Is health care a "right"

[tulip5]

Now that the affordable care act is rolling out I wonder if we should revisit this notion. AND (maybe more particularly) if it is a right, is the federal government the best instrument to provide it.

[sneeds]

I don't understand how some people in our society think they are so independent from it. The whole world is linked together. It is this division thinking that keeps our society from focusing on what is good for humanity. The capitalism and competitiveness of consumerism just keeps everyone from creating a healthy society. This is so true in our healthcare system. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO HEALTHCARE AND EDUCATION! These are fundamental in any healthy society. Otherwise, it will fail. The wealthy, well educated know how to take advantage of all that is offered by govt. If corporate welfare did not exist... if this system that governs society were not so difficult to maneuver for the average person do you not think all of us would seek opportunity? Lately, you either benefit from being homeless or close to it or being wealthy enough to afford healthcare. That's our society. People who say it's not a right are individualistic. But in the long run, that thinking is just producing more deficit and poor and divisiveness. You can't not let a person get an education and expect them to have and a produce (or not) a productive result.

[shermrn]

One question no one seems to ask is, how do we define "affordable"? How can you put a price on your life or the life of another? I was talking with a coworker who had a hip replaced, she stated the surgeon got (for example) $15,000 just for his part and she did not feel he should be make that much money for the time he put in. When I asked her how much he should get for putting a new hip in her, she did'nt know, just that he got too much. Some people complain about the price of prescriptions, what is it worth to them to take a medication that may prolong their life by another 10 - 20 years ? It seems that a free market would sort that all out, when peoploe have to compete for customers and profit, prices tend to come in line with what the consumer is willing to pay. The problem with healthcare in this country is that government got involved in the first place. We can't blame capitalism because healthcare has not operated under a truly capitalist system. Peoople think the solution is more government, when really it's the government who seems to create more problems than it solves. Finally there is a general consensus in this country that those who are successful have done so only on the backs of others. Some would call me successful becasue I have a job, own a house, etc. I didn't stab anybody in the back to accomplish this, no one suffers as a result of my working 40 plus hours a week. I earn what I make and don't feel I should be forced to give it to someone else. If I paid less in taxes I would have more money to use at my own discretion. I would be able to donate money to my church or charities that provide healthcare are other services for those less fortunate. Charities are the ones who should provide for the less fortunate, not government.

[macawake, MSN]

One question no one seems to ask is, how do we define "affordable"? How can you put a price on your life or the life of another? I was talking with a coworker who had a hip replaced, she stated the surgeon got (for example) $15,000 just for his part and she did not feel he should be make that much money for the time he put in. When I asked her how much he should get for putting a new hip in her, she did'nt know, just that he got too much. Some people complain about the price of prescriptions, what is it worth to them to take a medication that may prolong their life by another 10 - 20 years ? It seems that a free market would sort that all out, when peoploe have to compete for customers and profit, prices tend to come in line with what the consumer is willing to pay. The problem with healthcare in this country is that government got involved in the first place. We can't blame capitalism because healthcare has not operated under a truly capitalist system. Peoople think the solution is more government, when really it's the government who seems to create more problems than it solves. Finally there is a general consensus in this country that those who are successful have done so only on the backs of others. Some would call me successful becasue I have a job, own a house, etc. I didn't stab anybody in the back to accomplish this, no one suffers as a result of my working 40 plus hours a week. I earn what I make and don't feel I should be forced to give it to someone else. If I paid less in taxes I would have more money to use at my own discretion. I would be able to donate money to my church or charities that provide healthcare are other services for those less fortunate. Charities are the ones who should provide for the less fortunate, not government.

(The "bold" is mine).

How exactly will a free market with no government "interference" provide all citizens with healthcare? I´f it won't, it it acceptable that some people have to do without healthcare?

I don't think that it's always a question of what the individual is willing to pay for a service, in some cases it's what they are able to pay.

How many products or services are priced in a way that 100% of the population can afford them?

Maximizing profits does't mean making a product affordable for everyone. If you price your product according to what the person who can afford the least can pay, your company will earn a lot less than it could. A company that wants to stay viable won't adopt that strategy and that's the reason I don't think that healthcare should ever be left to the "free market".

You say that charities should provide for the less fortunate, not government. I strongly disagree.

I've never felt that I'm being forced to pay for someone else when I pay taxes. I pay taxes for many things; healthcare, public transportation, infrastructure, the school system, daycare, fire/rescue/police and lots of other things. I benefit from some of them directly but all of them indirectly in the sense that I live in a safe, clean, healthy and humane society.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

I earn what I make and don't feel I should be forced to give it to someone else. If I paid less in taxes I would have more money to use at my own discretion. I would be able to donate money to my church or charities that provide healthcare are other services for those less fortunate. Charities are the ones who should provide for the less fortunate, not government.

*** YOU recieve fantastic benifits from living in a healthy society. YOU should help pay for the benifits your and your family recieve.

[tewdles, RN]

*** YOU recieve fantastic benifits from living in a healthy society. YOU should help pay for the benifits your and your family recieve.

Thank you for that response...I am getting weary of the "only out for myself" mentality that is creeping into the center or our civil dialog.

[macawake, MSN]

Thank you for that response...I am getting weary of the "only out for myself" mentality that is creeping into the center or our civil dialog.

I absolutely agree with this sentiment.

I've seen opinions on the subject of healthcare that have surprised and saddened me, especially considering that this is a nursing forum. Call me naive, but to me it's unthinkable that a healthcare worker who has experienced first-hand what accidents and disease can do to a person and their loved ones can be against healthcare being accessible to all people.

I just realized that I haven't really commented on this threads main question, is healthcare a right?

Well, I believe that it is. The possibility to successfully live a quality life and "pursue happiness" is pretty remote if your health is severely compromised.

In my country, the right to healthcare is guarranteed by law.

The legal text is miles long but the first few paragraphs are roughly (due to my non-perfect translation skills) as follows:

"The aim for healthcare is good health and access to healthcare for the entire population on equal terms. Healthcare should be given with respect and consideration to all human beings equal value and the dignity of the individual person.

Healthcare should be of high quality and provided with good hygienic standards and meet the patient's need for security and safety.

Healthcare should be easily accessible.

Healthcare should be based on respect of the patient's autonomy and integrity.

Healthcare should fullfill the patient's need for continuity of care."

There's lots more, but this conveys the general intention of the law.

[Destiny'skid]

To me the question is not so much whether or not healthcare is a right. Depends how you define right. We have a serious problem in this country because healthcare is a business. Nurses probably suffer the most because of this, they are often under payed over worked and can be accused by disgruntled patients for simply doing their job.

The first job I had as an aide was a for profit rehab. I was shocked how much emphasis was placed in delivering excellent costumer service as opposed to excellent care. To me the focus of healthcare should be healthcare and nurses and aides are not waitresses. Nurses have doctors orders to carry out and aides have nurses orders.

This supposedly customer service oriented facility put one aide to 14 plus total care patients and one lpn to twice that many. (That was if we were fully staffed which almost never happened) Yet we were supposed to greet family members with a cheery smile because our job was deliver excellent costumer service.

I saw things to on in that place that I can't bare to mention.

I could go on and on pharmaceutical companies running all drug research. Lobbyists. Doctors being forced by the board of directors to over prescribe surgeries or admit more patients.

Are books a right? No one thinks twice about public libraries and we all benefit from them and no one who borrows books is ever accused of leaching off the system.

It's no secret that government jobs are well paid jobs and nurses wouldn't likely have a win win if healthcare washer like the library or postal system.

One last thing, before we accuse the poor of this country lets look at the huge amounts of corporate welfare and tax breaks the rich enjoy. Why is that not considered leaching?

We are in just as much danger if not more of losing our freedom to these corporations.

So is healthcare a right? Is education? A postal system? A fire and rescue squad in each town? Or a police force? Perhaps none of these things are yet I am not ready to give them up.

[shermrn]

*** YOU recieve fantastic benifits from living in a healthy society. YOU should help pay for the benifits your and your family recieve.

I do pay for the benifits my family and I receive, I pay taxes, I pay insurance. What am I not paying for?

[shermrn]

(The "bold" is mine).

How exactly will a free market with no government "interference" provide all citizens with healthcare? I´f it won't, it it acceptable that some people have to do without healthcare?

I don't think that it's always a question of what the individual is willing to pay for a service, in some cases it's what they are able to pay.

How many products or services are priced in a way that 100% of the population can afford them?

Maximizing profits does't mean making a product affordable for everyone. If you price your product according to what the person who can afford the least can pay, your company will earn a lot less than it could. A company that wants to stay viable won't adopt that strategy and that's the reason I don't think that healthcare should ever be left to the "free market".

You say that charities should provide for the less fortunate, not government. I strongly disagree.

I've never felt that I'm being forced to pay for someone else when I pay taxes. I pay taxes for many things; healthcare, public transportation, infrastructure, the school system, daycare, fire/rescue/police and lots of other things. I benefit from some of them directly but all of them indirectly in the sense that I live in a safe, clean, healthy and humane society.

I guess I was trying to say that a large part of the problem with health care is that government is too involved. Also, it's true that there will always be people who can not afford to pay for healthcare, this is where charity comes in. The problem with forcing me to pay for someone elses healthcare is that I don't believe the government manages money well, if I get to keep more of my income then I can choose how best to spend it and give it to the charity of my choice. I can give to a charity that reflects my basic values and uses it's resources wisely rather than giving it to the government.

[shermrn]

People need to learn to stop depending on and expecting the government to provide everything for them. I don't know who said it but a government who can give you everything you want can just as easily take it all away. This country is about freedom, freedom to succeed or fail, those who succeed have a moral obligation to help out those who don't. I said a moral obligation, not some arbitrary government imposed requirement, that's not governments responsibility.

[shermrn]

duplicate post

[tewdles, RN]

I guess I was trying to say that a large part of the problem with health care is that government is too involved. Also, it's true that there will always be people who can not afford to pay for healthcare, this is where charity comes in. The problem with forcing me to pay for someone elses healthcare is that I don't believe the government manages money well, if I get to keep more of my income then I can choose how best to spend it and give it to the charity of my choice. I can give to a charity that reflects my basic values and uses it's resources wisely rather than giving it to the government.

You are already paying for the cost of the uninsured...you are just doing it in the most expensive way possible.

We have had government out of our health care, it has been run by capitalists.

As a result we have the worst health outcomes at the highest cost in the world with millions uninsured and millions more under-insured. Too many middle class people are forced into bankrupcy every year due to medical bills.

Our free market health system now costs us a significant portion of our GDP...you pay for it in that respect too. Before recommending we return to the failures of the past, perhaps you could consider improving things for the people of the country rather than the corporations.

I would much rather pay federal taxes to insure that my fellow citizens are healthy than to pay federal taxes to insure that corporations get their entitlements and record profits.

It is the government's job to protect the people...not the church.