Orange County CA LVN schools- which is best? - page 2

Hi I am new to this but hopefully someone will have the answers I need!!! I am looking to start an LVN program this Fall in Orange County CA. From what I have found online it seems like the best two... Read More

  1. by   Delta18
    No...and you'd think within a couple of months you could secure something here in the Orange County area. But the truth is - the bad economy has sucked all the openings dry. One thing that the schools won't tell you because that is not their concern, is that LVNs are not as in demand as RNs - in ANY clinical area Military, V.A. hospitals/clinics, hospitals, and even SNFs. The reason why is primarily focused on the scope of practice. The facilities need people who are able to do EVERYTHING short of being doctors. The belief that an RN in a crisis SHOULD be able to problem solve with less restrictions than an LVN. Furthermore, the issue of facilities phasing out LVN positions is on the rise...your schools - especially ACC and CNI will not tell you this. Placentia Linda Hospital and Fountain Valley (both Tenet owned) have phased out their LVN hiring....those LVNs on staff are either being systematically replaced or made aware that they need to get into an RN program somewhere to retain their jobs. Places like Hoag and Mission Hospital (St. Joe's) are closed to the idea of LVNs - the attitude at the H/R offices are "Don't even bother". Kaiser for awhile toyed with the idea of phasing out CNA's/UAP's and replacing them with LVNs. But that led to a feeding frenzy, and I think they shut their doors to "new grads". Which brings me to the next and most devastating reality check for any students that are in any LVN schools here in California - it is the #1 reason why places are not hiring new graduates; and this is listed on the application forms you will be filling out -----------> "Do you have any experience as an LVN?" And the majority of the time the answer will be "Duh! I'm a NEW GRAD =====> Of course NOT!" That right there is the deal killer. Most places, including Long Beach V.A. Hospital will state that they require you to have 1-2-3 years of experience. Kinda make you wonder why the folks at admissions or your "1st day of orientation" didn't give you this information, huh? :angryfire
    Now, there are those students who will find it a lot easier to wedge themselves into a "women's clinic" - guess what sex you have to be to get lucky to fill those positions .... mind you an LVN with a p3nis need not apply because they wouldn't get hired unless they were tri-lingual (English, Spanish, and Vietnamese) living on the border of Garden Grove and Santa Ana! (Racist and Sexist? You'd think that wouldn't be the case with nursing - for guys and the English only speakers....that's reality). There is also another trend that I've noticed, and that deals with "student nurses" who transfer over from being EMTs or Med. Assistants....they actually can claim "experience" - so they have it a little easier "greasing" the H/R departments into hiring them. There was a guy who I knew who worked at Fountain Valley Regional as an LVN in the DOU...he always said that because he had experience as and EMT and is an American Heart/American Red Cross Instructor; plus he belonged to a bunch of disaster programs...were the reasons how he got hired. I mean the guy was one of those guys who was on top of everything...he was very competent and knowledgeable. Plus, he is a nurse that I would trust in any situation. This brings me to the last point of interest for "new nurses" out there. You will hit a wall looking (for whatever time it takes for you to actually land a job ) - that first job. This is economics. The phrase "there is a nursing shortage" is true....but it's also ********. Not everything can be blamed on the bad economy, yet that has contributed to what I call "over retention". Nurses (supposedly retiring nursing as well as those younger nurses would normally "slack" at their jobs) are staying on. They are not taking retirement; they are not calling in sick; and they are taking shifts wherever they can. "So what?" you ask. Well, think about it. This fact added to the fact that facilities cannot "afford" to hire - especially after Gov. Swartzenheimer and the California legislature failed in passing a budget on time, and all that $$$ that was supposed to fund programs were severely delayed....do the math. You'd think that the stupid politicians would have been thinking about the actual better good of the people....the patients, the facilities, the medical/psych programs, and of course (personnel who's livelihood depends upon that funding) - the nurses. So, this is what I call "new grads" getting screwed - the school's lie to you (both intentionally and unintentionally); then you get openly screwed by the economy! I know that this is a very dismal look at job hunting...but this is a reality check for those that are in it and those that are thinking about joining this club of "bastards" - because as an LVN...we really are a bunch of "red-headed step children" in the eyes of the medical community....no one knows how to utilize us...and to many of our RN brother and sisters - we (LVNs) don't deserve a place at the table! As I stated before...this is :sfxpld: waiting to happen...just as the mortgage industry was. Places like CNI, ACC, Concorde, and Stanbridge will have to answer for predatory business practices. And of course they will all use the "benevolence" of Nurse Education as a shield. However, for those that are thinking about coming into this field...there is NOTHING sacred or holy about nursing...when it comes to THIS (LVN-private school) type of education!
    Last edit by Silverdragon102 on Nov 30, '09 : Reason: changed to all ****
  2. by   confused0101
    HEY.. SO you graduated from CNI in what year and you still haven't found a job???
  3. by   Delta18
    Quote from confused0101
    HEY.. SO you graduated from CNI in what year and you still haven't found a job???
    It doesn't matter what year or month I graduated from CNI, truth be told all of that is as relevant as how many "awards" **** gives you. The reason I say this, is because every term that graduates always has a "valedictorian" (whoo hoo) - many of them don't deserve it...a great many of them are actually "given" the title through manipulation of grades. The sad fact is that our valedictorian after 1 year has still not found himself a job. Most impressive for a "straight A" student (who cheated most of the way up) and now cannot pass the NCLEX despite going through the "Lifesavers NCLEX review" TWICE! But this was supposed to be about "me"...I graduated in the middle of the pack with a gpa of 3.15, passed my NCLEX first shot. Then with a lot of slogging through "monster, career builder, job finder,etc. etc." it took me over 6 months to find the job that I am currently in. This is also something that they conveniently omit from your "learning" or the "advisement" period you go through before entering. So you are pretty much screwed even when you start the program. A drunk hobo would nave a better chance of falling into Paris Hilton's lap on a Saturday night, than a new grad LVN finding a job in the Orange County right now....circa 11/2009. So to those that doubt this statistic...see how many interviewers will give you the time of day with "New Grad/No actual experience other than my education" indicated or hinted on your resume. And if you are thinking of "creatively" fibbing about your experience...remember they check that stuff - and as a nurse...if you lie and get caught that's an instant :lol_hitti:smackingf

