Is it wrong if I....

arabstarRN · Sep 10, 2011

My understanding at places I worked who had issues about this was intentional communication/contact :) You can say hi

I knew what was meant, but it still prompted that slightly funny picture... maybe its the exhaustion of the week lol

MomRN0913 · Sep 10, 2011

Now here's another question: Say I am at work, but for whatever reason, am not scheduled to that set where a patient I had taken care of for several days was still in the hospital. Is it wrong to go into the room and just say hi to the patient and ask how they are feeling? Not to get information from a nursing standpoint, but just to ask a way to show concern and maybe encouragement, if that makes any sense at all the way I worded it.... I always wondered that as a student and there was one time that a patient I had for two days was still there the next week but I wasnt assigned to him - no student was - and his wife saw me in the hall, stopped me and told me how he was doing (I did not ask her, she never gave me the chance to even say hello before she started rattling stuff off) and then she told me, "go see him if you get a chance, he would love to see you and say hi!" however, I was super busy that day and when I passed the room I just called in a quick hello to him and told him I was just passing by but had to get back to the patient I was getting supplies for. So, from the experienced nurses out there, is it ok to stop by their room on the floor you work if you are not assigned those sets and just generally say hello and ask if how they are doing as if you saw them on the street?

That's not wrong. That's nursing. I have had family members of patients I had taken care of, but not assigned ot that night ask me quesitons about their care and ask me to help. And I do if it's OK with the primary nurse. In the ICU, certain families and patients bond with certain nurses.

I took care of a patient in my ICU and saw his wife a few days later in the elevator. She told me he was depressed and I was his favorite nurse and it would be really nice if I visited him. So I did!

We had a young cop we brought back from the brink of death. Literally. Horrible sepsis. They requested me when I was on, so I took care of him A LOT. When I saw a cop in the town, I asked how he was doing (he had since been transferred ot a different hospital for some procedures and then rehab) They told me.

This is why I went into nursing. You would ask your neighbor how he was doing if he was sick, right?

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Sep 10, 2011

This is why I went into nursing. You would ask your neighbor how he was doing if he was sick, right?

Only difference, your neighbor isn't your patient :)

MomRN0913 · Sep 10, 2011

Only difference, your neighbor isn't your patient :)

Right, but asking how you are doing is one thing. Asking about treatments and meds is another.

Are we supposed to dodge patients if they are out of our care and not our patients?

And what if your neighbor was your patient?

A nurse who worked on the unit had her neighbor on a different unit. She went to the floor and visited her. Then the poor woman came to the ICU and coded by the nurses station before we could get her int he room. So, that nurse helped us code her. (one of the worst codes ever too)

Humanity has been taken out of nursing. We are all people who care about people. We shouldn't be scared to say "hey, how are you?"

I know a nurse who is dating a patient of her's son. It was a very cute love story.

Do-over, ASN, RN · Sep 10, 2011

I ask after patients when I see family members in the halls, or if I see them out and about. I would NOT say something like "how is dad doing with his xyz diagnosis. I would say - nice to see you, how is your dad?

Another example - took care of a cop for several days, then saw him in the ER (he was on duty there for a disturbance call or something and I had been floated). I said something like "nice to see you again", and then he said something acknowledging (sp?) to others that I had been his nurse, etc.

For crying out loud - if I am not supposed to do that, I guess I'll take the write-ups... I work in a community hospital -these are my neighbors, families I see at the grocery store, families of my co-workers. This is the part I love about this setting.

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Sep 10, 2011

Obviously, a previous relationship with the person isn't the same as someone you just know as a patient. And a simple "hi, how are you" isn't 'wrong' in the HIPAA sense of anything, with anyone you see in public. :) This started out in a different vein, and progressed to hallways and grocery stores :nurse:

handyrn · Sep 10, 2011

HIPAA-it's supposed to be such a good thing, but all it does is take the love out of nursing if you ask me. It just goes too far! This is one reason why I cannot do floor nursing in a hospital. It rips my personality right out of me! It's just sad.

arabstarRN · Sep 10, 2011

I agree that a simple "hi, how are you doing and how is your dad/mom/brother/sister/etc?" shouldnt be a bad thing, but sometimes you just never know how a facility or someone else is going to take even the simplest, honest, non-probing question from someone who truly does care about how the person is doing that day. And to me, when I see someone I know, whether its know them very well or not, I say, "Hi, how are you?" so its not even about if its a patient or not, its just about thats my friendly greeting.

I agree that all of the rules and such have taken the love out of nursing. I got into nursing because I care about people and sincerely want to help people - of course I dont want to violate any laws and I am not looking to share personal sensitive information about any of my patients with anyone, but I do genuinely care about how the person is doing, and i dont need specific details, but I like to acknowledge people I have dealt with rather than seem cold.

