Legal Nurse Consulting!

Published

Hi everyone,

I just stumbled across this forum and wanted to say hello!

I have been an LNC since 1997.

Lori

Hi everyone,

I just stumbled across this forum and wanted to say hello!

I have been an LNC since 1997.

Lori

I get different opinions regarding this program. Some say you need it to do the job, I had a paralegal, actually very prominent working with local lawyers, tell me that it is not necessary to get this degree in order to work in this capacity. What are your thoughts.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
I get different opinions regarding this program. Some say you need it to do the job, I had a paralegal, actually very prominent working with local lawyers, tell me that it is not necessary to get this degree in order to work in this capacity. What are your thoughts.

I have been a Legal Nurse Consultant for ten years. The only "formal" training that I received was a two day class put on by the Washington State Trial Lawyers Association Nurse Attorneys, Law School for Nurses. It cost maybe $150.00, and went over what legal nursing was, the nurse practice act, reviewing medical records, a mock trial, and other issues that I don't remember. They provided us with, as part of the $150, booklets with examples of legal nurse work product, a sample of a bill to an attorney, how to set up an independant practice as a Legal Nurse, etc. The rest was up to you, as it is with the Vicki's class. The rest I just figured out for myself. Don't sell yourself short.

The problem with nurses, is that business principles are not taught in nursing school, how to market our nursing education/services to the public, and we feel inadequate to step out into the business world, even though it our own nursing expertise that is being "sold". That by the way, is what has held nursing back from gaining the credibility and power that we need with the public, administration, and the people who pay the bill, the insurance companies. How to start a business, and business skills, are, by the way, taught to Physical Therapists and Occupational Therapists while they are in school. This is why nursing needs to go to a BSN as entry inot practice, so that we may also learn these skills, and use them to advance nursing in the "market" of health care. There is not enough time in ADN and dipoma prgrams to accomplish that.

I would also like to point out, that we all know how to read medical records. What separates the "men from the boys" in this field, is the ability to pick out, and "read between the lines", in the records, and "see" what isn't said in the records. If you cannot do this, write well, and be able to comunicate this to an attorney, all the over priced materials from the "Amway of LNC Programs", will not buy you credibility with the legal profession.

I continued to educate myself by reading, joining the AALNC, (they are the ONLY National Organization for Legal Nurses), and enrolling in a Legal Nurse Certificate program at a community college, to learn more about the law. You can call the Small Business Asociation in your city, to guide you in business decisions, and take low cost marketing classes at a community college. Kaplan College also has a legal nurse consulting program that is excellant, and far more affordable.

I would like to remind you that, regardless what you are told, NO ONE IS "CERTIFIED" BY TAKING A 6 DAY COURSE. Certification means that you have attained knowledgeable and proficiency in a subject, and legal nursing is more than learning how to market yourself in a six day seminar. There is a reason that the AALNC requires you to have 2000 hours of experience. That is to bring credibility to the name of legal nurses. The AACN also requires you to have a certain amount of critical care experience before you can sit for the CCRN exam. You are also required to have a certain number of clinical hours every three years in actual hands on critical care experience to be able to renew your CCRN creditial. How have you renewed a CLNC credential by going to a seminar, and paying alot of money? There is a National Association Credentialing Board, that certifies nursing programs and credentialing, and the AALNC is the ONLY program that is approved for legal nursing.

Overall, you do not need any "certifying program" to be a Legal Nurse. The hype is from the groups who want you to pay an $$$$$ for their program. It is not necesary. The lawyers are right. The harm in these programs is that the market is being flooded with nurses, who are so desparate to get out of bedside nursing, and find an "out of bedside nursing market", for their nursing education, knowledge, expertise, and skills.They are willing to pay $$$$$$ for "educational materials" from someone who is making a $$$$$$ on the profits and driving down to salary. They are becoming a dime a dozen.

Believe in yourself, educate your self with material from the AALNC bookstore (they are excellant- I bought them myself), educate yourself on business principles and marketing. Betty Joos has excellant marketing and business practices for LNC's materials, as does LNC Resource, and RN Market. They have marketing material, business cards and stationery.There is an LNC intership availble. They are all very reasonably priced and can be purchased online on their web site.

In summary you do not need to spend big $$$$$ to becaome an LNC. I didn't.