    So once again...going with the ADN or RN program doesn't seem so bad after all.
    Last edit by pagandeva2000 on Nov 29, '09 : Reason: removed initials
  4. by   Tammykay821
    I went to Pacific College. I graduated in Oct.2008 and passed the NCLEX in May 2009. I had a great experience there and made many good friends! I wish you the best.
  5. by   Delta18
    Quote from Tammykay821
    I went to Pacific College. I graduated in Oct.2008 and passed the NCLEX in May 2009. I had a great experience there and made many good friends! I wish you the best.
    Tammy makes a good point in her statement. Not implying anything about Tammy's background. But here's another thing that the schools do not tell you right off. In the event that you have an issue with your background....ie, criminal or any offense - the state board automatically flags your application...and it can take anywhere from a month to a few MORE months to clear you - still there is always the possibility (depending on the timing of the infraction, the severity of the infraction, and the issues surrounding how you are dealing with making amends for the infraction). Still even with that in your mind...now comes the even trickier part of trying to get your D.O.N., Dean of the college, Program Specialist, etc. (whoever is in charge of your getting your paper work to the board) - the school's standing with the board can also delay your applications packet being received/opened/processed. It is that simple. More time in between all the prep that you've done to get to the NCLEX. It sucks, but a lot of this essential stuff is never covered by your school during your admissions process.

    Tammy indicated in the quote above that she graduated in Oct 2008 and then 6 months later she took her NCLEX. That's a long time to wait to take the NCLEX. Obviously, Tammy was studying and prepping...which was a good thing. But if the wait was whittled down to 1 to 2 months at the most (Tammy prepped before graduation and was ready to take the NCLEX right after graduation night....assuming that Pacific College got Tammy's packet to the board and things cleared in a 2 week period) then that would leave Tammy to hunt for a job no more than 2 months after she graduated, passed the NCLEX and moved on.

    So the big question is why are all of these schools (for the majority of their students) having such a difficult time getting their students to the board? Why is it taking so long for the students to get to take the NCLEX? Is it the prep work they are doing? Is that prep work even remotely adequate to get a student ready to take the NCLEX right after graduation? Isn't that what $30K is supposed to get you? Why do students end up taking prep work outside of the confines of the school - paying MORE money for prep work they should be getting at the schools, I mean this with all the "OVER qualified" teachers and administrators at these schools. This is more food for thought for those that are considering the route of LVN schools in Orange County California.

    As with all my other posts on this thread - RE-THINK a rushed decision into the quagmire of $#!# that these schools are, and DO NOT be fooled like so many of us who have come before you! Heed the warnings!!!
    Last edit by Silverdragon102 on Nov 29, '09 : Reason: changed to all symbols
  6. by   wallewalle
    Quote from fgamiao
    october 6, 2009

    i am currently enrolled at hacienda la puente vocational nursing program. i highly recommend this school even though it's an adult school. it offers a lot of support from staff and students. my teachers are awesome! they are knowledgable in a lot of nursing theories and practices. i already completed 3 1/2 months in the program and i am grateful that i chose this school. my clinical site is on a med/surg floor at kaiser permanente hospital in baldwin park. i live in garden grove and travel more than majority of my classmates...it's worth the sacrifice! for those who are curious about this school...the monthly fee is $300.00 for 12 months. hacienda la puente adult school is a branch out from hacienda la puente school district. this program is actually funded by the government. for those considering lvn option...consider this school before thinking of going to a private school.
    hi, fgamiao:
    this is my first message =) hihi
    i'm planing to attend the hacienda la puente vocational nursing program as well, i just took the entrance test they said they will give me a call to see if i get in or not. the class starts on june and they said they took about 100~200 students highest score in entance test to take the pre-lvn class and cut down to 50 to get in the lvn program.
    so you passed all that to get in the lvn pregram? is it hard to get pass for pre-lvn class? cause i do not have any experience on any kind of nusring class, what do i need to do to give me the better chance to get in lvn program?

