"LPNs are glorified CNAs"

[nursetnc]

I am in my last semester of an ADN-RN program. In my state you have the opportunity to become an lpn after finishing the second semester of an rn program. Having worked at a SNF as a CNA for years, I jumped on that change. I studied hard for the nclex-pn and was ecstatic and proud when I passed and officially became a nurse. Today I was at the hospital doing a clinical for my rn program and I mentioned to a patient's family member that I was already a nurse, an lpn, but I was working on finishing up my rn. She replied that "that's good because lpns are just glorified cnas anyway." Um... that really rubbed me the wrong way. While I have mad respect for cnas and believe that it's an incredibly important and meaningful job, I could not have been an lpn and been good at my job with just a cna education and experience. I have attended many lectures, studied many hours, and done hundreds of clinical hours to be able to sit for, and pass, the nclex. I know she didn't mean it that way, but it made me a bit upset to be called a "glorified cna" after all the hard work I've put into obtaining my nursing license. I don't think people really understand what it means to be a nurse and how much critical thinking and constant learning is required. Does anyone else have any similar experiences or thoughts on the situation? I'm interested to hear other's experiences!

[wantobern01]

I wouldn't take to heart what the family of a patient said about being a glorified cna. I recently failed my last semester of nursing school (ADN) because of my last final. I completely bombed it making my semester grade 2 points to low to pass. And I cannot go back to school to repeat, its not allowed. I cannot sit for the LPN/nclex either. I can only work as a certified CNA. So that should tell you you are much more than a glorified cna. I'm currently working as a sea until I can save some $ to go back to school for a LPN license. I am required to take a full program even though I have my ADN prerequisites, so to speak. Failing my last exam cost me big time. I must say that because of what I learned in school it makes working as a cna difficult. The nurse here (in's) do not want to lend a hand occasionally like when you have a 400 lbs patient, many of them seem to look down on me because I am a cna. I advocate for my patients even though I"m not there yet. So be proud of who you are and why you became a LPN or a RN. My next step is to become a LPN and I will go from there.

[CTICUslave]

The reality is as long as being an MD is the hospital and societal standard of the 'top of the food chain', we're always going to have distinctions between specialties that aren't MD's.

Here's good ol' society's view of healthcare professionals:

MD = God -->

DO for those not quite competitive enough for MD -->

RN's who are extra hands to the doctor to carry out the doctor's orders -->

LPN's who are extra hands to the RN's -->

PCT's who do the busy work the LPN's and RN's can't be bothered with like boosts, re-positioning, blood draws (hospital specific), and EKG's -->

CNA's who do the busy, unimportant work that RN's can't be bothered with like sugar checks, repositioning, BM's, call lights, bathing, etc.

I'm an RN and I always stand up for LPN's, but you can't fault the public for their perception of LPN's not being nurses. It's as simple as the fact that two titles existing says "these two are not alike, hence why there's two distinctions." If I'm an LPN it's because I'm not an RN, and vice versa. When the general public says 'nurse', they're 99.9% of the time referring to an RN - so when they're pointed out to the distinction of "so and so isn't an RN, they're an LPN" it's kind of impossible for them not to arrive at "oh ok so LPN's aren't nurses then."

And honestly this is only being exacerbated by hospitals' fixation/obsession with attaining magnet status. Magnet status is literally delivered as the gold standard - by hospitals, by the joint comission, even by the ANA and the ANA's official journal American Nurse Today. So when you tell healthcare professionals AND the public that magnet is best, how do you defend LPN's at the same time when to qualify for magnet status literally EVERY nurse in a nurse manager and nurse leadership role must literally have a baccalaureate degree or higher and be an RN? If an LPN isn't an RN and only an RN can be in a management or leadership role in a magnet hospital, how can the public NOT view an LPN as inferior?

Hospital and the AACN: "Magnet is the gold standard of healthcare."
Hospital and the AACN: "To be magnet, ALL nurse managers and nurse leadership must have their BSN."
Hospital and the AACN: "Hospitals will need 80% BSN prevalence among their nurses to qualify to be the magnet."

I mean honestly, can you blame someone for drawing the parallelism of LPN's aren't nurses when even the AACN delivers the verbiage that they do? When the healthcare realm is telling the public that RN-BSN's are required for a hospital to meet the 'gold standard', then you tell them "an LPN is not an RN" or that "an LPN can't even be a nurse manager in a magent hospital", how do you you expect them to view them as equal? It's impossible really.

[ShadowNurse]

I tell you what, I've worked with some LPNs who could nurse circles around your average RN. Some of whom mentored me.

[19Kristin]

I'm an LPN graduating with my BSN next month and actually, this semester in lecture our professor used the verbiage in regards to LPNs that it is different when you become a nurse. She was talking about leadership responsibilities and the differences between the two titles, but she said it like that, different when you become a nurse. I don't know if she meant it like that, she hasn't ever belittled LPNs or anything, but that statement gave me pause. I have experienced the belittlement here and there throughout my career as an LPN. Even from well-meaning RN coworkers who weren't intentionally belittling me but they did. Even my own grandma has harped and harped about me getting my nursing degree instead of stopping at LPN and was ecstatic to hear that I decided to go back to school.

