tell you right now, without them, there is no way I would be able to do my job. They assist me yes, but I assist them when I have the extra time (which isn't often) or when they need help. It's all about your pt's and working together to do what is best for them. There are excellent LPN's that can run circles around an RN, just like there are RN's who can run circles around fellow RN"s or LPN's. There are lazy nurses also, with RN and lPN behind their name. :uhoh3:

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LPNs do function within a scope of practice. They are recognized by boards of nursing across the country as a "nurse". Their scope of practice is more limited than an RN and most states do say LPNs work under the supervision of an RN. RNs work under RNs also like someone else said....LPNs are an important part of the healthcare system! Their IS a difference in education regardless of what others think. I just finished a bridge program and see the difference that I was oblivious to before. All of the pre-reqs and more in depth nursing courses made me see why RNs should be compensated for their extra time in school as well as their added responsibilities. The bottom line is that LPNs and RNs are both recognized as "nurses" and play an important role in the healthcare delivery system. LPNs who wish to further their education to advance in their career or for whatever reason can through several different types of bridge programs. Most schools recognize that LPNs have a good knowledge base and let them in on the second year of RN training. There will always be the LPN v. RN but no matter what be proud of your accomplishments....not everyone can do our job!

Karen

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LPNs do function within a scope of practice. They are recognized by boards of nursing across the country as a "nurse". Their scope of practice is more limited than an RN and most states do say LPNs work under the supervision of an RN. RNs work under RNs also like someone else said....LPNs are an important part of the healthcare system! Their IS a difference in education regardless of what others think. I just finished a bridge program and see the difference that I was oblivious to before. All of the pre-reqs and more in depth nursing courses made me see why RNs should be compensated for their extra time in school as well as their added responsibilities. The bottom line is that LPNs and RNs are both recognized as "nurses" and play an important role in the healthcare delivery system. LPNs who wish to further their education to advance in their career or for whatever reason can through several different types of bridge programs. Most schools recognize that LPNs have a good knowledge base and let them in on the second year of RN training. There will always be the LPN v. RN but no matter what be proud of your accomplishments....not everyone can do our job!

Karen

Karen, I do respect your opinion here, and the others as well, but yours comes from experience. You've seen both sides. I think I can understand that it's not about "assistant" as much as it is about scope of practice. I see that they are two different types of nurses.

My view has been slanted because I work on a floor (cardiology/ICU stepdown) and only RNs are used along with MSTs (multi-skilled techs). And it's the only place I've worked as a nurse. The scope of practice required necessitates RNs, but this is not the case on other floors, nor is it the case in many settings, i.e. home health, hospice, LTC, etc.

And to others, I don't think this string is beating a dead horse. I have changed how I view things as a result, so that is why it has been going on. And it will go on again, because it's a subject people like to talk about--just like BSN vs ADN. I haven't seen any examples of insults, or any examples of flaming, etc. I think this is a good topic that has been well handled.

The Veridican

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Yall are executing the messenger without hearing the message. I don't think (my interpretation) that he's putting down those who are not RNs, let alone not MDs. However, he is correctly stating the eschelon that these levels of authority take. I do think that some of those titles are lateral to others...but overall, the idea is sound.

I am an RN...I don't consider myself as "assistant" to the physician...but indeed, what I do is rolled into what the physician will eventually do/order to happen.

MD

RN/PA/NP (depending on the setting)

OT/PT/RD (depending on the setting)

LPN/LVN

CNA

then other ancillary departments as required for pt care or running the facility.

Yes, I see what you mean by one profession rolling into another. I see modern healthcare divided into diagnosis and treatment of the patient and care of the patient. The MD being the basis of dx and tx and the nurse being the basis for care. Nurses must have MDs and MDs must have nurses. All other feilds of health care have to fall into one of those categories and assist in that category.

So then, what is a nurse? And with that I think I will start a new post.

Take care

Veridican

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nursepenny

I am so happy to see your post. I get really nauseated every time I read a BSN's post about how superior they are to ADNs and LPNs. I am nothing at this point, just entering nursing, but the sickening bragging banter that I see here by some of the RNs with "superior" attitude has made me want to have NOTHING to do with a BSN Degree. I am so tired of seeing all of the insults thrown by many BSNs to ADNs and LPN/LVNs. There was a thread here: "What do you think the biggest problem in nursing is?" I think it is the "BS" attitude that I see in action by many BSNs. It is uncalled for.

By the way, I a currently considering an LPN degree program! It is set up to allow an LPN to continue through to ADN and then BSN, but I really don't think that I want to be associated with what I see to be such caustic behavior.

I humbly beg your pardon! I am not an LPNA (licensed practical nursing assistant). I am an LPN (Licensed Practical NURSE). Period.

I work in acute care. I work ICU/SDU. I can do anything the RN does, with the one exception of 1 HTA each shift. We do complete HTA q 4 hrs here. The RN has to do 1 assessment on LPN patients in 12 hours. While the RN does my assessments, I do her HTA's. I also chart, give IV push meds and narcotics, hang blood, admit pts, monitor telemetry, insert foley cath's, monitor and care for central lines and CVP lines, call the doctors for orders, start IV's, care for vent and monitor vent patients, etc... Oops forgot to mention, I am ACLS certified.

I would say there may be 5 minutes per patient, I am not in my patient's primary nurse with all the duties that entails.

As far as pay, I have been a nurse for 8 1/2 yrs. I make as much/hr as a new entry RN.