    thank you.
  7. by   JudeElf
    It's amazing to me how much particular private information some of you have concerning the employment and reasons for the dismissal of some of the instructors at the various schools. This is information that is supposed to be priveleged, number one, and number two, concerning certain information which I will not address, you do NOT have the true, complete story as to why these instructors were either dismissed or changed schools, even though you may think you do. Because you are NEW Nurses, (if in fact you are at all), you will eventually learn that as a matter of protocol, integrity, privacy, and professionalism, we who have been Nurses for MANY years, do not generally engage in gossip. We go to our Superiors if there is a problem with another instructor or with a colleague and alert them to the fact that there may be a problem that they need to address. If a Nurse is committing an indiscretion, it MUST be reported, not blogged about by a disgruntled student who really has no concept of what Nursing is really about. I myself have reported problems concerning other Nurses in the various jobs I have held over the last 21 years, but I have addressed them through the PROPER channels, privately. It is NOONE elses business if a Nurse is having difficulties unless it compromises the safety of PATIENTS, staff and students. But it still must be handled discreetly, otherwise it holds no bearing. Concerning the Nurse who committed suicide. How dare you assume to know her reasons. You don't know what else was going on in her life. You can't assume to know, despite the fact that you may feel that you do, the events that led up to that terribly tragic act. Suicide is an incredibly convoluted and complicated ending to what can have been a person's idea that frankly, there absolutely was no other way. How dare you diminish this Nurse's life by gossiping about it and blaming it on people who actually may have had absolutely nothing to do with it. Suicide is usually a culmination of a person's inability to manage his/her life. As a Nurse, you may NEVER assume you know what's going on with a person until you have done a thorough assessment of a person's emotional, physical and spiritual status. Obviously you were daydreaming during that lecture, or worrying too much about the fact that you needed to wear white shoes. Your lack of experience and your dispassionate nature show. You had the choice to leave the school you weren't happy going to AT ANY TIME. You picked the school. Your choice. You make it what it is. You get out of it what you put into it. True, a lot of hospitals are not hiring LVN's. But there are alternatives. Be creative. Noone can take your education away from you. You hopefully, have matured as a result of your education. But after reading some of these blogs, I wonder. Take what you have learned, lose your bitterness, because it has no place in Nursing, and move on from here. I wouldn't trade my career as an LVN for anything in the world. I remain an LVN, studying for my RN, but I am a CHPLN. (Certified Hospice & Palliative Licensed Nurse). I have worked everything from Peds to Home Care to Clinics to Registry to Hospitals to Management. I am also a Nursing Instructor at one of the above named schools which shall remain nameless. That is not your business. What is your business is that if you are going to be a good, compassionate, loving Nurse, the main ingredient you need is HOPE. If you run around with a sour attitude, that is what you will be. A Nurse I wouldn't allow touching me. I see them everyday. A simple smile, a loving touch, a kind word, and the arrangement of a warm blanket go a long way. So get off it. Lose the attitude. Lose the gossip. Be professional and act in a way that is worthy of the world's MOST noble profession. I do. And it has been a journey at times filled with sorrow, but mostly filled with joy, integrity, professionalism, and yes most of all, Compassion. If you don't have compassion, you will have nothing. I have a lifetimetime of memories of patients I have loved, many I have lost, and colleagues I trust, respect, learned from, cried with, been comforted by, and comforted. Start your careers with the other most important ingredient: LOVE. If you didn't have the capacity for love and compassion you wouldn't have chosen Nursing in the first place. Finally, I wish you luck in your careers, and hope you heed what I have said and take it in the spirit in which it was meant. I will defend my profession unto my death and beyond. Take the best and leave the rest. May you find the satisfaction in your careers that I have found, and continue to find, in mine. May you continue to learn and love. Find your self-respect and share it. Your patients and your colleagues will love you and thank you for it. I do. The best of luck to you.
  8. by   Delta18
    Quote from JudeElf
