Delta18

The sad part is that this is yet another COMPLETE MISS by the bone head gUvAnor of Kalifornia~he was elected to lead...not to read! This moron had an actual bill on his desk back in Jan 2008 that was slated to reduce and set the cap on the ratio of nurses to patients! His reason for not signing it at the time was to avoid the financial burdens that would hit the corporate facilities. Yeah, this from the same SOB that ended up causing the huge delay in Medicare and Medicaid payments because he couldn't play nice with the state legislature! This moron doesn't have anyones best interest at heart because his Nazi wife is shmoozed by the corporate wives and their crooked husbands! This wasn't a "political" thing until "AH-nolded" started acting like he knew how to be a competent politician! But Kalifornia is Kalifornia - a mess due in large part to a people in office claiming best intentions for the people. But they are all segregated and do what is only best for their constituents, as opposed to doing what is RIGHT for safety!

In a re-response to JudeElf - "Please READ the whole thread if you are going to comment." Furthermore, do not try to impugn me, by first building yourself up to be this 21 year veteran of whatever nursing experience(s) you may have; and then somehow discounting that I have passed the NCLEX, gotten a job, and am now on a "witch" hunt against the LVN schools in Orange County, CA. For a "certified instructor", you aren't very observant or detailed oriented in your reading on this post. If that's any indication of the type of critique you are capable of - well, you students are in a boat load of trouble. More importantly, your "yogi" attitude of how I need to be schooled in the way in which I've presented FACT is completely in line with how all of these schools recruit, teach, and run their programs as a whole. That being with the utmost dishonesty and so little integrity, that you are left with nothing but ****! I am not apologetic by telling it like it is. There is no embellishment or talks of "fluff" and "good feelings" that you get with any recruitment videos on TV or the web. Quite honestly, it is through the misrepresentation of ACTUAL FACT that schools, like the one that JudeElf works for, that maintains the line of "suckers" coming and going from these places. All of which ensures that those who are pulled in are fed the same ******** with no beneficial return. You end up doing things completely on your own, because much of your "qualified instructors" cannot provide quaility education. Which leads to the following outcome - after the completion of the course work and in-house review(s), why is it that the vast majority of students still require programs like "Life Savers" or other review courses to pass their NCLEX? As a student, shouldn't you be getting all that prep for $30K. I don't think that the vast majority of students who graduate from IVY-league (top $$$) undergrad pre-med programs go to 8-36 hour review courses for the MCAT. They may purchase books to study on the side - things like MCAT Prep. But they don't need someone to RE-TEACH them everything that they have learned in 4 years. That is the summation of what you get at a program like the one that JudeElf is defending. I should have focused on what a previous student had warned me against in me going into CNI - and despite their attempts at getting me into an ADN program, I made the mistake of not taking their advice. For JudeELF - I did graduate, did finish, passed the NCLEX in 1 shot, and got a job. Is it where I want to be? For the crap that RN's seem to dole out to LVN staff? No. But aren't nurses "cut from the same cloth" - NURSE Family, right? Wrong. So JudeElf or whatever you name is, don't start feeding the unknowing reader this ******** that it's about bad attitudes - and that my "DON" needs to re-school me in the art of manners. Manners don't mean **** if there's no honesty in what a person says. Here's a question- How "respectful" is it when you. JudeELf, LIE to your patient? And don't think the "Well it depends on the circumstance" is going to buy you any reprieve. Plus, how is "misleading" or "embellishing" the truth any more honest? Like I mentioned previously, to the new students or the readers that are considering going down this path - facts are what you need, and you don't get that from the people trying to reel you in. For $30K you would think that these places would be better adept in being factual, but just as the mortgage industry thrived on "ignorance" (for JudeElf - Webster defines ignorance as a "lack of knowledge"). For the newly added "credentializing" that JudeElf has thrown up on the thread. I, just like he/she, can't prove **** - we can post all of our supposed degrees, certifications, credentials, etc. until the cows come home. It don't mean ****, what doesn't change is fact. An Assistant D.O.N. who claims that she has had 15 years in Oncology Nursing - and yet she can't name a part of the kidney as basic as the "nephron"? Come on! That is the type of education you are paying for, from people who openly state that they "aren't strong clinically" - but have 21 years of nursing experience in a 110 bed facility, hospice nursing, passed meds here and there, etc. etc. **** a nurse like that better be the strongest clinical nurse around, because of all that DIRECT PATIENT CONTACT! What the hell were you doing at all the work places you were in? They were "Clinically" intensive weren't they? Or did you work in a morgue? Or was it employment at facility after facility, jumping out when you were found to be incompetent or derelict in skills that you were hired for?! Now, you are teaching. and God only knows how your students are faring. JudeElf also mentioned that he/she is "certified"...by whom? What actual EDUCATION credentials do you carry? A Bachelors in what? If it's education - that alone doesn't qualify you to teach "Vocational Education" classes. There are very specific education courses that are warranted by WASC and accrediting agencies like them that actual CERTIFY instructors to teach vocational courses. In review of ALL the schools that I listed - NOT 1 has a complete load of instructors who are ALL qualified in that regard. They may be "nurses"....but certified NURSE EDUCATORS only come from 2 places - Nurse's who have Bachelors degrees in education with specific class that are geared toward Vocational Education, Curriculum & Course development. Or they are instructors who have completed an MSN as nurse educators, their completion is marked by a passing grade in an actual course geared specifically to "Nursing Education Course Curriculum and Design". With JudeElf's explanation of what "qualifies" him/her - says volumes about Yes, he/she has worked extensively at heavy clinical facilities for the past 21 years, BUUUUUT - "he/she isn't strong clinically". Yet, he/she is teaching in a program that is HEAVY in BOTH clinic and theory. Why? Because YOU the student pay $30K to "Drink from the fire hose". You are expected to learn in mind and hands-on; and yet you have instructors like JudeElf that would simply tell you the student - "Well, I'm not too strong in clinical. But don't worry there are OTHER instructors here who can pick up my slack." NICE! The student pays top dollar to be "passed around" between people who CLAIM so much, yet can deliver so little. I'm not ashamed for bringing the TRUTH to light. Because it's not fair. It's more than dishonest...it's like someone robbing you of $30K and then making you feel guilty for them having to rob you. Rest assured, this is not the last that you will hear from JudeElf proclaiming every excuse in the world about why he/she is the "righteous" nurse and the embodiment of Florence Nightingale herself. Yet, again, JudeElf has done nothing to disprove what is FACT, and that is - the schools in the Orange County, CA area all share in a communal **** pot of employees/employment. They do not employ the best, because the best are the actually "qualified" nurses who are teaching at programs in either the community colleges or 4 year colleges. Mind you, I will concede that there are "bad" instructors at those places of higher learning, yet the programs are scrutinized more heavily and professionally, that to allow the crap that goes on at any of the 1 year private OC Schools would result in a revocation of accreditation or complete shutdown of the program. The level of accountability in these 1 year programs is horrendous, it is superficial at best - and there is no recourse in you filing a grievance with anyone other than the State Board. And the State Board of Vocational Nurses and Psych Techs is so inundated with work, while be hamstrung by the state budget, that a "complaint" would take years to follow-up on. Plus, the schools all force you to sign an arbitration agreement. So suing them in open court is out....you don't get **** back for what you put in. So, for those that think that this is a "grudge" thing...that would be simply petty. That is what these schools want you to think. What they don't want you to see is that the core value of honesty is being openly neglected through their recruitment and lack of competent instruction. There is a level of accountability that WE as nurses must all be held to. It's not just the oath that we take, it's not just the ability to hold that person's life in our hands - it's more important than that. Why do you think the State Board runs a background check on you before you get your license. It's HONESTY, complete openness - an unobstructed or unbiased look into what you are! So here's the deal, I could care less about an individual who prides themselves in being something that they think that they are - a nurse that is willing to keep the truth buried. Screw that noise! It's all about bringing the **** to the top for everyone to see. JudeElf and the detractors...you still have yet to answer how these "bad" instructors keep getting recycled at all of these schools. More importantly, why is it so necessary for people like me to be labeled as students with a grudged? What's there to hide? Is it incompetence? Is it unprofessional conduct by educators? Why all the "abstract" thought on what goes on in your programs - why isn't there anything concrete to show? I'll tell you why - it's gross dishonesty at its best. Just as I compared the Mortgage Lending Industry to these types of Schools in the previous posts on this thread. the fact remains that people don't get to see the goings-on that occur in these schools. Despite what the recruiters, administrators, and even "qualified" instructors my say. $30K is A LOT of money. Yes, there will always be the dissenter in the ranks. But institutions like the one's being spoken of, will forever use that excuse to blind-side and openly LIE to those people that don't know any better. As a 21 year veteran nurse, COMPLETE honesty should be a wholly ingrained paradigm in more than just your vocabulary - it should be CORE SKILL that is followed to the "T". But "bravo" on your being a veteran of this and that, with experiences here and there in whatever (super-medical hospice family-care, blanket providing, crying with you patient. holding hand singing "kumbaya" while administering medication) facility(ies) you may have worked in. Still, that does not mean diddly squat if you forget the basis of what a NURSE is - a nurse is above all HONEST in every endeavor and all aspects of their life. I've got no skeletons to hide in what I am - a hard working honesty nurse, who is looking out for those that don't know any better. I'm a nurse that believes that NURSES are not bound by a institution(s) or by their co-workers to LIE, CHEAT, or STEAL - and that includes the "taking advantage" of those less knowledgeable. Back to JudeElf, take the "kumbaya" attitude and keep it for the students you've suckered - I'm pretty sure they are going to be asking, "Why the **** am I having to pay additional $$$ to take a 'review course' when I should have learned the core essentials to pass the NCLEX in Mr./Ms. JudeElf's class?!" One thing that remains constant is the way that these business/schools swap employees - it can be compared to HIV positive drug addicts swapping needles. The attitude that most of these places want you to have is, "once they've been infected....Oooh well!"