But you know what? I have witnessed this same belittlement in school and practice when it comes to ADNs and BSNs. I see it from my own BSN instructors who remind us that BSNs are superior, they are more educated, have better patient outcomes, more desired etc. Which I cringe at because they are conditioning us to have a bias and I don't like that. I saw it at work too, my ADN workers calling the BSNs bull *** nurses and my BSN coworkers passive aggressively telling the ADNs they could get the open supervisor position on the floor if they only would go back for their BSN. It's everywhere with every distinction. I work with an MD, DO and PA and I hear the patients give the PA *** for being a PA and the MD giving the DO *** etc.

[Glycerine82, LPN]

I can't do my job without my CNAs, I really can't. They are invaluable and a good CNA is worth their weight in gold. That being said, anyone with the mentality that LPNs aren't valuable members of the nursing team is just ignorant and likely unhappy with their own career choices.

Not to mention, in my facility I'm the only nurse for my entire 12 hour shift. I'm it. I run the show, so to speak. I don't answer to anyone besides the MD when applicable.

It really irritates me that there is this misconception that LPNs can't be competent and autonomous in particular settings because we absolutely are.

[Orca, ADN, ASN, RN]

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 11:05 PM, CTICUslave said:

The reality is as long as being an MD is the hospital and societal standard of the 'top of the food chain', we're always going to have distinctions between specialties that aren't MD's.

I know of nursing personnel who don't believe that DOs are physicians. One said about a DO on staff, "It's a shame that he isn't a real doctor." That became a running joke between that physician and me.

[WickerRN, BSN, RN]

As an RN, I do not think an LVN is any higher than I am. A nurse is a nurse. I am hoping that LVN's can start coming back to acute care hospitals. There is a NEED and space for LVN's in acute care settingw in my opinion.

[nea415, LPN, LVN]

I went to City College of San Francisco LVN program and graduated in 2004. My teachers were all old school RN's (graduated from hospital live in programs). They always told us, the real only difference from a LVN and RN is the ability to push a narcotic through a I.V. They also said just like ADN, the LVN spends more of the education learning the job of nursing, and less time focused on the multiple higher level education course that the BSN receives. They said clinically, the ADN and even LVN were more prepared for the job.

All the politics of nursing is what created the divide. Yes the BSN can be in management, but those of us who don't care to ever do that, can find our fit with ADN, and LVN.

Personally I miss the time I spent as a CNA. My patients would always say "you are my real nurse because you make sure I am clean. and fed, and presentable for when my family visits. As a LVN I have become a pill pusher with little time to create the bonds I had as a CNA.

Of course I too long for my RN degree, because at the end of the day, your title is what gives you respect educationally, and options in career.

[Glycerine82, LPN]

On 5/9/2019 at 3:48 PM, nea415 said:

They always told us, the real only difference from a LVN and RN is the ability to push a narcotic through a I.V.

While this is true in my state (although I think its ALL IV push meds aside from NS) in addition to pronouncement, what I was taught is that LPNs are meant to care for patients with expected outcomes. What that outcome is expected to be can vary greatly, of course. Whether they patient is expected to recover, pass away, etc. and I agree with that.

What I can say without pause though, is that I am not skilled or knowledgeable enough to care for a patient who is critical. I don't know enough about pharmacology, managing drips, etc. so in many ways I'm really not the same as an RN, but in my specific role - I am.

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

In my opinion skilled nursing facilities help to perpetuate this because of their habit of calling everybody "Your Nurse" I have seen facility directors do it and families get easily confused.

CNAs deserve a lot of credit for the great job they do. So do LVNs. Remember teamwork makes the dream work.

Hppy

[LaJollalove]

I’m an LVN- I saw a job listing written by a nursing recruiter (usually having a Bachelors is a requirement to be a Nurse recruiter) saying something like “ we love our Nurses and our LVNs are great as well”. I actually emailed the recruiter to remind her that LVNs are Nurses but decided not to apply after feeling rubbed the wrong way.

When I’ve complained about a job or pay in the past-to my own brother- he suggested “you should become a nurse”.

My own mother asked what I wanted for my birthday- I replied that I could use a new stethoscope and she replied “do you actually know how to use one?” and she wasn’t joking! She asked my brother right in front of me to simply adhere her heart monitor.

I overheard a patient on the phone complaining about the facility he said “yeah and the don’t even have the good nurses most are all like LVNs or something”.

You get very used to this though. I’ve been an LVN so long now I could care less. If people want to think I’m not a Nurse it’s fine. I know I earned the right to use nurse in my job title regardless of what anyone thinks. If people don’t think I really have any nursing skills it’s not a problem unless I’m asking them to hire me.

[Orca, ADN, ASN, RN]

During my final clinical in RN school, I was assigned to a veteran LPN in the hospital. This woman had done and seen pretty much everything, and she was the one who the RNs would go to if they weren't sure about how to do something. This was on an oncology unit, so there were some heavy duty things going on. I learned a lot from her, and I was grateful to her and to my instructor for assigning me to her.