    It's amazing to me how much particular private information some of you have concerning the employment and reasons for the dismissal of some of the instructors at the various schools. This is information that is supposed to be priveleged, number one, and number two, concerning certain information which I will not address, you do NOT have the true, complete story as to why these instructors were either dismissed or changed schools, even though you may think you do. Because you are NEW Nurses, (if in fact you are at all), you will eventually learn that as a matter of protocol, integrity, privacy, and professionalism, we who have been Nurses for MANY years, do not generally engage in gossip. We go to our Superiors if there is a problem with another instructor or with a colleague and alert them to the fact that there may be a problem that they need to address. If a Nurse is committing an indiscretion, it MUST be reported, not blogged about by a disgruntled student who really has no concept of what Nursing is really about. I myself have reported problems concerning other Nurses in the various jobs I have held over the last 21 years, but I have addressed them through the PROPER channels, privately. It is NOONE elses business if a Nurse is having difficulties unless it compromises the safety of PATIENTS, staff and students. But it still must be handled discreetly, otherwise it holds no bearing. Concerning the Nurse who committed suicide. How dare you assume to know her reasons. You don't know what else was going on in her life. You can't assume to know, despite the fact that you may feel that you do, the events that led up to that terribly tragic act. Suicide is an incredibly convoluted and complicated ending to what can have been a person's idea that frankly, there absolutely was no other way. How dare you diminish this Nurse's life by gossiping about it and blaming it on people who actually may have had absolutely nothing to do with it. Suicide is usually a culmination of a person's inability to manage his/her life. As a Nurse, you may NEVER assume you know what's going on with a person until you have done a thorough assessment of a person's emotional, physical and spiritual status. Obviously you were daydreaming during that lecture, or worrying too much about the fact that you needed to wear white shoes. Your lack of experience and your dispassionate nature show. You had the choice to leave the school you weren't happy going to AT ANY TIME. You picked the school. Your choice. You make it what it is. You get out of it what you put into it. True, a lot of hospitals are not hiring LVN's. But there are alternatives. Be creative. Noone can take your education away from you. You hopefully, have matured as a result of your education. But after reading some of these blogs, I wonder. Take what you have learned, lose your bitterness, because it has no place in Nursing, and move on from here. I wouldn't trade my career as an LVN for anything in the world. I remain an LVN, studying for my RN, but I am a CHPLN. (Certified Hospice & Palliative Licensed Nurse). I have worked everything from Peds to Home Care to Clinics to Registry to Hospitals to Management. I am also a Nursing Instructor at one of the above named schools which shall remain nameless. That is not your business. What is your business is that if you are going to be a good, compassionate, loving Nurse, the main ingredient you need is HOPE. If you run around with a sour attitude, that is what you will be. A Nurse I wouldn't allow touching me. I see them everyday. A simple smile, a loving touch, a kind word, and the arrangement of a warm blanket go a long way. So get off it. Lose the attitude. Lose the gossip. Be professional and act in a way that is worthy of the world's MOST noble profession. I do. And it has been a journey at times filled with sorrow, but mostly filled with joy, integrity, professionalism, and yes most of all, Compassion. If you don't have compassion, you will have nothing. I have a lifetimetime of memories of patients I have loved, many I have lost, and colleagues I trust, respect, learned from, cried with, been comforted by, and comforted. Start your careers with the other most important ingredient: LOVE. If you didn't have the capacity for love and compassion you wouldn't have chosen Nursing in the first place. Finally, I wish you luck in your careers, and hope you heed what I have said and take it in the spirit in which it was meant. I will defend my profession unto my death and beyond. Take the best and leave the rest. May you find the satisfaction in your careers that I have found, and continue to find, in mine. May you continue to learn and love. Find your self-respect and share it. Your patients and your colleagues will love you and thank you for it. I do. The best of luck to you.
    Self-respect comes from being honest with yourself, yes. But it also comes with being HONEST with people who ask for it! The schools listed and the one you work for all share that "shroud" of keeping things in the dark...."CYA because we don't want the bad stuff shutting us down." I could care less about a colleague who breaks the rules, beds down a student, and goes berserk because of a rumor. Or a school covering up a med-error because a student is a 3 year repeat....only because the school looks at them as a $$$ figure. You want to "keep people in the dark", fine - your conscience; your prerogative. I for one have found my "zen" in speaking the truth. I will take the best...and abandon what I call "professional hypocrisy" in my wake. I will sight what is wrong - because nurses are ADVOCATES for those that cannot be advocates for themselves. That includes those that ask for assistance and for those people (not just patients) that have no real understanding of what goes on in these places. And if that dents your pocket book because your "sucker" ratio is down...tough! The truth is the truth.