Well. I've taken a few days off of critiquing the schools, because I wanted to step back and ask a few questions from those classmates that I still remain in contact with; and I wanted to discuss my posts with those instructors and staff members that know I am posting. Surprisingly, the staff think that it's a good thing. The classmates think that I may set myself up as a "bullet magnet". But the overall consensus is that I am doing what needs to be done in order to help those that are going into this with full-on blinders. I feel as though. there should be something like this out there whether it be an actual blog or a website like the "Barron's Guide to Colleges & Universities". The reason why is to ensure these schools are compliant with meeting the necessary criteria in order to operate, showing accountability for their standings with their state boards and accrediting enitites; but more importantly - the students get an idea about which program is indeed "top notch". There are so many schools nationwide, and SoCal alone has numerous ones that all claim to be #1. But with instructors that tell you religiously, "If you mess anything up, I will KILL you." (In a very strong Filipino accent) I'm sorry. This is not a "racial" thing. But to be given that kind of verbal threat in front of staff members at facilities for which you are doing clinical hours. Ask yourself if this is A.) Professional Conduct for a nurse, let alone a NURSE EDUCATOR, B.) Would you the student consider this instructor to be a competent Nurse Educator that is going to teach you what you need to know professionally, and C.) Is the $30K+ you paid in tution costs really getting you in eductaion? There are those "educators" or "senior nurses" on this site and in this thread that would have the audacity to say that my bringing these issues to light is unprofessional, and by doing so goes against the "nursing code of conduct". That maybe true for the "nursing" side of keeping things compartmentalized for the sake of a unit. But as EDUCATORS - that crap goes right out the door. More importantly, if the nurse is not HONEST in everything that they do, then they are simply hypocritical of everything that comes out of their mouths as instructors. Therefore, making these "nurse code"-pulpit pumpers a bunch of hypocrites, liars, and cheats. This is why so many of them are on that "rotating conveyor belt" between schools on a regular basis. Thus, perpetuating the cycle of garbage in....screw the students....very few passing nclex. That is where your $30K+ in tuition is going....straight into Mr./Mrs. Huff-a-lotta-dump's pocket. That goes for all the programs that these schools offer whether it be LVN, RN-bridge, Massage Therapy, Scrub techs, etc. I just found out that CNI has got their LVN-part time program online or on track to start sometime soon. So, you spend twice the allotted time in school (when that time could have been spent on an ADN-RN) to earn a certificate that doesn't guarantee even a remote shot at what their recruiters claim you will make...worth the money? Nope. But a sure fire way for them to keep you in longer for a guaranteed pay-out for no one other than the owners. Seems like a very "honest" enterprise, huh? Be skeptical....re-evaluate what you are thinking and be better informed before you take the plunge into something that a "used-car salesman" turned account manger (at the school) tries to rope you into - because once you've signed your money over to them....it's hard to get it back. I will try to post more on different aspects of the schools - but it all boils down to the same thing - no ethics, no morals, no foundation in true "education" because none of these programs have real "nurse educators", all compounded by the fact that the curriculum at any of these places would be torn to shreds by a committee at an actual place of higher education. Most of the instructors both clinical and theory at any of these places would be laughed out of 2-yr and 4-yr programs because of a complete lack of experience/knowledge in actual teaching or for a blatant unprofessional attitude (like sleeping with your student, telling other students that you "the instructor" are out to flunk someone, or matter-o-factly your D.O.N. has no clue that her assistant D.O.N. is abusing her position and power all in the name of that D.O.N.) You tell me....worth the money, time, and effort? I tell you what...a 2 year wait doesn't sound so bad....

This is a follow-up to "JudeElf's" reply on this thread regarding the "validity" of my being an actual "N-U-R-S-E". As he/she put it, because of the "gossip" that has been posted by myself regarding the "unprofessionalism" that has caused colleagues of he/she (maybe even he/she is one of those nurses) to move from school to school because of dangerous, incompetent, and unprofessional nursing behavior. Now, there is no way for any of us her to verify the validity of anyone's credentials. However, YOU the potential student, now, has a very key component of the puzzle in determining if this course of action is worth: #1 Your hard earned money (or money you will have to pay back in interest); #2 Your energy and spirit (because this type of program will drain you both physically and emotionally); and #3 Your precious time (because once again, I reiterate that any and all time that you spend in this type of program will take any time you have away with no return). See, people like "JudeElf" and his/her boss don't like the fact that there are those of us that speak badly on such programs. Because it does in fact dent their pocket books. Whether they by the Owners/Administrators of the programs or if they are the peon instructors below them. The three things that I listed for you, in the previous paragraph, I can tell you - THEY DON'T GIVE A GOOD #$(%@ Rat's ***** about! You'd think that because of "honesty in nursing" they would, right? WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG! It's like hospital administrators actually caring to do what is right by the patient, as opposed to looking at what type of insurance the patient has. But for people like "JudeElf" and this goes for the "Senior Nursing staff" out there that are either part of the unprofessional junk that migrates from one school to the next (spreading their filth) or to the administrators that perpetuate dishonest/disingenuous behavior I pose the following challenge: (and quite frankly your stock answers you give to the new recruits coming in the door, says it all) Why is it that when the new candidate students come in, they aren't allowed to see an actual syllabus, a syllabus that has an actual approval from the administration? Or even better how about an actual review of the course curriculum documentation that is supposed to be submitted to the California Board or their accrediting educational institution? I mean YOU the student pay so much money (don't you think you should be able to see what is "under the hood"). The answer to that is "NO". They don't want you to see that the "V8" engine they sold you is actually a bunch of "mice running inside of a pin wheel". Ok, I think I've driven my point home in my comparing these "shysters" to Mortgage Lenders and Used Car salesmen. Here's the other big thing that "experienced nurse educators" like JudeElf won't tell YOU when you ask (because they themselves either don't know - or they want to keep you in the dark so you don't affect their paycheck). What is the real difference between the LVN and ADN programs. Well, the stock answer they will feed you is that the LVN program is the 1st year of an ADN program. And that is pretty much all you will get. The actual answer is this. LVN's, despite their tremendous effort in "cramming" information into 1 year of training, are looked at in complete disgust by their "cousin" nurses the ADN-RN and the BSN-RN...just like many BSN-RN's look down upon their bastard step-siblings the ADN-RNs. Why is that?! I mean we are all nurses aren't we?!? Ask a CNA how they feel and how they are treated by the Licensed Nursing Staff as a whole - you get to see the picture. Oh, and JudeElf would love to paint this "Roses and Romance" fairy tale of how nursing is professional and about loving yourself so that you can sit with a dying patient and crawl under the warm covers with them in their last hours crying and holding their hand. I'm sorry that is a load of propaganda ******. If you allow youself to get sucked into that load of crap, then the schools have you hook line and sinker. Do I, as an actual LVN, believe that we should be there for our patients at 110% absolutely; do I believe in being professional - without any equivocation! Do I believe in lying to people that ask for assistance, or lying to people who have no idea that they are being lied to? HELL, NO! I did not go through my training, pass my boards, and sign off, just to allow those people that ripped me off to do the same with what they consider to be the next round of "suckers". LYING is lying JudeElf. If it's blatant fabrications of the truth - just like the "truth" about the privately run LVN programs here in Orange County, CA. The truth is this folks - money well spent is not something that will be uttered even by those that graduate and pass their boards. Time well spent is also far from the lips of those that have experienced it first hand. Well gotten "gains" are not even in the minds of those of us that have come before you. You will spend the better part of a year trying to keep up. You will have roughly 1 day to study for the next days exams. Each exam consists of 50 to 100 or more sometimes, depending on your instructor. The more thorough the instructor the harder and more lengthy the exams. This is in an LVN program. Mind you, you are not given any quarter - it really is do or die. People walk into programs like this from every walk of life. I've seen people with 4 years of college under their belts to highschool drop outs in these programs. All of them with the same "I can do this" attitude....then reality sets in...and in a flash ALL of them start asking "Why didn't they warn us about this." I mean, the administration tells you that it's an "accelerated course" isn't that honest enough? YOU the prospective student answer that one. But before you do anything. I recommend going out and buying an NCLEX prep book like Saunders NCLEX PN review or Springhouse NCLEX PN review (a review book that is broken down by A&P system)...do a "review" 1 day for that system, then the next day take the actual test that is provided in that book; then after the test start studying for the next system - follow it up the next day with the corresponding test. That will give you a "simulated" version of what you will get in the program. The only difference is that the "instructor" will be you - not the vindictive, incompetent instructors that you will find rampant throughout all of these businesses. I'm hoping that there are those out there that will take this advice for what it is. This is an informative look at a "well structured" business that provides false hopes to those that would think that for a large some of money, they are going to get a wonderful change in life and a return on their investment. That is what a lot of people thought of the business of the now incarcerated Bernard "Bernie" Madoff. It's not so much a "ponzi" scheme, but each shool in Orange County, CA has shown itself to be just as dishonest, in addition to being just as lucrative to the unprofessional and unethical bottom feeders that run them. To the staff that would defend them, I challenge you to prove it otherwise - produce the documentation: the curriculum, the syllabus, the actual course outlines in way of detailed information for each student coming through your doors. Because you and I know that the schools cannot afford to do that. For those that are still considering the LVN programs in anyone of these places, know that you will be put through some of the most grueling training for 1 year. You will be getting more questions per test than those students in an ADN-RN program, because of the TIME CRUNCH factor. The way that these schools look at it is this - "It's your problem, you want a 'fast' certification, you are going to have to take all the garbage we throw at you (good or bad)." They don't care if you learn or not. The $$$ figure is all that matters. More importantly, your education that you receive is not all that it can be, because of the problems with the time crunch. You are literally "drinking from a fire hose" that is going full blast from the minute you start. At least with the ADN-RN or BSN-RN your time spent in cultivates better repetition and competencies of the material/skills you learn in programs like the LVN pathway. Plus, at the completion of even an ADN-RN program you are able to function completely without having to bug your co-workers to cover things like IVPB drugs or IV drugs. Being somewhere in the middle of the whole "power struggle" seems to be a better place to start off from, as opposed to being shucked to a place near the bottom. As I have been doing with my previous posts on this thread - do yourself a favor and take the honest advice from someone who has been where YOU are thinking about putting yourself. Don't make the same mistakes that so many of us have/had. Don't get suckered into thinking that these LVN programs are staffed by caring, honest individuals. There are some individuals there, I will grant you that, but not enough to outweigh the crap that becomes the embodiment of the entire institution. Reconsider all your options...take a leap and try a NCLEX PN review book as I recommended. If you score passing scores....you "MAY BE" capable of enduring the 1 year of ******** that they throw at you. Still though, in the end, with what I have thrown out there in way of prospecting jobs and clinical camaraderie is NOT there. Make the best informed decision that you can make. Don't just take anyone's "vague" tale of fancy as dogma. Best of luck to anyone reading this.

