Is healthcare a right or privilege?

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If it is a right, then we have some work to do. If a privelidge, you get what you can pay for, right? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Specializes in PICU, NICU, L&D, Public Health, Hospice.

It is unfortunate, in my opinion, that it seems an impossible task to get those in favor of and those opposed to health insurance or care delivery reform to find any common ground for agreement. I was hoping that references demonstrating how people suffer and even die as a result of our broken system might allow us an opportunity to find common ground...to begin to have a dialogue about how things might be improved. Rather, it seems that if we cannot have verbal contests and arguments about semantics we can have no discussion at all.

Worst, it appears that the deadlock over partisan viewpoints in Washington is infiltrating the ability of the citizenry to have civil conversation as well.

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Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care, Cardiac, EMS.
I blame myself, I cannot get away from this thread.

There is information available in a number of places...this is a good place to start.

http://www.urban.org/publications/411588.html

http://www.childrenshospital.org/newsroom/Site1339/mainpageS1339P1sublevel577.html

The Urban Institute has some interesting research, however, seems to be more interested in making recommendations that reveal an agenda. While this is to a certain extent, inevitable, I think that statistical reporting that is free of "recommendations" is perhaps less likely to have the appearance of bias, whether or not bias exists in actuality.

The Journal of Pediatrics report is also quite interesting, and as it states, raises more questions than it answers, not least of which is perhaps the hidden correlation of poverty, uninsured status, and trauma mortality.

Just so we are clear - I am in favor of real healthcare reform.

I am opposed to letting the insurance companies write the reform bill. I am opposed to single-payer coverage, unfunded mandates, and removing the concept of competition from American healthcare - since it is competition that leads to advances in science and technology as it always has. The system needs to be reformed, of that there is no doubt - because there is no reason at all why in the richest country in the world, any person should lack access to healthcare except by their own choice.

We can, should, and must take care of each other - while there is no "right" to healthcare, as a right is not something that someone else has to provide - we do have a moral and ethical obligation to care for the underserved.

What we do not need is an invasive, intrusive, and overwhelming central government that is controlled by the very business making huge profits off the sick and suffering to tell us how to do that.

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... while there is no "right" to healthcare, as a right is not something that someone else has to provide - we do have a moral and ethical obligation to care for the underserved.

I'm sure that, if I spent more time on this, which I don't care to do, I could think of more examples, but you have a right to an attorney if you're charged with a crime, and if you can't afford one, the state must provide one for you.

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Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care, Cardiac, EMS.
I'm sure that, if I spent more time on this, which I don't care to do, I could think of more examples, but you have a right to an attorney if you're charged with a crime, and if you can't afford one, the state must provide one for you.

Ok - there is a substantive difference between legal rights and natural or "inalienable" rights. Natural or inalienable rights are generally considered to be those that are generative, or inherent to each person as a human being - they can also be considered as basic human rights, although that line gets blurred as well. Generally speaking, each person is entitled to dignity of person, the freedom to live their life, essential liberties, the ability to hold and dispose of property unencumbered, etc. These are the inherent "Rights of Man".

Legal rights are both grantable and rescindable - viz. a convicted felon's civil rights restrictions including the franchise.

That being said, I still contend that there is a substantive difference between the right to representation - which allows a person to choose to be represented by a person who chooses to work for the public defender's office, or one who chooses to work pro bono - and a supposition of a right to healthcare which demands that every person gets to choose the public option or no option at all.

The scorched earth policy on both sides is benefiting no one.

Healthcare is NOT and never can be a natural right.

What's sad is I think we're getting trapped in a quibble over terms when I think we essentially have similar broad goals on principles, if not methods.

Despite the partisan bickering, I doubt you'll find many people who think that the system is working just fine as it stands. Almost everyone agrees that reform is needed - it's a matter of finding the right way of doing it.

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Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care, Cardiac, EMS.

I do want to throw one other little thought into the mix while we're tossing around ideas.

We pay so much for our healthcare in this country and still live shorter lives, right? That's the argument, that we're not getting what we pay for, isn't it?

Look at our obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and alcoholism rates.

We're spending more and getting less because we're sicker to begin with and we don't care enough to do anything about it.

We're a nation of spoiled rotten children who want to be healthy without giving up Big Macs and getting off our sofas, without getting out of our cars and walking. We want to reduce our carbon emissions by opening our wallets - or making other people open theirs - instead of turning down our thermostats or riding a bicycle every now and then.

Americans are not particularly healthy people. This is a choice we have made with both hands on the wheel and our eyes wide open. So your mom's advice is still the best method for staying healthy, just in case you're not sure of how to live better - don't smoke, eat less, exercise, manage stress, floss, stretch, get your teeth cleaned, have your eyes checked, drink in moderation, don't shoot yourself or others, wear a helmet, wear a seatbelt, don't do drugs, practice safe sex, stay out of the sun. If you need more tips, ask your mom, spouse, or that coworker who makes that face when you come in stinking of cigarette smoke.

