Is This Normal To Ask??...

memphispanda, RN · Jan 21, 2004

Sometimes I think there are questions asked about elder abuse that the nurse may not want the family present during. I don't know why they would ask you to leave though for a blood draw--we don't do that where I work. We tell the family that we are going to do (whatever) and give them the option to stay or go, after making sure it's ok with the patient for the family to be there (if the patient is "with it" and able to make decisions for themself). Usually they choose to stay, although there are people who want to be out the door when we walk in.

headin'there · Jan 21, 2004

I appreciate your quick response! Do you have an opinion on the second item I mentioned? The 40/60 'thing'....

Renee :)

NeuroICURN · Jan 21, 2004

Hmmm, that's odd in my opinion.

I can't say for sure because I wasn't there, but if she needed to ask questions about abuse or anything else of that nature, I would just ask the family to step out while I "do my initial assessment"...and that's exactly what would happen, I'd do my assessment while asking questions. And perhaps that's what she meant...that she was gonna draw labwork AND do an assessment????

As for giving odds, I try not to do things like that. Sure, I take my leads from what I either heard the doctor say or what I know they said......(after you do this so long and work with particular surgeons, you usually know what was and wasn't said).

Now, if I had said that (and trust me, I wouldn't) I would say 40/60, meaning 40 survival / 60 death. But let me repeat that that is what I think!

I'll keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers. I hope everything works out for the best.

Take care.

:kiss

BRANDY LPN · Jan 21, 2004

I agree with what the other posters said , the nurse was prob. also doing admission assesment, and it may have included questions (medical/sexual/medication history) that your loved one might have felt uncomfortable answering in the presense of others.

As to the 40/60 thing I dont have an answer.

CCU NRS · Jan 21, 2004

In my opinion the nurse may be a bit nervous about the blood draw and with an older person it may be a hard stick especially if they are dehydrated and (this is my weak spot)I ask people to leave when I am drawing blood or starting IV because I get nervous and feel like others are looking over my shoulder. I also ask people to leave for any intervention that I feel should be private such as bathing or cleaning incontinence. I do not ask family to leave just to repostion a Pt but if there too many altogether I will ask them to leave and then when I go to tell them it is alright to return I also inform them that it is two at a time please. These are the rules in the CCU that I work in.

Many people see that sign on the door and they think well that means the other guy I can go see my (insert family member here) and they aren't going to stop me and I don't care if there are already 12 peopel in there. So I usually just ask everyone to leave and then tell them in the waiting area only two at a time please so they can decide who goes and who stays out there instead of in the middle of the unit.

Hope this helps

ps I would not hazard a guess on the 40/60 deal if you have questions catch the Doc and ask again and have him clarify.

headin'there · Jan 21, 2004

I've been lurking around more than posting for the past two years that I've been a member and tonight just proves what I've already observed...you guys are the best!

As far as him needing to do an initial assesment...good idea, but not very likely since she had been in the ICU almost 20 hours at that point (you do only conduct an assesment in the very beginning of the stay, right? Not at every shift change, I'm assuming). She also has dementia and is so weak she can barely talk. I can't imagine that anyone would think that she would give consistent and proper answers anyway, but who knows?

NeuroICURN...your thoughts and prayers are sooo appreciated!! I understand what you are saying about the 40/60 thing. I won't quote you! Ha! I'll also follow your lead and not do that when I'm a nurse either.

CCU NRS Grandma is VERY dehydrated, so I'm going to go with your thoughts on the 'nervous' theory. It just didn't sit well with me so I'm glad that I could come here and get some opinions worth hearing.

Thanks a ton!

Renee :)

Rapheal · Jan 21, 2004

I rarely ask the family to leave while drawing blood. But every once in a while when I am overworked and stressed I will ask them to step out. Just less sensory stimulation because many times the family will start asking questions and when I am stressed I like to focus on the task at hand without interuption if I can.

As for the 40/60. I am not sure. My neighbor (83) was given a 30% chance of surving bypass surgery 2 years ago. I see him every morning on his way to the gym.

Best wishes for you and your grandmother.

CCU NRS · Jan 21, 2004

Glad to be of any assistance

meownsmile, BSN, RN · Jan 21, 2004

headinthere,,, no,, actually there should be a head to toe assessement of each patient by the new nurse at each shift, including skin integrity, pedal pulses, apical pulse, lung sounds, bowel sounds, etc. Maybe her intent was to do the draw,, do the assessment, and turn the patient. If she was incontinent it would have taken longer with the linen change.

I hope things go ok with your grma.

Gldngrl · Jan 21, 2004

I always ask family/friends to step out while doing IV and phlebotomy draws. If they refuse, I question them re: fainting with seeing blood as I see this as a liability issue (they react to pt's blood draw or procedure, sustain incident/injury and then sue, file claim, etc). If they adamantly insist on staying in room, I consider this a waiver should an incident occur and would document accordingly.

headin'there · Jan 22, 2004

The more responses I get, the better I feel. I sure appreciate all of your good wishes. The prayers and all are working as Grandma is out of ICU and looking much better. She was transferred to a hospital 25 min. away to have a 'scope' procedure done and then most likely surgery. When they got her up to the new hospital and the GI specialist took a look at everything, my dad was told that surgery would kill her and they are not going to do the scope either.

I don't know too much more because my dad doesn't ask much so he 'doesn't make waves' and my mom stays away from the whole thing pretty much (as a team, those two successfully drive me crazy - Ha!). I'm armed with the docs' name and number as of tonight. Hopefully tomorrow I can find out a bit more (like what the course of action is from here and how long she may be in the hospital, etc.).

Have a Wonderful Rest of the Week You All!! Hats Off to Ya!

Renee :)