If healthcare reform resulted in salary caps of $40k for nurses would you stay?

allnurses Guide · Jul 22, 2009

I probably would go ahead and get a job at the local Toyota factory. As it is now, I could go there and, once becoming a full time employee, make more than what I make now. As a line worker. The pressure's on me to keep my own arm from getting chopped up... don't have to worry about anyone else's health!

keithjones · Jul 22, 2009

There is proper reform that gets rid of things that are broken and fills in the gaps and then there is the current 1400 pages of pure crap that no one has even read that is being forced through congress! Obama can't even answer peoples questions about it correctly (or is lying about its contents) and Blue Dog Democrats won't even support it!

It is just like the "stimulus" that got rammed through that has helped increase unemployment by 2% and fixed absolutely nothing while quadrupling the deficit, it is pure demagoguery. DO it right, don't just do it to say you did it.

missy--kay · Jul 22, 2009

"I'm curious: is there a source for the numbers you used? Is there a proposal out there in the initiatives being put forward for capping nursing pay? Or are you being proactive?"
I don't think he/she's being proactive - I think of it as spreading unfounded fear.

How is starting an active discussion "spreading unfounded fear"? You only want to think about and discuss ideas are set in stone? It's not okay to discuss "what ifs"?

BeeJayCeeYa · Jul 22, 2009

Okay, keithjones, now you are being open about your position. Do it right? I am too cynical to believe that our government will get it right on the first try. There is too much money involved in maintaining the status quo. But it IS a first step and a much needed one. "Proper reform"? Proper for who? Our president lying? Harsh accusation without supporting evidence. He can't answer people's questions? Supporting documentation, please.

Let's use the Medicare prescription coverage program as an example of how our government works. One of my state's senators co-authored a bill that instituted the coverage while denying the govt. the ability to negotiate costs. Then he retired and went to work as a lobbyist. For the drug companies. Surprise! But was the program needed? Yes. Was it done 'right'? I don't think so. Will it be improved? I'm sure of it. The same thing WILL happen with healthcare so let's at least have an open, non-derogatory discussion about it. The hard cold facts are we pay more per capita and get less coverage than any developed country. Need the citation?

VORB · Jul 22, 2009

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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/07/21/obama_not_familiar_with_key_provision_in_health_care_bill.html

keithjones · Jul 22, 2009

One example of the Wrong way its about to get done...

Mandatory counseling for seniors every 5 years on end of life issues

This would create a bureaucracy of over 300,000 employees and cost billions and once you create a new agency to handle all of this you can't just lay off 300,000 people!

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/07/21/obama_not_familiar_with_key_provision_in_health_care_bill.html

I see you found the link too hehe

BeeJayCeeYa · Jul 22, 2009

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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/07/21/obama_not_familiar_with_key_provision_in_health_care_bill.html

Good for you for a more thorough and researched position! :yeah: Here's one back atcha! As long as we are requiring people to know specific details of documents, would you mind reciting to me the 3rd line of your nurse's license. And no peeking! Or would you be more likely to say that you don't have it memorized but can state what it authorizes you to do? That's how I am hearing that clip.

heron, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2009

Good for you for a more thorough and researched position! Here's one back atcha! As long as we are requiring people to know specific details of documents, would you mind reciting to me the 3rd line of your nurse's license. And no peeking! Or would you be more likely to say that you don't have it memorized but can state what it authorizes you to do? That's how I am hearing that clip.

What we are asking is that people know what they're arguing about. We all know about creative editing ... the media does it all the time.

It's human nature to see what they want to see in a given piece of writing.

If you ask me to base an opinion on the third line of my nursing license, I'm bloody well going to check on what it says.

BeeJayCeeYa · Jul 22, 2009

What we are asking is that people know what they're arguing about. We all know about creative editing ... the media does it all the time.
It's human nature to see what they want to see in a given piece of writing.
If you ask me to base an opinion on the third line of my nursing license, I'm bloody well going to check on what it says.

YES! And too many people don't even have the sense to 'moo' before they are headed off to the slaughter house. And no, I didn't ask you to base an 'opinion' about one line. Realistically, I asked you/anyone to tell me if the average person could quote that one segment of a very important document as opposed to what the document authorizes. Folks, don't listen to a right- or left-wing media star interpret the details for you. Look further into it. This is important. And stop accepting made-up numbers. One side makes up unicorns & rainbows while the other presents fire & brimstone.

Well, this has been fun and keithjones, thank you for starting people (and me, especially) thinking about this. Now I have to go back to my real world.

PS - As someone who had to put an in-law in a nursing home, has a father with cancer, and a mother who has started to fall down on occassion -- NONE of whom saw/sees a need to alter lifestyle -- I can see the need for end-of-life counseling. Of course, when it comes to these details, we are all stubborn mules so maybe making it mandatory is the way to go about it. I don't know where your numbers came from, Keith, so I can't take a position.

NickB · Jul 22, 2009

That is certainly a possibility and I would like to know if that is the case. I don't want to prejudge the OP one way of the other so I asked. I have a couple of questions of my own:
If healthcare reform resulted in an additional 20 million people having access to healthcare, would you stay?
If healthcare reform resulted in the end of million dollar bonuses for insurance executives based on curtailing costs by limiting treatments, would you stay?
If healthcare reform resulted in a patient and his/her doctor making the decisions about his/her treatment as opposed to being limited to what the insurance would pay, would you stay?
If healthcare reform resulted in the end of a polio vaccine innoculation costing over $1,400, would you stay? (Y'up, I have a statement that lists that price.)
Sorry, I am just throwing in some of the flip-side of the coin.

I don't think these questions are the flip side of the original post. I think the original post looks at this from the most reasonable way a nurse should look at this. Afterall, our country is full of people who make decisions mostly for themselves. In the end, they don't care what it will do for others. It's always " Me Me Me." I think this question is very feasible. Will it happen? Maybe not. But it might. There is only so much money that can be put into the system. If everyone in the country has access to medical care, then there will certainly be way more people in doctor's offices and in hospitals. That will most certainly require more nurses with the same supply of money to go around. (Remember, the government can only collect so much tax money.) Therefore, there will be no shortage of nursing jobs, but it's reasonable to think that there may be lower wages. Afterall, isn't that the plan for the doctors. Everyone thinks they make too much money and this system will certainly lower their wages. What makes you think nurses are immune to this. I have been wondering the question in the original post since the talk of Universal Healthcare began. I think it is something that should be in the back of all of our minds.

TravelinCEN · Jul 22, 2009

Quick response to the 40K question.

HECK NO! Id go sell Tupperware for 40K.

tencat · Jul 22, 2009

If I didn't have to pay out the nose for crappy health insurance for my family, and I could make my current bills, yes, I'd work for $40,000/yr.