Self-respect comes from being honest with yourself, yes. But it also comes with being HONEST with people who ask for it! The schools listed and the one you work for all share that "shroud" of keeping things in the dark...."CYA because we don't want the bad stuff shutting us down." I could care less about a colleague who breaks the rules, beds down a student, and goes berserk because of a rumor. Or a school covering up a med-error because a student is a 3 year repeat....only because the school looks at them as a $$$ figure. You want to "keep people in the dark", fine - your conscience; your prerogative. I for one have found my "zen" in speaking the truth. I will take the best...and abandon what I call "professional hypocrisy" in my wake. I will sight what is wrong - because nurses are ADVOCATES for those that cannot be advocates for themselves. That includes those that ask for assistance and for those people (not just patients) that have no real understanding of what goes on in these places. And if that dents your pocket book because your "sucker" ratio is down...tough! The truth is the truth. And apparently, in your haste to what I call "CREDENTIALIZE" yourself, you seemed to have skipped over a lot of the "facts" that you seem to be spouting off about. I love nurses like you...."I did this...I did that...I teach here" as if that changes the fact that you have NOT disproven anything that has been written here. I think instructors NEED the naive and stupid individuals that waltz into the admissions offices, because it ensures that you have a "sideline" job to supplement your sagging paycheck. (I mean it must be hard being an LVN and going to school at the same time). Again, nothing in your credentials shows that you are a certified teacher. Certified nurse yes, but as a "VOCATIONAL INSTRUCTOR" - how many contact hours have you spent on course curriculum and design for vocational education? How many college classes have you taken on getting certified as a vocational instructor/educator? In many places that's requried...places that exist outside of California - that have much better passing rates than the schools listed. Is it a wonder that private schools take ANYONE off the street, or for that matter any "nurse" with clinical experience. I mean any bag of skin off the street, who cares if they've had 15 write ups in the last year, from an institution that they carefully omit from their resume. Just as long as they haven't killed anyone - woefully incompetent, yes...just not a convicted "whoops killed another one" kind of nurse. Funny thing in reading your reply, the "suicide" issue that was brought up was in regards to a support staff member who in fact could not cope with the issues that were being thrown their way - from a D.O.N. who is a "veteran nurse" - who spouts off like a bad case of diarrhea about "Being professional, prompt, and full of compassion. This is the same D.O.N. who looks at a student and tells that student that they need to quit working (the student was putting themselves through school) and just let their parents pay for the school bills; and just to pay them back afterwards. You, JudeElf want to talk about your boss or someone who was probably "cloned" from the same pile of manure they were? It really is funny how that term gets thrown around a lot - "Veteran"....in order to be a veteran, you need to be competent at the trade-craft in which you are trained (in ALL aspects and if you aren't well you are expected to master that which you are most weak in) - isn't that what you expect of your students? And yet at all of these schools - only a hand full of instructors can actually walk-the-walk as being "NURSES". The word competent simply defined is equitable to "learned"....you've achieved a certain understanding in terms of nursing. Compassion...as a nurse...even to those patients or otherwise that are not as "kind" to you...your patient who tells you to go to hell. As a "learned" nurse you provide compassion despite the patient block. "JudeElf" or whatever your tag name is. I really don't care how much you think your critique of the posts impact my sense of "nursing" or what you seem to be calling my "high-horse attitude" is on this thread, because one thing that these private LVN schools in Orange County, CA ALL have is a level of dishonesty that I very much equate to the problematic mortgage industry that has caused massive waves that have ripped through our state and nation, all of which has had a global impact. And why is that "Oh learned sage"? How can I think that these two issues are remotely comparable?! Because there was NO HONESTY on the part of those business, account managers, brokers, owners, etc. In addition to the fact that there was no strict oversight - a very competent oversight into the conduct of ALL mortgage lenders (big and small) - just like there is NO scrutinizing these PRIVATE and public LVN schools that have popped up all over the place, that is until there is a sentinal incident linked to the school. Lastly, and this is a BIG one - HYPOCRICY. The schools are "do as we say, not as we do", and that my "Elder nurse" is something that you are a big part of - in the simplicity of your statement, students are expected to maintain a certain level of professionalism. Yet, still an instructor or administrator can disregard those rules and still function as PAID faculty at these schools. So as a student, my hard earned money went/goes to pay for your pay check bubba. So here's BRAIN CHECK TIME professor - you go to buy a car...a lot of money right? But the salesman says we got the car for you, you just can't see it until you buy it, oh, and that's the only time you get to drive it...no test drive...no papers...nothing concrete until you are 1500 miles in - and then there's no returns or refunds. Do YOU buy the car? If you do "Jude" it's a wonder you are teaching at ONE of these schools. Makes me think about how many of these schools in the Orange County area you've taught in. I don't know if you are part of the solution...that will have to be judged by how your students "rate" you. Here's the cold hard truth People are ready to dole out the advice about "being professional by just roling over and playing the 'whacking board' for your education." Mind you I believe in being professional, being on time, and bringing your "A" game to each day that you are a nurse-in-training and as a nurse. But to take it up the *** because someone says to do it - even though you know for a fact that you are following the "rules" to the letter. NO WAY! That's how people get shoved into box cars and marched into gas chambers and ovens. More importantly, the advice that you are so ready to dole out doesn't give anyone any REAL/CONCRETE insight or solution to the "issue" in question - the original TITLE OF THE THREAD...."Orange County CA LVN schools - which is best?" I maintain my answer through my replies on this thread - THERE ARE NONE! These schools are like directly linked petri dishes that are all culturing veneral disease. They are so closely intertwind, despite being competitors, that their "filth" gets distributed so quickly. Now, for the curious student and the critic out there - I also maintain that there are the golden nuggets that you will find (the teachers/instructors in theory and clinical) who will go above and beyond what is expected of them - in order to try to EDUCATE the students. This is often to their own detriment, because either the school doesn't compensate these few instructors; or the instructors are reprimanded for giving of themselves without the consent of the administration. For the students that are out there - I pose the same series of questions: Why spend $30K on something that has "little-to-no gain" potential? All to pay top dollar to some instructor who is out there trying to make a living at a school, because they either 1.) Don't really want to be a nurse...and well let's face it, they paid top dollar for that nursing license...this is the only way they can keep it or 2.) They themselves are putting themselves through school. Granted the ones doing their MSN or NP - they are tracked to do well and they are usually the ones that put in the time to get you through. But the ones that are on and off 5+ years as LVNs working on getting their RNs. I gotta say...the out look is "Bah-leak". The reason is that they themselves are often looked at as being the "bottom feeders" by most of their colleagues. And mind you....a lot of them don't fair well at clinical sites because they themselves are met with opposition from RN staff at the facilities because they themselves are bound by the scope of practice as LVNs. So in short - your education as an LVN at a SNF may thrive with and LVN instructor. But God forbid you get to an acute hospital and you have to assist with a patient who needs an RN with experience, because your LVN instructor is in the same boat you are in - "Stuck up ****** creek without a RN to help you paddle." In closing, any "STAFF NURSES"/Administrators from the various Orange County, CA schools....here's what's up with "bloggin". Honesty. And if it offends your delicate sensibilites that someone is voicing a negative opinion of your beloved place of work - or a class you are teaching. Read it, and if it's full of profanity or just plain garbage. Well, then let it be. But if it is full of a good insight into what is happening around your area of "higher education" - FIX THE PROBLEMS! Oh, and the follow "chain of command". Please, people should know that ****** trickles down....it never goes UP! So if that be the case, then do I think that these schools are going to remedy anything? If that was the case, then there wouldn't be a thread with people on it implicating so many INAPPROPRIATE and UNPROFESSIONAL acts by NURSE EDUCATORS would there? Also more puzzling, if anyone takes time to search out LVN responses to their educational experiences in general on this site - you will find that many of them have the same reaction nationwide: "overall lousy". That's a lot to be investing $30 + without so much as a "Hey, can someone give me a NO ******** assessment of is it worth it." But for some folks it must be A-OK to hand out a "30 year fixed mortgage to an 80- year old man, on what can only be described as a 2 story commode on swamp land; which was appraised (for a shady mortgage broker) as a 2 story luxury condo on beach front propery." My return advice to you is this...read the facts, and then hit me with the "cut and paste" ....Zen nursing is "Happy Nursing through the 'Daisy chain of love'" - tripe. There is only honesty, because without that there is no compassion, no caring....no crying with your patients or giving them a warm blanket because it justain't true...and if WE as nurses can't be truly honest...well then what are we doing but making money off the backs of those people that we are treating, healing, AND MENTORING! I close my reply, addressing those that are looking for Nursing Education in Orange County, CA. Re-think the LVN programs. This is a good example of the "Take it as it is...don't listen to the people that have survived...they are all just disgruntled bad eggs." I don't profess to be the sum of all total wisdom and knowledge. But I do present fact in the replies that I have put forward. Your education is too valuable to be spent wasting it on something that is better served by going the more "direct" approach. If you feel like a 4 year program is too much....do the 2 year...you will benefit over the garbage that you will be forced to OVERPAY for in way of money, energy, and spirit. It just isn't worth it. The level of dishonesty is rampant, the level of "unprofessional" conduct is unbelieveable, and the amount of grief you will expend is more well spent on worthwhile work in an ADN-RN program.

