International Registered Nurses

ainz · Jul 26, 2003

Nurses in other countries definitely think about coming here to work. I am travelling abroad to speak to a group that is coming to America to work. We have recruited nurses from two other countries.

Many nurses in other countries do not have the same expectations as American nurses. Many foreign nurses (of course it depends on the culture and form of government to some degree) are not taught nor encouraged to develop their critical thinking skills. Nursing is more task oriented, they follow doctors orders without question. They are not expected nor encouraged to question doctor's orders.

I base these statement purely on my own experiences with foreign nurses. I would encourage you to talk to some nurses from other countries who practiced there for a while and now have been here for a while.

bewbew · Jul 26, 2003

If i could uproot my family and do it in New York I would be there in a blink!

Diana in Sweden · Jul 26, 2003

Originally posted by ainz
[b Many foreign nurses (of course it depends on the culture and form of government to some degree) are not taught nor encouraged to develop their critical thinking skills. Nursing is more task oriented, they follow doctors orders without question. They are not expected nor encouraged to question doctor's orders.
[/b]

this is not true of Swedish nurses .. we have a legal obligation to question orders and if we administer medication or treatment that we should have reasonable known to be wrong or in the wrong dose without questioning the doc we lose our license and may face jail time ..

we are also trained in critical thinking

I wonder what our members from other countries have experienced ?

ps I understand that you meant absolutely no offence and I am sure that what you have seen is true for many countries .. I just wanted to share what our training and work conditions are ds

I_Love_Donuts · Jul 26, 2003

Same for Switzerland, France and Canada!

gwenith, BSN, RN · Jul 26, 2003

Don't know that I want to work in America but Idefinitely want ot visit one day.

I guess like a lot of us the American system of lawsuits is more than a little scarey. See we here, like England are covered by Vicarious liablility and this does give a degree of safety.

I also have to agree with Dianna in Sweden when I say we are definitely taught to critically think, challenge doctors orders and work in a wide variety of settings. We also seem to have a broader job description with fewer CNA and LPN's especially in the acute care setting.

I think the ability to challenge authority is a cultural rather than a learnt behaviour. I have met nurses from mainland China who because of thier background find it difficult to speak out. On the other hand I know many Phillippino nurses who do not hesitate to tell you exactly what they think (nicely of course:))!

echo4689 · Jul 29, 2003

There are many foreigh nurses want to go to U.S .Maybe for different reasons . For me , i want to get more and better practice and have more experience in my life.

p.s we are taught to critically think, challenge doctors orders and work ,don't just follow . Because that's we administer ~~

live4today, RN · Jul 29, 2003

With the thousands upon thousands of unemployed nurses in this United States, I do not understand for the life of me WHY admin is going elsewhere to recruit? I thought the "BUDGET" was the reason nurses were being let go, not hired, stretched too thin taking care of unsafe patient loads.......and so forth??? You mean to tell me the admin and hospital CEOs are lying to us?

If they have money to fly nurse recruiters to other countries to recruit and hire them, bring them back to USA hospitals for USA nurses to orient so they can work as part of the staff, then WHY ON EARTH DON'T THEY HAVE MONEY to hire back the nurses that WANT TO WORK in these United States??? :confused:

I have said this before, and I will die with it on my tombstone:

There is NO nursing shortage, only a shortage of brain power to comprehend the reason USA nurses are leaving unsafe work conditions!

Bringing foreign nurses here to work is only going to compound the problems that are there that Admin and CEOs don't want to resolve because it may just make a nurse content enough to stay until retirement? :rolleyes:

Bring them on! Give them a little time on the job where their own nursing licenses are put at risk, and we'll see how much more money the powers that be will throw away before they finally figure out the solutions to the problems that exist in nursing today are right under their noses. I rest my case........for now.

Isabel Lobes · Oct 3, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by ainz

[b Many foreign nurses (of course it depends on the culture and form of government to some degree) are not taught nor encouraged to develop their critical thinking skills. Nursing is more task oriented, they follow doctors orders without question. They are not expected nor encouraged to question doctor's orders.

[/b]

Agreed. Most of the hospital in my part just do the above but again not everyone. I have graduated from one of the best Hospital in Asia i.e. Aga Khan University Hospital and have been lucky to be employed by them as well and in my hospital nurses are the boss and can even question the doctors and point out their mistake. Thank Gad for this. But unfortunately most of the nurses are in Pathetic conditions and are treated like sh....

Ask us the third world country and we will die to come to the US for the betterment not only because of better prospect but for the respect of nursing.

In my part of the world, nurses are treated as prostitute and taken for granted whether to follow the doctor's order without question or in certain areas go to bed with him!

As far as recruiting from other countries is concerned this is true because I my self have been recruited and am in the process of migrating. Bringing foreign nurses to US is cheaper then getting your own people to graduate as I understand which is quite expensive. Whereas here it is free but the tragedy is that no one wants to become a nurse because of the stigma. Secondly I think recruiting foreign nurse is cheaper in another way that is you can pay them less and get more work, just a thought, not sure as I have about 13 years of practice and have been offered US$ 16/hr, I wonder what the current rate would be in San Antonio where I am going to be based.

Well these are my thoughts and experience, would love to hear more about US nursing.

poki · Oct 3, 2003

I just had to say this in reply to ainz's post regarding the critical thinking on foreign nurses... I am very proud of been a nurse from Puerto Rico. As well as US Nurses..every single word in the nursing courses include the word "juicio critico" or critical thinking.

wmarat, BSN, RN · Oct 4, 2003

I'd like to come to the USA. Many of my nurses-friends want the same. But all of us are stuck with CGFNS. It is the worst organization I've ever seen. My documents are received and accepted by it but I've been waiting for permit to exam for more than one year. That the reason why I am looking now for other countries to immigrate to.

ainz · Oct 4, 2003

My comments about critical thinking and questioning doctors is largely descriptive of Asian healthcare systems and nursing. Not meant to offend anyone or to promote the arrogant idea that America is superior and has the market cornered on how to delivery top quality care.

My recent trip to Asia confirmed to me (in Asia anyway) that there are many many nurses who would jump at the chance to come to America. No offense toward Asia, but, my hospital tours there were quite eye-opening. If you want to talk about and see absolutely deplorable working conditions, go visit a few hospitals in Asia. Compared to nurses' working conditions in Asia, American nurses have it made lavishly, but of course, that is in Asia. I got to know a nurse manager pretty well. She has been a nurse with a BSN fo 15 years. She is the manager of a large outpatient unit in a very large (1000 + beds) hospital. She makes $300 per month. Adjusting for cost of living and currency exchange, that is about $18,000 USD.

So with this scenario, foreign nurses who are able to get through the cumbersome CGFNS process will jump at the chance to come here. Of course not everyone thinks the USA is the place to be as the Asian nurses I met are very proud of their countries and love where they live.

So going from $8.65/hr as an experienced nurse manager (as my friend in Asia) to the American national average of around $22/hr is an increase in standard of living worthy of consideration for Asian nurses.