Lindarn

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Lindarn,

I am interested in legal nurse consulting but do not want to testify as an expert witness. Is it possible to consult without engaging in that aspect of the law?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Lindarn,

I am interested in legal nurse consulting but do not want to testify as an expert witness. Is it possible to consult without engaging in that aspect of the law?

Yes, it is possible to work as a "behind the scenes" legal nurse. You can be employed as an Inhouse Legal Nurse, or, on the outside, just read medical records for attorneys, do medical research, and/or just screen cases for merit. And, no, you do not have to take expensive LNC programs to accomplish this. See my previous posts. There are excellant LNC programs, materials, out there, such as, RN Market, LNC Resource, Betty Joos (who offers an LNC internship), etc. Look them up on the web. And also the American Assocation of Legal Nurse Consultants, (AALNC). They also have excellant marketing/professional materials, that they sell on their web site.

I hope that this answers your question.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Yes, it is possible to work as a "behind the scenes" legal nurse. You can be employed as an Inhouse Legal Nurse, or, on the outside, just read medical records for attorneys, do medical research, and/or just screen cases for merit. And, no, you do not have to take expensive LNC programs to accomplish this. See my previous posts. There are excellant LNC programs, materials, out there, such as, RN Market, LNC Resource, Betty Joos (who offers an LNC internship), etc. Look them up on the web. And also the American Assocation of Legal Nurse Consultants, (AALNC). They also have excellant marketing/professional materials, that they sell on their web site.

I hope that this answers your question.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

One more thing. Kaplan also has an LNC program, and many community colleges, and even four year colleges, are offering Legal Nursing programs. Many of these (like Kaplan), are online.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

Up Vote Up Vote ×

May i ask what the chances of an RN with an LLM in medical Law are please?

I'm about to start this course in october 2005. Thank you.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
:crying2: Well, mabye ya'll can help me. I posted on the MI site, but this is where I should be. I recently was terminated, they are stating pt. neglect and abdoment. Neither of which is the case. I was the charge nurse on duty and a nurse of a year of experience was having some bleeding issues with her pt. She asked for help. I went in assessed the pt. and had the resident come in. The resident was not concerned and stated to contiue to monitor. I reviewed s/s of shock with the nurse. She called me and another nurse back to the room, again for bleeding, again I called the Resident to come assess the pt. The resident was not concerned and stated to conitue to monitor. I continue to anwer the new nurses questions as they arose. I went into my pt.'s room to care for her at chnge of shift. When I came out they were preparing the other pt. for a D&C. She recived two units of blood in the OR but is otherwise stable. Does this really sound like a pt. neglect or abdoment on my part????????? :crying2:
Up Vote Up Vote ×
:crying2: Well, mabye ya'll can help me. I posted on the MI site, but this is where I should be. I recently was terminated, they are stating pt. neglect and abdoment. Neither of which is the case. I was the charge nurse on duty and a nurse of a year of experience was having some bleeding issues with her pt. She asked for help. I went in assessed the pt. and had the resident come in. The resident was not concerned and stated to contiue to monitor. I reviewed s/s of shock with the nurse. She called me and another nurse back to the room, again for bleeding, again I called the Resident to come assess the pt. The resident was not concerned and stated to conitue to monitor. I continue to anwer the new nurses questions as they arose. I went into my pt.'s room to care for her at chnge of shift. When I came out they were preparing the other pt. for a D&C. She recived two units of blood in the OR but is otherwise stable. Does this really sound like a pt. neglect or abdoment on my part????????? :crying2:

No, that doesn't seem like patient abandonment or neglect. First,- You need to call an employment lawyer and tell him/her what happened. Next, did they report you to the Board of Nursing? If you have , call them and tell them what happened. If they did, and you have insurance, you are OK. They should defend you in a licensing issue before the Board of Nursing. If you don't, it is very expensive to defend your license.

Did you document in the nurses notes, that the resident was called, the symptoms that you were concerned with, bleeding, V/S changes, and document his response, or lack of response? Relate the conversation in the notes, ex; "MD called to see patient regarding increased bleeding from, where ever, pt. v/s were ?" No orders received. Attending called with the above concerns. No orders received. Nursing supervisor called regarding change in patient's condition, and lack of response from resident and attending physician. I always kept a copy of the notes for myself, in case the notes disappeard from the chart, and you had to prove that you notified someone. And maske sure that you include the times that you called, and the time that they respond.