Tammy makes a good point in her statement. Not implying anything about Tammy's background. But here's another thing that the schools do not tell you right off. In the event that you have an issue with your background....ie, criminal or any offense - the state board automatically flags your application...and it can take anywhere from a month to a few MORE months to clear you - still there is always the possibility (depending on the timing of the infraction, the severity of the infraction, and the issues surrounding how you are dealing with making amends for the infraction). Still even with that in your mind...now comes the even trickier part of trying to get your D.O.N., Dean of the college, Program Specialist, etc. (whoever is in charge of your getting your paper work to the board) - the school's standing with the board can also delay your applications packet being received/opened/processed. It is that simple. More time in between all the prep that you've done to get to the NCLEX. It sucks, but a lot of this essential stuff is never covered by your school during your admissions process. Tammy indicated in the quote above that she graduated in Oct 2008 and then 6 months later she took her NCLEX. That's a long time to wait to take the NCLEX. Obviously, Tammy was studying and prepping...which was a good thing. But if the wait was whittled down to 1 to 2 months at the most (Tammy prepped before graduation and was ready to take the NCLEX right after graduation night....assuming that Pacific College got Tammy's packet to the board and things cleared in a 2 week period) then that would leave Tammy to hunt for a job no more than 2 months after she graduated, passed the NCLEX and moved on. So the big question is why are all of these schools (for the majority of their students) having such a difficult time getting their students to the board? Why is it taking so long for the students to get to take the NCLEX? Is it the prep work they are doing? Is that prep work even remotely adequate to get a student ready to take the NCLEX right after graduation? Isn't that what $30K is supposed to get you? Why do students end up taking prep work outside of the confines of the school - paying MORE money for prep work they should be getting at the schools, I mean this with all the "OVER qualified" teachers and administrators at these schools. This is more food for thought for those that are considering the route of LVN schools in Orange County California. As with all my other posts on this thread - RE-THINK a rushed decision into the quagmire of $#!# that these schools are, and DO NOT be fooled like so many of us who have come before you! Heed the warnings!!!

It doesn't matter what year or month I graduated from CNI, truth be told all of that is as relevant as how many "awards" **** gives you. The reason I say this, is because every term that graduates always has a "valedictorian" (whoo hoo) - many of them don't deserve it...a great many of them are actually "given" the title through manipulation of grades. The sad fact is that our valedictorian after 1 year has still not found himself a job. Most impressive for a "straight A" student (who cheated most of the way up) and now cannot pass the NCLEX despite going through the "Lifesavers NCLEX review" TWICE! But this was supposed to be about "me"...I graduated in the middle of the pack with a gpa of 3.15, passed my NCLEX first shot. Then with a lot of slogging through "monster, career builder, job finder,etc. etc." it took me over 6 months to find the job that I am currently in. This is also something that they conveniently omit from your "learning" or the "advisement" period you go through before entering. So you are pretty much screwed even when you start the program. A drunk hobo would nave a better chance of falling into Paris Hilton's lap on a Saturday night, than a new grad LVN finding a job in the Orange County right now....circa 11/2009. So to those that doubt this statistic...see how many interviewers will give you the time of day with "New Grad/No actual experience other than my education" indicated or hinted on your resume. And if you are thinking of "creatively" fibbing about your experience...remember they check that stuff - and as a nurse...if you lie and get caught that's an instant :lol_hitti:smackingf So once again...going with the ADN or RN program doesn't seem so bad after all.

No...and you'd think within a couple of months you could secure something here in the Orange County area. But the truth is - the bad economy has sucked all the openings dry. One thing that the schools won't tell you because that is not their concern, is that LVNs are not as in demand as RNs - in ANY clinical area Military, V.A. hospitals/clinics, hospitals, and even SNFs. The reason why is primarily focused on the scope of practice. The facilities need people who are able to do EVERYTHING short of being doctors. The belief that an RN in a crisis SHOULD be able to problem solve with less restrictions than an LVN. Furthermore, the issue of facilities phasing out LVN positions is on the rise...your schools - especially ACC and CNI will not tell you this. Placentia Linda Hospital and Fountain Valley (both Tenet owned) have phased out their LVN hiring....those LVNs on staff are either being systematically replaced or made aware that they need to get into an RN program somewhere to retain their jobs. Places like Hoag and Mission Hospital (St. Joe's) are closed to the idea of LVNs - the attitude at the H/R offices are "Don't even bother". Kaiser for awhile toyed with the idea of phasing out CNA's/UAP's and replacing them with LVNs. But that led to a feeding frenzy, and I think they shut their doors to "new grads". Which brings me to the next and most devastating reality check for any students that are in any LVN schools here in California - it is the #1 reason why places are not hiring new graduates; and this is listed on the application forms you will be filling out -----------> "Do you have any experience as an LVN?" And the majority of the time the answer will be "Duh! I'm a NEW GRAD =====> Of course NOT!" That right there is the deal killer. Most places, including Long Beach V.A. Hospital will state that they require you to have 1-2-3 years of experience. Kinda make you wonder why the folks at admissions or your "1st day of orientation" didn't give you this information, huh? :angryfire Now, there are those students who will find it a lot easier to wedge themselves into a "women's clinic" - guess what sex you have to be to get lucky to fill those positions .... mind you an LVN with a p3nis need not apply because they wouldn't get hired unless they were tri-lingual (English, Spanish, and Vietnamese) living on the border of Garden Grove and Santa Ana! (Racist and Sexist? You'd think that wouldn't be the case with nursing - for guys and the English only speakers....that's reality). There is also another trend that I've noticed, and that deals with "student nurses" who transfer over from being EMTs or Med. Assistants....they actually can claim "experience" - so they have it a little easier "greasing" the H/R departments into hiring them. There was a guy who I knew who worked at Fountain Valley Regional as an LVN in the DOU...he always said that because he had experience as and EMT and is an American Heart/American Red Cross Instructor; plus he belonged to a bunch of disaster programs...were the reasons how he got hired. I mean the guy was one of those guys who was on top of everything...he was very competent and knowledgeable. Plus, he is a nurse that I would trust in any situation. This brings me to the last point of interest for "new nurses" out there. You will hit a wall looking (for whatever time it takes for you to actually land a job :hdvwl:) - that first job. This is economics. The phrase "there is a nursing shortage" is true....but it's also ********. Not everything can be blamed on the bad economy, yet that has contributed to what I call "over retention". Nurses (supposedly retiring nursing as well as those younger nurses would normally "slack" at their jobs) are staying on. They are not taking retirement; they are not calling in sick; and they are taking shifts wherever they can. "So what?" you ask. Well, think about it. This fact added to the fact that facilities cannot "afford" to hire - especially after Gov. Swartzenheimer and the California legislature failed in passing a budget on time, and all that $$$ that was supposed to fund programs were severely delayed....do the math. You'd think that the stupid politicians would have been thinking about the actual better good of the people....the patients, the facilities, the medical/psych programs, and of course (personnel who's livelihood depends upon that funding) - the nurses. So, this is what I call "new grads" getting screwed - the school's lie to you (both intentionally and unintentionally); then you get openly screwed by the economy! I know that this is a very dismal look at job hunting...but this is a reality check for those that are in it and those that are thinking about joining this club of "bastards" - because as an LVN...we really are a bunch of "red-headed step children" in the eyes of the medical community....no one knows how to utilize us...and to many of our RN brother and sisters - we (LVNs) don't deserve a place at the table! As I stated before...this is :sfxpld: waiting to happen...just as the mortgage industry was. Places like CNI, ACC, Concorde, and Stanbridge will have to answer for predatory business practices. And of course they will all use the "benevolence" of Nurse Education as a shield. However, for those that are thinking about coming into this field...there is NOTHING sacred or holy about nursing...when it comes to THIS (LVN-private school) type of education!