I went to school 18 months for my LPN degree ( yes, it is a degree, and yes I went to college to obtain it). I studied anatomy, chemistry, math, english, history, political science, physcology, microbiology, the whole nine yards.

I had 700 clinical hours when I graduated. I forget the number of class lecture hours.

I'm sorry. I don't usually respond to these type of remarks about LPN being assistants, but tonight it hit a raw nerve. My nurse manager told me she had rather have my assessments that she had some of the RN's working for her, but she needed the TITLE of RN.

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nursepenny

I am so happy to see your post. I get really nauseated every time I read a BSN's post about how superior they are to ADNs and LPNs. I am nothing at this point, just entering nursing, but the sickening bragging banter that I see here by some of the RNs with "superior" attitude has made me want to have NOTHING to do with a BSN Degree. I am so tired of seeing all of the insults thrown by many BSNs to ADNs and LPN/LVNs. There was a thread here: "What do you think the biggest problem in nursing is?" I think it is the "BS" attitude that I see in action by many BSNs. It is uncalled for.

By the way, I a currently considering an LPN degree program! It is set up to allow an LPN to continue through to ADN and then BSN, but I really don't think that I want to be associated with what I see to be such caustic behavior.

You only say that because you don't have an RN license and a masters degree. Maybe you're not the academic type, fine. Be an LPN--the world needs good LPNs. But if you have the ability to do more (financially, circumstantially, academically) and you don't, you will always be part of the caste that has to say "I'm a nurse, too."

I'm not attacking LPNs in this string. I'm just trying to understand their role. You're attacking LPNs by spitting on BSN-RNs, because the only people who need to spit on others are those who feel less than others.

And here's another truth that's a big pill to swallow: you can't be humble when you have to be subservient. Christ was only humble, because He was really God.

The Veridican

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I have a choice of which path I take to nursing. The more that I see on this board, the easier it becomes to decide the direction that I will take.

I just can't believe this superior attitude that I see again and again.

Many years ago I was a young faculty wife in a liberal arts college. This banter about who is better than whom reminds me of all of the politics that went on among the faculty there ... shallow and superficial, in bad taste, and laughable. The more it continues, the more I want to rebel.

Caution, looking down a long nose can make one cross eyed. :chuckle

You only say that because you don't have an RN license and a masters degree. Maybe you're not the academic type, fine. Be an LPN--the world needs good LPNs. But if you have the ability to do more (financially, circumstantially, academically) and you don't, you will always be part of the caste that has to say "I'm a nurse, too."

I'm not attacking LPNs in this string. I'm just trying to understand their role. You're attacking LPNs by spitting on BSN-RNs, because the only people who need to spit on others are those who feel less than others.

And here's another truth that's a big pill to swallow: you can't be humble when you have to be subservient. Christ was only humble, because He was really God.

The Veridican

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Yes, do what is best for you but certainly don't hold yourself back from going further just because you feel someone is acting more superior! Go and chose what is best and if you get an RN degree be the best you can and postively impact others versus looking down--hence making the nursing profession and work relations a better scenario. I do realize from being an LPN that frequently others look at us as not "real nurses" but I knew better than that! I went back to get my ADN degree and was not held back because someone made me mad because they said something offensive. Sheez if we all were held back because someone thaought they were better most of us would be doing nothing! I will be going on this summer to get a BSN degree as well. It is so play ground to say I will not do this or that because he/ she said this or that. It is a fact that people will always be like this and you must effectively deal with it when working as any kind of nurse. My teen always does this...so and so said this about my shirt so I don't like it any more (even though she likes it :) ) Point being if you want to be an LPN--great! I think they are wonderful, having been one for almost 10 years BUT don't hold yourself back if want to be an RN of any kind just because of playground words. Put the positives into motion. One person can put a glint into darkness.

Karen

I have a choice of which path I take to nursing. The more that I see on this board, the easier it becomes to decide the direction that I will take.

I just can't believe this superior attitude that I see again and again.

Many years ago I was a young faculty wife in a liberal arts college. This banter about who is better than whom reminds me of all of the politics that went on among the faculty there ... shallow and superficial, in bad taste, and laughable. The more it continues, the more I want to rebel.

Caution, looking down a long nose can make one cross eyed. :chuckle

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Allamericangirl,

I see your profile says you want to go as far as you can (CNA to LPN to ADN to as far as you can). Don't let everyday garb cloud your view! Like I said before it is just as playground to hold yourself back because of words as it is to make those comments! You are better than that so go for it!

Karen

I have a choice of which path I take to nursing. The more that I see on this board, the easier it becomes to decide the direction that I will take.

I just can't believe this superior attitude that I see again and again.

Many years ago I was a young faculty wife in a liberal arts college. This banter about who is better than whom reminds me of all of the politics that went on among the faculty there ... shallow and superficial, in bad taste, and laughable. The more it continues, the more I want to rebel.

Caution, looking down a long nose can make one cross eyed. :chuckle

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Specializes in Progressive Care Unit/Observation, Critical Care.
Nursing is really a broad term. But in modern health care you have either an MD or an RN, everyone else is an assistant to one or the other of them.

MD

PA, NP, PT, OT, radiology tech, RD, RT, etc.

RN

LPN, CNA, medication tech, evironmental services, dietary services, laundry services, psych tech, etc.

There is no escaping this fact. I suggest if one wants to be a nurse, they become an RN.

The Veridican

I think the tenor of this faux paus has been sounded quite nicely. I have trained new RN's...hmmm...I guess I am assisting them along the pathway of knowledge.

Geesh - :uhoh3:

The Kingster

LPN+, BA, MBA

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