    And apparently, in your haste to what I call "CREDENTIALIZE" yourself, you seemed to have skipped over a lot of the "facts" that you seem to be spouting off about. I love nurses like you...."I did this...I did that...I teach here" as if that changes the fact that you have NOT disproven anything that has been written here. I think instructors NEED the naive and stupid individuals that waltz into the admissions offices, because it ensures that you have a "sideline" job to supplement your sagging paycheck. (I mean it must be hard being an LVN and going to school at the same time). Again, nothing in your credentials shows that you are a certified teacher. Certified nurse yes, but as a "VOCATIONAL INSTRUCTOR" - how many contact hours have you spent on course curriculum and design for vocational education? How many college classes have you taken on getting certified as a vocational instructor/educator? In many places that's requried...places that exist outside of California - that have much better passing rates than the schools listed. Is it a wonder that private schools take ANYONE off the street, or for that matter any "nurse" with clinical experience. I mean any bag of skin off the street, who cares if they've had 15 write ups in the last year, from an institution that they carefully omit from their resume. Just as long as they haven't killed anyone - woefully incompetent, yes...just not a convicted "whoops killed another one" kind of nurse.

    Funny thing in reading your reply, the "suicide" issue that was brought up was in regards to a support staff member who in fact could not cope with the issues that were being thrown their way - from a D.O.N. who is a "veteran nurse" - who spouts off like a bad case of diarrhea about "Being professional, prompt, and full of compassion. This is the same D.O.N. who looks at a student and tells that student that they need to quit working (the student was putting themselves through school) and just let their parents pay for the school bills; and just to pay them back afterwards. You, JudeElf want to talk about your boss or someone who was probably "cloned" from the same pile of manure they were? It really is funny how that term gets thrown around a lot - "Veteran"....in order to be a veteran, you need to be competent at the trade-craft in which you are trained (in ALL aspects and if you aren't well you are expected to master that which you are most weak in) - isn't that what you expect of your students? And yet at all of these schools - only a hand full of instructors can actually walk-the-walk as being "NURSES". The word competent simply defined is equitable to "learned"....you've achieved a certain understanding in terms of nursing. Compassion...as a nurse...even to those patients or otherwise that are not as "kind" to you...your patient who tells you to go to hell. As a "learned" nurse you provide compassion despite the patient block. "JudeElf" or whatever your tag name is. I really don't care how much you think your critique of the posts impact my sense of "nursing" or what you seem to be calling my "high-horse attitude" is on this thread, because one thing that these private LVN schools in Orange County, CA ALL have is a level of dishonesty that I very much equate to the problematic mortgage industry that has caused massive waves that have ripped through our state and nation, all of which has had a global impact. And why is that "Oh learned sage"? How can I think that these two issues are remotely comparable?! Because there was NO HONESTY on the part of those business, account managers, brokers, owners, etc. In addition to the fact that there was no strict oversight - a very competent oversight into the conduct of ALL mortgage lenders (big and small) - just like there is NO scrutinizing these PRIVATE and public LVN schools that have popped up all over the place, that is until there is a sentinal incident linked to the school. Lastly, and this is a BIG one - HYPOCRICY. The schools are "do as we say, not as we do", and that my "Elder nurse" is something that you are a big part of - in the simplicity of your statement, students are expected to maintain a certain level of professionalism. Yet, still an instructor or administrator can disregard those rules and still function as PAID faculty at these schools.

    So as a student, my hard earned money went/goes to pay for your pay check bubba. So here's BRAIN CHECK TIME professor - you go to buy a car...a lot of money right? But the salesman says we got the car for you, you just can't see it until you buy it, oh, and that's the only time you get to drive it...no test drive...no papers...nothing concrete until you are 1500 miles in - and then there's no returns or refunds. Do YOU buy the car? If you do "Jude" it's a wonder you are teaching at ONE of these schools. Makes me think about how many of these schools in the Orange County area you've taught in. I don't know if you are part of the solution...that will have to be judged by how your students "rate" you. Here's the cold hard truth People are ready to dole out the advice about "being professional by just roling over and playing the 'whacking board' for your education." Mind you I believe in being professional, being on time, and bringing your "A" game to each day that you are a nurse-in-training and as a nurse. But to take it up the *** because someone says to do it - even though you know for a fact that you are following the "rules" to the letter. NO WAY! That's how people get shoved into box cars and marched into gas chambers and ovens. More importantly, the advice that you are so ready to dole out doesn't give anyone any REAL/CONCRETE insight or solution to the "issue" in question - the original TITLE OF THE THREAD...."Orange County CA LVN schools - which is best?"
    I maintain my answer through my replies on this thread - THERE ARE NONE! These schools are like directly linked petri dishes that are all culturing veneral disease. They are so closely intertwind, despite being competitors, that their "filth" gets distributed so quickly. Now, for the curious student and the critic out there - I also maintain that there are the golden nuggets that you will find (the teachers/instructors in theory and clinical) who will go above and beyond what is expected of them - in order to try to EDUCATE the students. This is often to their own detriment, because either the school doesn't compensate these few instructors; or the instructors are reprimanded for giving of themselves without the consent of the administration.
    For the students that are out there - I pose the same series of questions: Why spend $30K on something that has "little-to-no gain" potential? All to pay top dollar to some instructor who is out there trying to make a living at a school, because they either 1.) Don't really want to be a nurse...and well let's face it, they paid top dollar for that nursing license...this is the only way they can keep it or 2.) They themselves are putting themselves through school. Granted the ones doing their MSN or NP - they are tracked to do well and they are usually the ones that put in the time to get you through. But the ones that are on and off 5+ years as LVNs working on getting their RNs. I gotta say...the out look is "Bah-leak". The reason is that they themselves are often looked at as being the "bottom feeders" by most of their colleagues. And mind you....a lot of them don't fair well at clinical sites because they themselves are met with opposition from RN staff at the facilities because they themselves are bound by the scope of practice as LVNs. So in short - your education as an LVN at a SNF may thrive with and LVN instructor. But God forbid you get to an acute hospital and you have to assist with a patient who needs an RN with experience, because your LVN instructor is in the same boat you are in - "Stuck up ****** creek without a RN to help you paddle."