To "confused0101" - I'm finished with school and received my license last year. I've kept in touch with many of the staff at CNI and some of the other colleges I listed, because I was able to build a friendship with a lot of them. They've all given me sound advice on what to do to get past the NCLEX and to get myself out of that "mine field"! R.O.P. programs here in Orange County are a mixed bag - the one thing that cannot be argued is this..."What you put into it, you will get back." Anyone who enrolls in both public and private programs will find that they are surrounded by people of different maturity levels. They have both the capability of making an outstanding class -or- a class that stands out. "So what?" you may ask. The problem with the class that stands out - is for it's notorious offenders, like my class had. There were cheaters, people who were consistent flunk outs because all they would do is complain about their failures being everyone's fault except their own. Of course, there is always the "overachiever" when it came to causing our class to be held back - our favorite class dip $#!t who would get drunk in the back, because she said she couldn't understand our Jordanian instructor. The funny thing, is that 80% of the class did well in that instructor's class. The other 20% including the "lush" were the idiots who slept in the back of the classroom from term 1 through 4. For anyone thinking about an LVN program...re-think the ASN. It's more time...yes, but you can still challenge the board in pretty much all states - if you meet the requirements for an LVN license, while you are in the ASN program. That's advice I wish I had, before I went through the hassles.

One thing that I forgot, to add to what I had posted was the fact that all the schools in the Orange County area of California "share" instructors like venereal disease. Granted not all the instructors are bad. But the bad ones definitely circulate...and they get let go, but they get picked up again and again. They do something stupid or unsafe; they lose a clinical site; or they do something that angers management - and what ends up happening is that they move from site to site. I also forgot to mention Pacific College down in Costa Mesa. At all of these LVN schools?! ABSOLUTELY, I was party to watching a clinical nurse from ACC, who was trying to get into CNI, remove an NG-tube from a patient in the ED at a local hospital. She yanked the think clear out like a "whip" (like Indiana Jones) and lets the thing drop to the floor - and states to the students present "You have to do it like that, with NO FEAR!" Picture Indiana Jones drawing his whip and using it...that's what it looked like. A staff nurse at the hospital saw this, reported it to Ms.D (not real name but another instructor) and said the instructor was not to be allowed at the facility ever again - the clinical instructor was let go the following Monday (not passing her "probation". Ms. P (again not real name) another clinical instructor for CNI lost a psyche facility because she could not make med-pass on time. She blamed the students, and the students were "scape goated" by the D.O.N. and the administrators. Ms. P also instructed students to "lance" themselves for blood glucose tests while at a facility. #1 Infection control VIOLATION! HELLO!!! #2 OSHA VIOLATION because the facility now has 12-15 students with sharps injuries all obtained at a clinical site!!! #3 Blood borne pathogen exposure/Open wounds around some patients that have things like MRSA; VRE; and ESBL - not to mention HIV/AIDS. You would think she'd have double thought that one - but when confronted, her rationale was (actually quoted) "You students must feel the pain that your patients feel." This is probably one of the stupidest things that I have ever heard come out of a human being! You want to do "sharps" training for blood glucose testing - you do it in a CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT where you and your school are covered by insurance, and the students are not exposing patients to what is in their blood - and more importantly you students are not exposed to harmful pathogens that now have easy access to a wound! DUH! Ms. D still is gainfully employed by Ms. P As a graduate of CNI, I was also in the predicament that a lot of people are in regards to what to do - especially in this down economy. I actually went to every one of the schools and did their entrance exams and interviews, I even went as far as to run financial aid at 2 of them when I narrowed it down to who I thought would have been the better of the bunch. None of them in my opinion were "best". They all have their "perks" that they try to throw your way - Stanbridge offers a "free" PDA and Laptop (it's part of the tuition - it ain't free), and much to an IT certified tech's disapproval both items are JUNK! You can spend your own money and get much better stuff for less! That's their way of roping you in. CNI does it through "extra NCLEX prep" that is offered at "no extra charge". Yeah, you pay for it with your initial fees. Same deal with the "freebys". There is no such thing as "free" with these people. More importantly, they say they are "saving" you something - no they are not. The owners of CNI - Mr.& Mrs. "H" (remember no names) are definitely in this for the money. They pour on this sob story about their son being treated for cancer or something back in the 90s, and they were so impressed with the staff at a local hospital, that they decided to "open a school to educate nurses." It's ******** - they didn't DONATE money to add needed staff at the hospital - they decided to make $$$ on the production of nurses. They are in a constant battle with the instructors at CNI who actually are about teaching - the arguments stem from text books that are poorly written to why the instructors are monitored via closed circuit cameras in every one of the rooms on campus. Yet, mediocre instructors get away with gross negligence and incompetence. The owners also forbade the D.O.N. from allowing instructors to issue course syllabus during all the terms at CNI. Why? Because they don't have an actual curriculum. It is sad to say that the California Board of Vocational Nursing does not actually do their job when it comes to the auditing of a facility like this. In order to combat the spread of incompetence and predatory educational recruitment, you would think that California would monitor these schools more closely. But NO, it is going to take something like the "mortgage industry" fiasco to cause a state oversight hearing to address THIS unconscionable business practice. Students are constantly "taken for a ride" in regards to what is going on at these places. ACC says that they cultivate "you"...no they don't - with a class level of 75 people with one instructor, ask yourself if you honestly think that the instructors are going to care about what goes on with your learning. Concorde has issues just maintaining sites, programs like their BLS certs, that it falls to the students to do what they can to keep all their "requirements" in check. You would think that they would be on top of things like this - especially since your paying $30K for a year. Stanbridge can't maintain its instructor staff, because the guy doing their curriculum has a Bachelors in Biology. Why is this a problem, well for one thing the guy gets into fights with the theory instructors, because RN instructors know what subject matters need more weight in lecture and what needs less. But this guy gets carte blanche, from their "D.O.N." and their school's president/owner, in planning what gets taught. Ridiculous sounding right? You'd think that the actual nurse educators would be calling the shots. But sadly, NOPE - that's not the case. In the 1 year that I spent at CNI, it was such an eye opening experience about the HYPOCRISY that the field of nursing has become in way of "education". The "story book" tales of Florence Nightingale are lost here in the land of sunshine and the "leftist-socialist" ideal - were everyone is equal & all hold the common belief in "Kum Bay Ya"! It's all a crock of $#!@ - not being too vulgar about it. The one question that a lot of readers are going to ask is - how the heck did I get all this information on all these schools?!? I spent 1 year of learning what I needed to pass my classes and pass the NCLEX. In between that I listened to instructors, watched the trends of who was coming and going, and I befriended a lot of the support staff at the schools. 1 of them, God rest her soul, committed suicide - stemming from being fired from CNI. Her treatment at the hands of the administrators, the dean of students, and the D.O.N. was deplorable. There are those instructors at Stanbridge and Concorde who have told me that they are just biding their time for their masters programs to culminate = that way they can move on to schools like community colleges or ASN-RN programs elsewhere. The sad part about all of this, is that in looking at how these schools operate, who owns them, and what is being done to the students - there isn't enough that a "bankrupt", immoral, and defunct state like California can do to enforce things. Thus, anything at this point, short of a complete shut down of these programs, would be "knee jerk" reaction at best. It will not be addressed until this whole thing blows up and becomes as bad as what occured with the Housing/Mortgage boom....names in the news headlines like Argent, Ameriquest, New Century....will be replaced by names like Stanbridge, CNI, Concorde, Pacific, and American Career. Again, to all prospective students - BEWARE! Think before you allow yourself to be taken for a ride, that will see you floundering for work - even if you are an honors graduate. Do your homework....and again, if you can - go to an actual school - a state school with an ASN program or a BSN program, and if you really want the LVN license - get the requirements from the CA-Board of LVN and Psych Technicians...follow that while you are in your nursing classes - challenge the board when the time comes up - take the NCLEX-VN...then move onto your RN. It's just not worth it to go the route that so many of us "suckers" settled for!