If you documented in the chart the steps that you took to get an MD to see the patient, and can prove it, I would try to sue the hospital for wrongful discharge. Are there any other issues that they might have with you, for other occurrences? You really need an employment lawyer. I have been told that they take cases on contingeny, and you will not have to come up with the money up front. Will the other nurses back you up, that you called the MD, and what the patient's symptoms were? Try getting statements from them now, and write a quick bullet chronology, as to what happened WHILE IT IS STILL FRESH IN YOUR MEMORY. You always have to cover your butt when you are working in a hospital

I still cannot believe that nurses really believe doctors will stick up for you if there is an incident. You have to realize that they are in debt about a six figure +++, number for college and med school, and they have a much higher stake/investment in their career that you do. They will not stick up for anyone and take the blame. As far as they are concerned, your nursing license is expendable.

I hope that this is a help. I hope that others on the listserve will take note, and take precautions to protect your license. Remember:

CHART IT IN THE NOTES, MAKE A COPY FOR YOURSELF, AND MAKE COPIES OF INCIDENT REPORTS. DON'T ADVERTISE THAT YOU HAVE MADE COPIES, OR THAT YoU HAVE INSURANCE! REMEMBER, IT WILL BE YOUR WORD AGAINST THEIRS!! MALPRACTICE INSURANCE IS INEXPENSIVE AND WORTH ITS WEIGHT IN GOLD. YOU CAN GET INSURANCE THROUGH NSO (LOOK THEM UP ON THE INTERNET) FOR LESS THAN $100. YOUR LICENSE IS WORTH IS. ALSO, IF YOU ARE SUED, YOU WILL/CAN GET AN ATTORNEY THAT HAS YOUR BEST INTERESTS IN MIND, NOT THE HOSPITALS. THE HOSPITAL DOES HAS TO DEFEND YOU, BUT THEY WILL SETTLE A CASE TO THEIR SATISFACTION AND BOTTOM LINE, NOT YOURS!! ALWAYS WATCH YOUR BACK AT WORK. A WORD TO THE WISE IS SUFFICIENT!

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, WA

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum. I've been a nurse for 26 years and just this last year

became a Legal Nurse Consultant. I've kinda read most of the responses so

far. I took Vickie's course in Atlanta last Oct. I would recommend it to anyone. I also belong to AALNC and plan to take my certification through

them once I have the required # of hours needed. I say go with what you

feel is right for you. No one can make the decision for you.

legalnurse22

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Hello, Everyone,

I am a CLNC practicing in Texas (and nationwide, given the opportunity); and my experience is that it is difficult to get your name out there and become known. I work 30 hours a week now at a local firm in Austin; but, I wish that I could expand my personal business. I think there is a glut of nurses right now out there trying to get started. You need a focus and an edge for your busines. Vickie Milazzo calls it your "niche". I'm still trying. The other issue I have come up against is that I am an old diploma nurse, emphasis on the diploma and not the old, please. Anyway, for years I have been taking classes towards my BSN and I've always had to stop for one reason or another. I'm still taking classes. Law firms usually require, at the very least, a BSN. I was hired by a fluke chance. My research seems to show that an MSN is the degree to open doors. I'm 50! How does everyone else feel about this issue? Are you experiencing anything similar?

Thanks,

Nancie

Nancie,

I became a CLNC in Oct. and I'm 51. No, it's not easy, nurses are not used to "selling"

what they have to offer. But I feel that none has control of my life but me. If I want

to suceed, I have to make it happen. I have an ADN and it hasn't been a problem yet.

My problem is deciding if I need to go in-house as opposed to independent consulting.

The problem with in-house in my area is the attorneys want the experience but don't

want to "pay" for it. Welcome any input.

legalnurse22

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Hi everyone,

I just stumbled across this forum and wanted to say hello!

I have been an LNC since 1997.

Lori

With the amount of times that I have gone head-to-head with the state surveyors for my facility, I have become very interested in your type of job. Are you certified? and what course would you recommend? Has it been hard to find work ? :)

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Also "stumbling around" this site: ILNC x 13 yrs, RN x 29 years, teach LNC on a limited basis; also serve as CN for my church

Seriously looking to relocate to NC (Asheville) or SC (Seneca) within next few yrs.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion