Just wondering NP & PA

braithiar · Jul 8, 2010

I don't think any NPs are looking down on PAs.

When deciding, you should also take into account that many NPs have years of nursing experience prior to becoming an NP. My point is, you shouldn't base your decisions solely on program curriculum. Pre-med courses are basic science classes that many majors, including some nursing majors, have to take. I'm not trying to talk you into one program over another. Only you know which one is a better fit for you, based on your interests.

As for the physician you talked to: It's one opinion about NPs. Chances are, if you talked to another physician, he/she might have more positive things to say. I know my PCP is very supportive of the profession (and PAs for that matter).

-B

zenman · Jul 8, 2010

Hi,
I am very new here, and right now only a high school Junior. I was hoping to persue being a NP in my future. although I was shadowing a doctor, and mentioned it to him and he apparently gave me a big lecture about the lack of training they have in the medical field blah blah. He told me to look into PA programs. I went home and checked it out, and I just had a question. Why are NP & PA's on the "same level"? Based on the curriculums and seeing how most PA programs have about the same prereqs as med school and require alot of prior medical experience, it seems that PA's recieve far more thorough and much more medically relevant training then NP's, then I was just wondering, why are PA's looked down apon by NP's? It had been a dream of mine to be an NP for a couple years now, although I am not so sure now, it seems I can just work a little harder to become a PA, but then I don't want to be "less respected" by the people I work with. Any and all opinions will be appreciated. Thanks.

Is it more important to be respected by those you work with or by your patients?

In an age when medicine is becoming less effective, why do you want more of it?

There are many paths to the top of the mountain. Once there, the view is different and you might even realize you should have been climbing another mountain.

physio · Jul 8, 2010

Is it more important to be respected by those you work with or by your patients?
In an age when medicine is becoming less effective, why do you want more of it?
There are many paths to the top of the mountain. Once there, the view is different and you might even realize you should have been climbing another mountain.

Hey Zenman, not sure I get what your trying to say, but I was wondering what you meant by "in an age where medicine is becoming less effective, why would you want more of it?". I mean, more medical knowledge is (obviously) the key to making a good clinician, then why are you saying that NP's are better off with less medical training? Thank You.

marty6001, EdD, EMT-P, APRN · Jul 9, 2010

APRN vs PA is really a question of are you wanting to work within the nursing model or physician model. I choose APRN over med school because I felt in my core that I was a nurse. I like using the nursing process to assist me in diagnosing my patients and providing treatment. Both APRN's and PA do amazing things, and really both are excellent career choices, it really comes down to what model you fit best in.

FYI: I have worked with many PA's and APRN's in my time and loved them all. My best practice was working in an ER with a PA where we split the case load. He did things I was weak on and I did the same for him. It was the best job I've ever had.

zenman · Jul 9, 2010

Hey Zenman, not sure I get what your trying to say, but I was wondering what you meant by "in an age where medicine is becoming less effective, why would you want more of it?". I mean, more medical knowledge is (obviously) the key to making a good clinician, then why are you saying that NP's are better off with less medical training? Thank You.

All mid-levels don't have to have the exact training. Everyone doesn't think that more of a medical model focus gives you what patients want. As I've said before, what are you missing by looking in one end of the microscope and seeing smaller and smaller? Getting it?

marty6001, EdD, EMT-P, APRN · Jul 9, 2010

All mid-levels don't have to have the exact training. Everyone doesn't think that more of a medical model focus gives you what patients want. As I've said before, what are you missing by looking in one end of the microscope and seeing smaller and smaller? Getting it?

breaks my heart... LOL that term makes me cringe everytime I see it :)

physio · Jul 9, 2010

All mid-levels don't have to have the exact training. Everyone doesn't think that more of a medical model focus gives you what patients want. As I've said before, what are you missing by looking in one end of the microscope and seeing smaller and smaller? Getting it?

With all due respect, I think the idea of "less medical training" to better patient care is an excuse at most. I mean, maybe NP's may have such classes like nursing theory & family, community systems and all, although I would think further training in classes like immunology, pharmacology, biochemistry, & endocrinology would be more helpful in patient diagnosis and also the additional clinical training also inclines me to think PA.

And you mentioned that not everyone thinks medical training model focus gives what patients want. So what do patient's want?

marty6001, EdD, EMT-P, APRN · Jul 9, 2010

With all due respect, I think the idea of "less medical training" to better patient care is an excuse at most. I mean, maybe NP's may have such classes like nursing theory & family, community systems and all, although I would think further training in classes like immunology, pharmacology, biochemistry, & endocrinology would be more helpful in patient diagnosis and also the additional clinical training also inclines me to think PA.
And you mentioned that not everyone thinks medical training model focus gives what patients want. So what do patient's want?

APRN's get all those classes. My immunology/biochem class was a combined nightmare of a course called biomedical sciences, which spanned one year of master's level time, which equates to about 6 years of undergrad. My masters level pharm course was also one year in length. Combine that with 24 hours a week clinical in 16 week blocks for 4 semesters for roughly 1200 hours and I would argue the "less medical training" theory is invalid. Furthermore, my 120 page thesis evaluating ECG's for signs of silent ischemia was a real time sink!!

It is an arguement of futility which gets "more training". It is the model of practice you wish to adhere to. Do you like the medical model, which PA's use, or the nursing model, which at its core all APRN's use.

LoveANurse09 · Jul 9, 2010

All mid-levels don't have to have the exact training. Everyone doesn't think that more of a medical model focus gives you what patients want. As I've said before, what are you missing by looking in one end of the microscope and seeing smaller and smaller? Getting it?

I love your analogies.That made my decision.

eddoc · Jul 12, 2010

Physio:

Both models have their strengths although I think Z derides the value of science way too much for my comfort. I have taught both NP and PA students and, in a gross oversimplificiation, would say that the nursing model overemphasizes the psychosocial aspects of patient care at the expense of hard science, while the PA/medical model emphasizes hard science/pathophysiology over the psychosocial.

AbeFrohman, BSN, RN · Jul 12, 2010

APRN's get all those classes. My immunology/biochem class was a combined nightmare of a course called biomedical sciences, which spanned one year of master's level time, which equates to about 6 years of undergrad. My masters level pharm course was also one year in length. Combine that with 24 hours a week clinical in 16 week blocks for 4 semesters for roughly 1200 hours and I would argue the "less medical training" theory is invalid. Furthermore, my 120 page thesis evaluating ECG's for signs of silent ischemia was a real time sink!!
It is an arguement of futility which gets "more training". It is the model of practice you wish to adhere to. Do you like the medical model, which PA's use, or the nursing model, which at its core all APRN's use.

Wow, there are so many things wrong with this statement. Equivalent to 6 years of undergrad. In one year you squeezed in 18 semesters worth of classes (3 semesters equals 1 year). You also had 3 pharm classes (you said one year)? Please give a citation for your curriculum because I've been to NP school and have seen hundreds of plans of study and never have I seen anything like it.

I'm not saying that a PA is always better than an NP, but embellishing does not help your case.