Here's the actual low down on how the LVN schools work in Orange County, Ca. They are all a "cookie cutter" system that is driven by money. The sad part is that it is a "cloning" process in a very small petri dish. All the schools circulate the SAME instructors, this is due to the small pool of RN's that are willing to work at the schools. These instructors are usually moonlighting nurses (who are the clinical staff - they take the students to the clinical sites, because they usually have PART TIME hours). The FULL TIMERS are usually those instructors that are RNs pursuing their MSN or their MSN-NP degrees. They need the time in front of a class, that way they use some of their pay to offset their tuition costs, and some of their "class prep" as part of their prep for their graduate work for their own degrees. Ok, to give you an example, one instructor at CNI gets into a tiff with management, he leaves to go to Standbridge to work as an instructor for better pay. Then Ms. A who was an instructor at ACC (Buena Park, CA), who used to work at CNI comes back to CNI because she gets bounced for being "a substandard" instructor at ACC. Then that simmers for about a year. Another instructor who brags to everyone that she has LVN, RN, MSN, PHN....BELIEVE ME FOLKS - this lady has taught at every facility in Orange County, including Santa Ana College. She is the type of instructor that has bi-polar issues and will make your life hell because she thinks with the string of abbreviations behind her name - it means that she's second to Jesus Christ himself. Are you at the point of hating the story yet. Unbelievable? Ask term 3 students at any of these schools what happens. Ok, so back to one of the instructors who is found to be teaching from her "power points" which is not according to school policies - because it does not meet the CA-boards guidelines for Nurse education. She demands higher pay because she's gone to another school, and they blindly said they'd give her more $$$. The current school she's a part of basically "gives her the finger" - she leaves to work at Stanbridge. Now after a year, the first instructor leaves Stanbridge because of issues with the person who is writing Stanbridge's curriculum. He comes back to work at CNI. Bear in mind that all of this happens with multiple instructors at a given time, yet all of them circulate on their own time to any of the LVN schools in Orange County, CA. Wow...right???! That's only the part of it......Here's the next big thing....No matter how good any of these instructors are....the schools are run by money mongering ****** that will tell you anything to get you in the door. But what they don't tell you is that the job market for LVN's is NOT GOOD, and why? Because NO ONE hires LVNs that would give you the experience you need to work in a hospital. Sure if you are a "staff" UAP (sitter, CNA, translator) or unit secretary at a place like Kaiser or Fountain Valley Regional - you've got a better shot at getting hired on at your facility. But if you are just someone coming in to change your career path....good luck! The recruiters won't tell you this...you can be a homeless, drunk, junkie prostitute monkey...and as long as you have a SSN to get that $30+K from a lender or the Federal Gov't....these schools will take you! THEY WILL TAKE YOU that's the truth. Ok, here's the last bit of my "rant". But mind you, this is all the truth with no "ambiguities" - if it seems convoluted, it is because that is how the system takes advantage of YOU. The administrators of the programs the "Directors of Nursing" at the schools are also cookie cutter. Yet, they are the one thing that is different based on their temperament and their culture. I say this, because at CNI...well the D.O.N. and her administrative staff are "Asian" in a very BROAD sense...so just to clarify...they are NOT all ORIENTAL...but they come from the ASIAN continent and the "Pacific islands" close to the shore line. Ok, if you are operating an school in America, you'd think that the type of nepotistic b.s. that you would see in places like Guam, USA and the Philippines would not permeate into the system. But at CNI, you have an Assistant D.O.N. who has clawed her way to the top by kissing ***, while being an incompetent nurse, who often brags that she has 15 years of "oncology nursing" under her belt. The woman cannot even identify the basic structures of the kidney...you would think that with 15 years of dealing with patients who tend to go the route of dialysis...she would know something like that. What makes matters worse is that she "overcompensates" for her obvious lack of experience and education. She picks on the students to the point of trying to "fail" them or harass them through her "enforcement" of the rules. For example, you are required to have WHITE shoes....other than expensive nursing shoes...it's hard to find ALL WHITE athletic shoes...so you buy one that has a slight streak of gray with a small R#bok logo on the side...mind you it's all WHITE with a small gray sliver...What could happen you ask - try repeated write ups (which go in to your record) that will not go away until you buy new shoes! That is the extent of this woman's concern. She is the Assistant D.O.N. - and not only can the students not stand her...the faculty at their last faculty meeting made it very clear that she is not qualified to be in the position she's in. She's gotten into a cat fight with another instructor on campus, because she pulled rank and basically used her position to bully another instructor who needed to leave for a personal reason. She threatened disciplinary action on an instructor who has had perfect attendance. But that's the ironic part. Before coming across this information, I thought instructors were instructors - who were colleagues with the administration. But at CNI, the instructors are treated just as badly as the students. It's crazy. I know. Onto the D.O.N. she has allowed people who have gotten drunk in class to remain in the program...they were silently reprimanded, but allowed to stay. Meanwhile hard working students who are having a hard time are made to feel guilty and put down about their problems. If you have to work while you are in the program....FORGET IT...I know for a fact the following statement was uttered to a student - "Why do you have to work, why can't you just let your parents pay for you school, and pay them back afterward." WHAT THE **** is that?! Nursing is an art of empathetic compassion...there is NONE of that in any of these programs. ACC also has that issue when it comes to their 75 plus classes - no direct attention to student's needs. Stanbridge has a revolving policy on changing things at the last minute. You sign your financial aid paper work, thinking your classes are going to start at 0800 everyday...then they change it on you last minute and say that the classes are now going to start at 0645. "Is it that extreme", you ask. YES. That is the "cookie cutter" trend that I am speaking of. Good luck in your decision making process...My advice is go to Saddleback or Golden West College and enroll in their ASN programs - save your money and experience less stress! Also, work with a more competent staff that has integrity, and is held to an actual WASC accreditation!