    In closing, any "STAFF NURSES"/Administrators from the various Orange County, CA schools....here's what's up with "bloggin". Honesty. And if it offends your delicate sensibilites that someone is voicing a negative opinion of your beloved place of work - or a class you are teaching. Read it, and if it's full of profanity or just plain garbage. Well, then let it be. But if it is full of a good insight into what is happening around your area of "higher education" - FIX THE PROBLEMS! Oh, and the follow "chain of command". Please, people should know that ****** trickles down....it never goes UP! So if that be the case, then do I think that these schools are going to remedy anything? If that was the case, then there wouldn't be a thread with people on it implicating so many INAPPROPRIATE and UNPROFESSIONAL acts by NURSE EDUCATORS would there? Also more puzzling, if anyone takes time to search out LVN responses to their educational experiences in general on this site - you will find that many of them have the same reaction nationwide: "overall lousy". That's a lot to be investing $30 + without so much as a "Hey, can someone give me a NO ******** assessment of is it worth it." But for some folks it must be A-OK to hand out a "30 year fixed mortgage to an 80- year old man, on what can only be described as a 2 story commode on swamp land; which was appraised (for a shady mortgage broker) as a 2 story luxury condo on beach front propery."
    My return advice to you is this...read the facts, and then hit me with the "cut and paste" ....Zen nursing is "Happy Nursing through the 'Daisy chain of love'" - tripe. There is only honesty, because without that there is no compassion, no caring....no crying with your patients or giving them a warm blanket because it justain't true...and if WE as nurses can't be truly honest...well then what are we doing but making money off the backs of those people that we are treating, healing, AND MENTORING!

    I close my reply, addressing those that are looking for Nursing Education in Orange County, CA. Re-think the LVN programs. This is a good example of the "Take it as it is...don't listen to the people that have survived...they are all just disgruntled bad eggs." I don't profess to be the sum of all total wisdom and knowledge. But I do present fact in the replies that I have put forward. Your education is too valuable to be spent wasting it on something that is better served by going the more "direct" approach. If you feel like a 4 year program is too much....do the 2 year...you will benefit over the garbage that you will be forced to OVERPAY for in way of money, energy, and spirit. It just isn't worth it. The level of dishonesty is rampant, the level of "unprofessional" conduct is unbelieveable, and the amount of grief you will expend is more well spent on worthwhile work in an ADN-RN program.
    Last edit by Silverdragon102 on Nov 30, '09 : Reason: changed to all *** and pm to member
  9. by   Delta18
    This is a follow-up to "JudeElf's" reply on this thread regarding the "validity" of my being an actual "N-U-R-S-E". As he/she put it, because of the "gossip" that has been posted by myself regarding the "unprofessionalism" that has caused colleagues of he/she (maybe even he/she is one of those nurses) to move from school to school because of dangerous, incompetent, and unprofessional nursing behavior. Now, there is no way for any of us her to verify the validity of anyone's credentials. However, YOU the potential student, now, has a very key component of the puzzle in determining if this course of action is worth:

    #1 Your hard earned money (or money you will have to pay back in interest);
    #2 Your energy and spirit (because this type of program will drain you both physically and emotionally); and
    #3 Your precious time (because once again, I reiterate that any and all time that you spend in this type of program will take any time you have away with no return).

    See, people like "JudeElf" and his/her boss don't like the fact that there are those of us that speak badly on such programs. Because it does in fact dent their pocket books. Whether they by the Owners/Administrators of the programs or if they are the peon instructors below them. The three things that I listed for you, in the previous paragraph, I can tell you - THEY DON'T GIVE A GOOD #$(%@ Rat's ***** about! You'd think that because of "honesty in nursing" they would, right? WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG! It's like hospital administrators actually caring to do what is right by the patient, as opposed to looking at what type of insurance the patient has. But for people like "JudeElf" and this goes for the "Senior Nursing staff" out there that are either part of the unprofessional junk that migrates from one school to the next (spreading their filth) or to the administrators that perpetuate dishonest/disingenuous behavior I pose the following challenge: (and quite frankly your stock answers you give to the new recruits coming in the door, says it all)

    Why is it that when the new candidate students come in, they aren't allowed to see an actual syllabus, a syllabus that has an actual approval from the administration? Or even better how about an actual review of the course curriculum documentation that is supposed to be submitted to the California Board or their accrediting educational institution? I mean YOU the student pay so much money (don't you think you should be able to see what is "under the hood"). The answer to that is "NO". They don't want you to see that the "V8" engine they sold you is actually a bunch of "mice running inside of a pin wheel".
    Ok, I think I've driven my point home in my comparing these "shysters" to Mortgage Lenders and Used Car salesmen.