JustBeachyNurse, LPN · Sep 10, 2011

A simple "Hi, how are you doing? Let you mom know I am thinking about her." Shows that you care, is not asking for information about the patient that you "shouldn't be" and is also showing concern for the family member (son in your case) who is likely under a lot of stress. Depending on the moment he may offer information or just a quick hi.

We were taught not to visit patients that we were not directly taking care of unless the patient/family "requested" (i.e. see son in the hall. "Mom is doing better, she'd love it if you'd stop by and say hi, She's in room 12345" then you are invited by the patient/family) Popping in to wave hi if you are in the floor was not considered a visit. As opposed to assuming that your visit is wanted/welcomed. (I had a friend who assumed she had a great rapport with a patient & family who were transferred to a different unit. She decided to go to the room for a visit. Patient wasn't doing well, family was not happy & neither was patient as she was very stressed. Bigger problem? Friend DID NOT take the hint and just pop in and leave. Yeah that was a problem that went up to the administrative level. Some people have compassion, while others know no boundaries.)

I could give you an few example of reasons these rules are in place, even before HIPAA. While some people have a genuine concern for the patients they care for, others just have a morbid curiosity and just want to know.(Kind of like the people who see an accident/ report in the paper and try calling the hospital to find out the condition/status of the patient that they have no direct ties to but are just curious. And yes I took those calls when I worked in the ER.)

arabstarRN · Sep 10, 2011

I could give you an few example of reasons these rules are in place, even before HIPAA. While some people have a genuine concern for the patients they care for, others just have a morbid curiosity and just want to know.(Kind of like the people who see an accident/ report in the paper and try calling the hospital to find out the condition/status of the patient that they have no direct ties to but are just curious. And yes I took those calls when I worked in the ER.)

Yeah, I can only imagine the calls ER nurses can get!! Definitely some people have ulterior motives or just are so nosey and think that everyone's business should be their business... I had a guy question me yesterday about a patient that wasn't even mine, in a room I had never been assigned to and he wouldn't accept that I wasn't her nurse and go see the nurse who had that room. I could tell from the census that the patient had been moved to another room on the same floor, but obviously this guy wasn't THAT close to this patient if he had NO idea where she went. He walked into the room to find that the woman in the bed was NOT the woman he was there to see and then questioned me, regardless of what I told him. I almost felt the need to call security, but he finally listened to me that I wasn't assigned to that room and knew nothing about what was going on or who those patients were. He did go to talk to the nurse for those rooms and that nurse got it all handled (the nurse was a guy and he approached him in a different way that apparently the guy didn't feel as empowered) so security didn't have to get involved, but I was darn close to calling them and I sure as heck was NOT going to tell this guy the lady had been moved. He knew her name, and knew she had been there the day before, but other than that had no idea why or where or when she had been moved. Kinda suspicious I think... anyway, I don't know exactly what the nurse told him, but he did walk away and went the complete opposite direction of the room the lady was moved to. I was dealing with my patient's current terrible condition and other than keeping an eye out for escalation of the guy asking questions, I wasn't paying attention nor did I truly care what was being said lol, I had enough on my plate to worry about with my 5 patients with one tanking...

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2011

The purpose of HIPAA, The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) Privacy and Security Rules, was to protect the patients privacy from unlawful use of their information. I know that many have taken HIPAA to some pretty extremes when in actuality.....if reported would be told that they were not violations even though local risk managers and do gooders believed they were... :rolleyes: .

Asking a family member how their loved one is doing after having cared for them is NOT a violation. The whole preface of HIPAA is all about PERMISSION, by the patient, by the family. If you wanted to know about the patient and you were home, I would call the supervisor and ask. If not I would stop by the unit the following day and ask the nurse in the nurses station....how they are doing. Technically, the ICU nurse could ask the family if it was ok to tell you how she is doing and give you that report. Technically, HIPAA talks about being involved in the patients care and not misusing that information. Example....your neighbor is in the hospital and you look up her labs just because you are curious and she is in your hospital. Just because she is in your hospital doesn't make you involved in her care.

It is perfectly fine to say hello to patients from the hallway or even to peek your head in the door and say "HI how ya doin?" as there is no medical record at risk. I think there some who think too much and are attempting to take the nurture out of nursing. For the oblivious.......as mom n student pointed out....."take the hint and just pop in and leave. Yeah that was a problem that went up to the administrative level. Some people have compassion, while others know no boundaries.) ......

HIPAA cannot take the place of common sense and good manners....

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Sep 10, 2011

HIPAA-it's supposed to be such a good thing, but all it does is take the love out of nursing if you ask me. It just goes too far! This is one reason why I cannot do floor nursing in a hospital. It rips my personality right out of me! It's just sad.

It's not that complicated :) It protects the patients' privacy, that's all :heartbeat As Esme12 posted, common sense isn't dictated by HIPAA