Hey there, I need to pose a question on the General Forum, because, well I don't know where to exactly place this questions. And I figure it would help people on both the LVN/LPN side and RN side of the fence. If a person is applying for a license in the state of California, they applied and were accepted to take the test, they paid for the test & received a test date, and are set to take the test - BUT they have a "ding" on their criminal background (performed by the board). What are their chances of getting their license, if they pass the NCLEX? Now, I realize that this is a question that can be answered with a question like, "Well what is the 'ding' regarding." Let's say that the charge was misdemeanor theft (shoplifting) that occurred approximately 2 years ago. It was settled in court. The applicant plead guilty and was given a fine with informal probation. Now, the state board is saying that the person (who openly disclosed this on their app, and submitted the initial paperwork that was requested - the actual ruling from the court; with court documents attached) needs to submit a certified copy of the arrest record, a hand written statement regarding the incident; and paper work from the court indicating that all fees were paid. I don't know if anyone out there is familiar with California or their state board. But is this something that would SEVERELY impede a person from getting their license? It wasn't a crime of violence or domestic dispute, it wasn't drug related or anything that would have made it a felony. But in the state of California, for those of us that live here, well...they don't do anything small and they take everything to the extreme. What would a person have to do (other than file the paperwork that they ask for - in the exact manner/timeline indicated by the board) in order to get a better chance at them not "ham stringing" the process? Any advice? Please!!!!

As I mentioned above, if you have indeed completed the 1st year of an RN program, you should have classes under your belt that could merit you a chance at testing for an LVN/LPN licensure. Depending upon where you are though, there maybe a few other requirements by the board. But if you are able to challenge the board, then this would definitely give you an advantage at a more advanced position with better pay. Plus, the added experience of working in a "closer" capacity to the RN's on-board will give you more of an advantage with your education. Just a thought. Remember, depending upon how "eager" you are - look toward as many opportunities that present themselves to you - because not everyone is aware of them and some shy away from them (saying stuff like, it's too hard to do concurrently - knowing your limitations is great, applying someone else's limitations to yourself is just ridiculous). Remember safety for your patients and yourself. But never turn down even the most "menial" of certifications or "add-ons" to your license. It all adds up. Hopefully, you are more encouraged to reach down deeper into yourself to find that nurse in you. Just remember, 1+1 =2 and 2+0 = 2; same result just a different route to get there. Good luck!

Sprintin08, From the sound of it, you are going through something that a lot of us have gone through. If you are being exposed to this field for the first time, then you have nothing to be "ashamed" of. It is good that you still have the "fear" in you. The reason I say this, is because I've had the opportunity to watch a few of my class mates in while I was in my 1st and 2nd year make total fools of themselves in regards to cockiness. It is what I had mentioned before, you will slowly gain confidence. But confidence should never ever be replaced by cockiness or a willingness to do what you are not "cleared" to do by your level of instruction. Case-in-point, you are being shadowed by your instructors and by your preceptors at your clinics/hospitals - you are ultimately practicing under their license. It does not mean that you can do everything that they are licensed to do. A classmate of mine ended up giving a narcotic IVP when our instructor was not with him, all because a nurse who wanted to get things done fast - blindly asked if he could do it. He said sure. Suffice it to say we lost that facility for our school, and he was expelled from the program. A great deal of humility and confidence go a long way in seeing you to your success. As far as your "fears" are concerned - they will start to fade with time. But you will be surprised that new ones will pop up, but your experiences will help you deal with adjusting to them. I am speaking from experience. (This was ONE of my many "trying" moments) I was assigned to care for and move an elderly patient who was demented and was status post Hip Surgery because of a fall at the local SNF. The patient was combative and very incontinent. I know that this may seem like a made up story, because so many nurses have their "moments" to share. Still though, many of us have had cases like this where all with similar feelings of bewilderment ended up kicking us in the gut, because of the "fear". This is where your inner "chicken" should start feeling like "Oh, crap...now what because I feel like peeing myself silly". What you can do is Step back physically (if you can) and do it mentally before you attempt anything. Know what you can do; remember what you've been taught; and use the (now) experience to learn! Actively LEARN - that is nursing. Oh, and it sounds like maybe "endurance" and strength may be a fear for you. You might want to take up an exercise routine, running and toning your upper body will go a long way for your life in the clinic. Why running - endurance...Why toning - because it helps with the moving and lifting. Plus, the extra energy and O2 go a long way at helping with the long nights studying. By the way, all the NCLEX books mention that you should do it to get you out of sitting in the "rut" that I mentioned in the previous post to you. Plus, while all your classmates are running around exhausted - you've got the "physical" part to hang in for a 12 hour shift. Remember, you are not the only one out there...Even if it feels that way. You are alone when it comes down to something that goes wrong - so make sure you are doing things SAFELY for your patients and yourself - and the rest will come. Safety ensures that you become a nurse, it ensures that you remain a nurse, and it makes you a better nurse. Fear is a good thing, it makes you know that you are human and very aware of your limitations. But you shouldn't exaggerate your limitations to the point that they become debilitating obstacles. Best of luck making your way through this part of your life...make a decision that you know you will not regret years from now. That decision is still up to you. Good Luck

I agree with Pers. This is an opportunity and a learning lesson that has hit you square in the face. There is no other way to put it. Yes, I empathize with you pain in regards to being a CNA and being put in the middle of a lot of "scut work". It may not seem glamorous and it may not even seem possible. But the higher you get, the same principle always remains true. You are on your own, but you have a lot of power at your finger tips. A lot of nurses (RN's) are in this field for the wrong reason - and the "power" is all they want. But if you really want to be an effective nurse, realizing that you are "alone" makes every day more precious - you take a greater appreciation in having your job; you end up being more careful; you start thinking more critically; and you end up making better decisions for your patients, as well as great decisions for yourself. Take your time - be the advocate for your patients. Do not rush, but don't dawdle either; if it is skill speed that you are talking about - ALL NURSING SKILLS that are done well are done so because of TIME and EFFORT that has been put into learning the skill and refining them. This is a "growing" time for you, and if you really want to "find out" if nursing is for you...do what you can to credential for an LVN, while you are working toward your ASN or BSN (RN). No one says that this is not possible, and for the detractors saying that it is a "waste" - pay no mind. I know many RN's who still appreciate, value, and guard their LVN/LPN licensures. Working toward small goals may be a way to making the time go a little faster. But it will also give you the necessary confidence and "information" you need to decide if Nursing is were you want to be. So what happens if you get to be an LVN and you start practicing, only to find out you don't like it after all. Well, in places like California, you can challenge the board (with some additional classes - a few you can pick up at a JC that offers them) to become a "Scrub Tech". Which opens up a whole new world to the medical profession. Don't just quit, just because of the poor attitude of a "manager", who should be using therapeutic communication with patients and ALL staff (including UAPs). Unfortunately, that is the reality of nursing - a lot of bad eggs will get through only to practice everything that they were taught to avoid. YOU CAN get through this! YOU CAN make a difference in your life and in the lives of others. It all depends upon how badly you want it. I hope that this has given you some ideas and encouragement to carry on. Best of luck to you in all your future endeavors! (Just remember a nurse will forever be a student...that is the profession we are in...the moment you actually believe that you are the sum total of all wisdom and truth - you have just screwed yourself and your patients). It's good to be confident...condfidence always needs a little support every now and then...cocky is something totally different. Sincerely A Fellow Student stuck in the "scut".