Maybe it's time we grew up and recognized that the reason for our shorter life expectancy in this country is ... our lives.

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Specializes in PICU, NICU, L&D, Public Health, Hospice.

I like that...health care not as a right or privilege, but rather as an obligation of the society...the wealthiest, most powerful society on the face of the planet. Yes, we do not get anywhere near the bang for our buck that we should expect.

There will be disagreement about the public option...I for one support that concept...however that should not be the death of ability to discuss other areas of reform which are crucial to our health as a nation. Indeed, who actually crafts our reform legislation is of upmost importance...yet, we the people are at the mercy of our self serving, over paid, "public servants" who are so stuck in the re-election turnstyle that they cannot possibly advocate for any substative change for their constituents...about anything.

So what do we do? My plan is to continue sending letters to my elected officials (so they can be read and filed by an assistant who makes more than me and has better health benefits), and to continue to vote out EVERY incumbent in EVERY election. My goal is to remove the urge to even try to get re-elected...I want them to go, work, and then go home after the first term...period.

Ya, America is an overweight, over-indulged country...so we have a lot of work to do. In my mind, fighting over who deserves care (personal responsibility, contributors to society, etc) is a silly waste of time and resources and I am glad not to have to kick that same dead horse...

Personally, I am fed up...

I am sick to death of politicians who think they can achieve some sort of political victory with pushing through a special interest health reform bill with a majority. I am sick to death of politicians who incite mass fear of reform and then "just say no" to any and all options for reform. I am sick to death of hearing our politicians speak and share ideologies about reform which come directly from the marketing budgets of big business insurance. Meanwhile our population is suffering from poor access to the greatest health care on the face of the planet...

So, I am encouraged that there really is some common ground...and it IS okay for those who disagree to actually have dialogue without denegration. We cannot let our pain in the a$$ politicians dictate the way we must interact with each other....WE do not have to be partisan bullies...we can simply be people who desire change...who can actually talk about what we desire.

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NOTHING is a "right" where the expectation is for someone else to pay for it.

So what you're saying is that you don't have a right to walk along a public roadway because someone else paid for it?

You don't have the right to feel safe and secure in your home, if others help to pay for the police department and fire station? And when they catch the guy stalking you, you don't have the right to ask he be locked up, because someone else will be paying for his prison cell.

If you are found unconscious, you don't have the right for an ambulance to take you... not until you wake up and write them a check or fill out insurance paperwork?

The source of funding is not sufficient criteria for deciding what is or isn't a right.

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If it is a right, then we have some work to do. If a privelidge, you get what you can pay for, right? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

I believe a nation's obligation is first to the lives and safety of its citizens. We recognize that when we spent many billions on fancy military weaponry. We recognize it when we spend a fortune on police departments and FBI. We don't flinch about spending money to keep people from getting sick from tainted food or contaminated pills. BUT... we're not sure if it's right or wrong to let our grandparent or neighbor die because they don't have $100,000 in cash for a chemo treatment? Who here doesn't have a family member or friend who has a dx with cancer?

One might argue that our only "rights" are those guaranteed by our founding fathers. But when they wrote we have the "right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" did they really mean America would develop ways to save citizens' lives but then dangle them over your head, just out of reach? The lucky ones can give up home & life savings for a treatment that may save them.

It's so easy to say "but I buy my own health insurance, so it's not my problem." Until the day you get very sick, the insurance company won't renew you, and now with a pre-existing condition you cannot buy insurance. :twocents:

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Specializes in PICU, NICU, L&D, Public Health, Hospice.

Sounds like you've been there, CeilingCat.

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Specializes in SICU, CRNA.

To answer this question you have to realize where our rights come from. In the Declaration of Independence it says we are endowed by our CREATOR with unalienable rights...it doesnt say that our government endowed them to us. Healthcare is a good, or a service that is purchased, which puts it in the category of a privelege. the right to free speech, for instance, doesnt cost any money, and doesnt have to be provided by anybody, it is inherent....just as our founders said. If healthcare were a right, how is it that it can be denied to those in Canada, England, or elsewhere where the patient is too old, or too sick? for example, the 99 year old pt with a failing heart that needs a heart transplant? Is that pt going to get it?If the patient has to meet criteria to deserve the "right" its not a right.

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Specializes in CTICU.

What a ridiculous analogy. A 99yo wouldn't get a heart transplant in any country on earth. There is a world of difference between basic medical care as a right and transplantation.

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Specializes in SICU, CRNA.

You cant have it both ways, if it is a right, you CANNOT deny it. If that 99 year old needs a new heart, and healthcare is a right, they should get it. If it is a commodity or a good that can be purchased, you would have to pay for it, whether privately or through insurance. You just proved my point.

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