    Here's the other big thing that "experienced nurse educators" like JudeElf won't tell YOU when you ask (because they themselves either don't know - or they want to keep you in the dark so you don't affect their paycheck). What is the real difference between the LVN and ADN programs. Well, the stock answer they will feed you is that the LVN program is the 1st year of an ADN program. And that is pretty much all you will get. The actual answer is this. LVN's, despite their tremendous effort in "cramming" information into 1 year of training, are looked at in complete disgust by their "cousin" nurses the ADN-RN and the BSN-RN...just like many BSN-RN's look down upon their bastard step-siblings the ADN-RNs. Why is that?! I mean we are all nurses aren't we?!? Ask a CNA how they feel and how they are treated by the Licensed Nursing Staff as a whole - you get to see the picture. Oh, and JudeElf would love to paint this "Roses and Romance" fairy tale of how nursing is professional and about loving yourself so that you can sit with a dying patient and crawl under the warm covers with them in their last hours crying and holding their hand. I'm sorry that is a load of propaganda ******. If you allow youself to get sucked into that load of crap, then the schools have you hook line and sinker. Do I, as an actual LVN, believe that we should be there for our patients at 110% absolutely; do I believe in being professional - without any equivocation! Do I believe in lying to people that ask for assistance, or lying to people who have no idea that they are being lied to? HELL, NO! I did not go through my training, pass my boards, and sign off, just to allow those people that ripped me off to do the same with what they consider to be the next round of "suckers".

    LYING is lying JudeElf. If it's blatant fabrications of the truth - just like the "truth" about the privately run LVN programs here in Orange County, CA. The truth is this folks - money well spent is not something that will be uttered even by those that graduate and pass their boards. Time well spent is also far from the lips of those that have experienced it first hand. Well gotten "gains" are not even in the minds of those of us that have come before you. You will spend the better part of a year trying to keep up. You will have roughly 1 day to study for the next days exams. Each exam consists of 50 to 100 or more sometimes, depending on your instructor. The more thorough the instructor the harder and more lengthy the exams. This is in an LVN program. Mind you, you are not given any quarter - it really is do or die. People walk into programs like this from every walk of life. I've seen people with 4 years of college under their belts to highschool drop outs in these programs. All of them with the same "I can do this" attitude....then reality sets in...and in a flash ALL of them start asking "Why didn't they warn us about this." I mean, the administration tells you that it's an "accelerated course" isn't that honest enough? YOU the prospective student answer that one. But before you do anything. I recommend going out and buying an NCLEX prep book like Saunders NCLEX PN review or Springhouse NCLEX PN review (a review book that is broken down by A&P system)...do a "review" 1 day for that system, then the next day take the actual test that is provided in that book; then after the test start studying for the next system - follow it up the next day with the corresponding test. That will give you a "simulated" version of what you will get in the program. The only difference is that the "instructor" will be you - not the vindictive, incompetent instructors that you will find rampant throughout all of these businesses.

    I'm hoping that there are those out there that will take this advice for what it is. This is an informative look at a "well structured" business that provides false hopes to those that would think that for a large some of money, they are going to get a wonderful change in life and a return on their investment. That is what a lot of people thought of the business of the now incarcerated Bernard "Bernie" Madoff. It's not so much a "ponzi" scheme, but each shool in Orange County, CA has shown itself to be just as dishonest, in addition to being just as lucrative to the unprofessional and unethical bottom feeders that run them. To the staff that would defend them, I challenge you to prove it otherwise - produce the documentation: the curriculum, the syllabus, the actual course outlines in way of detailed information for each student coming through your doors. Because you and I know that the schools cannot afford to do that.

    For those that are still considering the LVN programs in anyone of these places, know that you will be put through some of the most grueling training for 1 year. You will be getting more questions per test than those students in an ADN-RN program, because of the TIME CRUNCH factor. The way that these schools look at it is this - "It's your problem, you want a 'fast' certification, you are going to have to take all the garbage we throw at you (good or bad)." They don't care if you learn or not. The $$$ figure is all that matters. More importantly, your education that you receive is not all that it can be, because of the problems with the time crunch. You are literally "drinking from a fire hose" that is going full blast from the minute you start. At least with the ADN-RN or BSN-RN your time spent in cultivates better repetition and competencies of the material/skills you learn in programs like the LVN pathway. Plus, at the completion of even an ADN-RN program you are able to function completely without having to bug your co-workers to cover things like IVPB drugs or IV drugs. Being somewhere in the middle of the whole "power struggle" seems to be a better place to start off from, as opposed to being shucked to a place near the bottom.

    As I have been doing with my previous posts on this thread - do yourself a favor and take the honest advice from someone who has been where YOU are thinking about putting yourself. Don't make the same mistakes that so many of us have/had. Don't get suckered into thinking that these LVN programs are staffed by caring, honest individuals. There are some individuals there, I will grant you that, but not enough to outweigh the crap that becomes the embodiment of the entire institution. Reconsider all your options...take a leap and try a NCLEX PN review book as I recommended. If you score passing scores....you "MAY BE" capable of enduring the 1 year of ******** that they throw at you. Still though, in the end, with what I have thrown out there in way of prospecting jobs and clinical camaraderie is NOT there.

    Make the best informed decision that you can make. Don't just take anyone's "vague" tale of fancy as dogma. Best of luck to anyone reading this.
    Last edit by pagandeva2000 on Nov 29, '09 : Reason: changed to all **
  10. by   Delta18
    Well. I've taken a few days off of critiquing the schools, because I wanted to step back and ask a few questions from those classmates that I still remain in contact with; and I wanted to discuss my posts with those instructors and staff members that know I am posting. Surprisingly, the staff think that it's a good thing. The classmates think that I may set myself up as a "bullet magnet". But the overall consensus is that I am doing what needs to be done in order to help those that are going into this with full-on blinders. I feel as though. there should be something like this out there whether it be an actual blog or a website like the "Barron's Guide to Colleges & Universities". The reason why is to ensure these schools are compliant with meeting the necessary criteria in order to operate, showing accountability for their standings with their state boards and accrediting enitites; but more importantly - the students get an idea about which program is indeed "top notch". There are so many schools nationwide, and SoCal alone has numerous ones that all claim to be #1. But with instructors that tell you religiously, "If you mess anything up, I will KILL you." (In a very strong Filipino accent) I'm sorry. This is not a "racial" thing. But to be given that kind of verbal threat in front of staff members at facilities for which you are doing clinical hours. Ask yourself if this is
    A.) Professional Conduct for a nurse, let alone a NURSE EDUCATOR,
    B.) Would you the student consider this instructor to be a competent Nurse Educator that is going to teach you what you need to know professionally, and C.) Is the $30K+ you paid in tution costs really getting you in eductaion?

    There are those "educators" or "senior nurses" on this site and in this thread that would have the audacity to say that my bringing these issues to light is unprofessional, and by doing so goes against the "nursing code of conduct". That maybe true for the "nursing" side of keeping things compartmentalized for the sake of a unit. But as EDUCATORS - that crap goes right out the door. More importantly, if the nurse is not HONEST in everything that they do, then they are simply hypocritical of everything that comes out of their mouths as instructors. Therefore, making these "nurse code"-pulpit pumpers a bunch of hypocrites, liars, and cheats. This is why so many of them are on that "rotating conveyor belt" between schools on a regular basis. Thus, perpetuating the cycle of garbage in....screw the students....very few passing nclex. That is where your $30K+ in tuition is going....straight into Mr./Mrs. Huff-a-lotta-dump's pocket. That goes for all the programs that these schools offer whether it be LVN, RN-bridge, Massage Therapy, Scrub techs, etc.

    I just found out that CNI has got their LVN-part time program online or on track to start sometime soon. So, you spend twice the allotted time in school (when that time could have been spent on an ADN-RN) to earn a certificate that doesn't guarantee even a remote shot at what their recruiters claim you will make...worth the money? Nope. But a sure fire way for them to keep you in longer for a guaranteed pay-out for no one other than the owners. Seems like a very "honest" enterprise, huh? Be skeptical....re-evaluate what you are thinking and be better informed before you take the plunge into something that a "used-car salesman" turned account manger (at the school) tries to rope you into - because once you've signed your money over to them....it's hard to get it back. I will try to post more on different aspects of the schools - but it all boils down to the same thing - no ethics, no morals, no foundation in true "education" because none of these programs have real "nurse educators", all compounded by the fact that the curriculum at any of these places would be torn to shreds by a committee at an actual place of higher education. Most of the instructors both clinical and theory at any of these places would be laughed out of 2-yr and 4-yr programs because of a complete lack of experience/knowledge in actual teaching or for a blatant unprofessional attitude (like sleeping with your student, telling other students that you "the instructor" are out to flunk someone, or matter-o-factly your D.O.N. has no clue that her assistant D.O.N. is abusing her position and power all in the name of that D.O.N.)

    You tell me....worth the money, time, and effort? I tell you what...a 2 year wait doesn't sound so bad....
  11. by   lillor
    Wow, I'm very glad to have chosen the school I'm currently attending. I will be done with the program in approx. 5 weeks and have had great instructors, clinical and theory, except one, which I believe is now teaching at your school. We have students come in daily that have passed their boards and now have jobs as LVN's. I know of quite a few facilities that hire our students once they are licensed. Two nurses that I've had at my Dr's office both attended my school and gave it a high recommendation which is why I decided on the school that I'm currently attending. All in all, it's been a great experience for me. As an LVN, I can also go now to a community college and get into an LVN to RN bridge program.
  12. by   confused0101
    WHat school are you attending lillor?
  13. by   JudeElf
    Dear Confused, Per your question, I am not a student. I am a Nursing Instructor at an Orange County School. I have 21 years experience, but I specialize in Hospice and am a Certified Hospice & Palliative Licensed Nurse, a credential for which I took a National exam. Good luck to your career. If you have any concerns or questions, feel free to contact me. I love to mentor students and new Nurses. JudeElf

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