How Will Universal Health Care Change Nursing?

Nurses General Nursing

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How will universal health care change the Nursing profession? Will we finally get ratios? Will our pay go up, or down? What about benefits? Will the quality of care improve, slide, or stay the same? How would a "single-payer" system be structured? Would this be the end of the insurance industry as we know it? I would like to hear from everyone who has an opinion about any of these questions.

Recently, last week, when president Obama addressed the AMA he made a statement that there are a number of countries who have Universal Health Care aka socialized medicine, where the system worked very well,but he never went on to name any. I wrote to my Congressman (Ron Klein, D-Fl) and asked him to name some. He hasn't responded. There won't be any named, because there aren't any.

I agree there is a problem with our current practices and programs but socialized medicine is not the answer. Don't fool yourselves and think Obama's plan is not socialized medicine. The more you look at the government's in volvement in our public, let alone private lives the more the book 1984 comes true. First the banks, the bailout is a joke, then the auto industry, the government has a contolling interest in GM. Thank God for Ford. Now the FDA is going after Cheerio's . What next??????????? The number of children we're allowed to have. Why are there so many Canadian nurses working in the US???

Sure someone can quote me chapter and verse how great the proposed health plan is but the bottom line is "Who is going to pay for it?????"

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I'd love to have a government health insurance plan like Medicaid, Medicare, VA...any of them. I'm a LPN having a really hard time finding work. Working for temp. agencies, I never get enough hours to qualify for the insurance that they say they offer, I'm available but I think they try to keep hours down. The market is flooded right now and the pay is very low. I can't afford to pay for private insurance. So yeah, I'd love one of the above.

Right now, illegal immigrants have insurance (Medicaid) and I don't.

So, I am for a universal type plan - that seems to work very well in European countries. Paying 1.5 % of one's income so that every legal citizen could be insured, sounds like a good plan to me. Nurses and doctors would still earn a good living. Would there be super rich neurosurgeons? Maybe not, but that seems over blown to me anyway. Would television doctors still get rich selling their own products? Probably.

Do healthcare providers actually sell drugs in Europe? I don't think so. But here in the US, Walgreens, CVS, and Walmart, large drug sellers, now provide healthcare visits. This seems a conflict of interest.

So, that's my stand....for a start, a universal or single payer type of plan that would assure healthcare for every legal citizen sounds good to me.

And by the way, I can easily see that a single parent with three children, making 50K a year would have a really hard time paying the 3-4 hundred dollars per month that even insurance through an employer could cost. I had 1 child and it cost $190 per month plus the co-pays, etc. and that was ten years ago.

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Many of these countries have Federal Government Universal Healthcare. Coincidence???

Top 10 Most Expensive Cities in the World

1. Luanda, Angola

2008 rank: 1

Movie ticket (in US$): 16.85

Quick lunch (in US$): 57.92

Washing machine (in US$): 1090.47

Kilo (2.2 pounds) of rice (in US$): 5.65

Can of soft drink (in US$): 1.30

2. Tokyo, Japan

2008 rank: 13

Movie ticket: 19.16

Quick lunch: 16.48

Washing machine: 886.77

Kilo of rice: 8.45

Can of soft drink: 1.75

3. Nagoya, Japan

2008 rank: 20

Movie ticket: 17.46

Quick lunch: 15.33

Washing machine: 899.97

Kilo of rice: 8.80

Can of soft drink: 1.57

4. Yokohama, Japan

2008 rank: 15

Movie ticket: 18.48

Quick lunch: 17.11

Washing machine: 910.04

Kilo of rice: 6.28

Can of soft drink: 1.18

5. Kobe, Japan

2008 rank: 29

Movie ticket: 16.92

Quick lunch: 14.96

Washing machine: 588.32

Kilo of rice: 7.09

Can of soft drink: 1.38

6. Copenhagen, Denmark

2008 rank: 4

Movie ticket: 13.31

Quick lunch: 28.71

Washing machine: 1053.27

Kilo of rice: 4.24

Can of soft drink: 2.12

7. Oslo, Norway

2008 rank: 2

Movie ticket: 12.84

Quick lunch: 32.65

Washing machine: 808.01

Kilo of rice: 4.40

Can of soft drink: 2.07

8. Geneva, Switzerland

2008 rank: 6

Movie ticket: 14.07

Quick lunch: 27.57

Washing machine: 1213.67

Kilo of rice: 3.48

Can of soft drink: 1.02

9. Zurich, Switzerland

2008 rank: 8

Movie ticket: 14.11

Quick lunch: 21.56

Washing machine: 978.45

Kilo of rice: 2.79

Can of soft drink: 0.99

10. Basel, Switzerland

2008 rank: 9

Movie ticket: 13.73

Quick lunch: 21.15

Washing machine: 744.59

Kilo of rice: 3.01

Can of soft drink: 1.03

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I'm not sure I get the point...

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Specializes in ER/EHR Trainer.
What do folks mean when they refer to a "moral obligation" in terms of our federal government providing universal health care coverage?

I must be missing something here because I've never read in our Constitution where it gives our federal government authority over the states on this subject.

IMO - The basis of this argument is equivalent to a person saying that I have a moral right to walk over to my neighbor and hold a gun to their heads and unlawfully demand that they give me their money to help me pay for my family's medical expenses? That doesn't sound too high-minded or virtuous to me.

I'd encourage more of the individuals within the so called "majorities" on this website who favor government funded universal health care to practice what you preach and start helping folks out at a community level with your own money. If the so called "majorities" within our communities truly lived up to the moral obligations they try to impose illegitimately onto their neighbors through our federal government, then many if not all of the disparities we see in our health care system would cease to exist. Until then save your breath on the "moral obligation" philosophies. Take care.

Wow, your version of ethics doesn't even come close to how us "majority people" view ethical decision making. The disparities in healthcare will never change unless access to care, education, health literacy and practioner cultural competence levels are addressed. For once I wish people would get out of the box and look past their own neck of the woods. Get with the program people, we are failing. We have failed our citizens. We already spend billions on incomplete healthcare. Listen to the possibilities and keep an open mind.

We should help our neighbors, unfortunately I can't perform surgery on mine, can you? So much for that theory.

Oh I want to add since you are providing numbers for different countries that we spend the most on healthcare globally! Twice as much as Canada, AND GUESS WHAT? CANADIANS LIVE LONGER AND HAVE A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE! The difference? UHC!

M

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Just trying to add to the discussion in a postive way:

For all who are spouting statistics, one thing I learned in completing my PhD (stats can show you anything you want them to show you, so I rather put my stock in people and not statistics).

I agree with many that our current healthcare system IS NOT WORKING. For those who can afford to pay and want your own insurance I say, yes do it (I do not want your choice taken away), but for those who cannot there must be an option that does not bankrupt the individual/family or the country.

Let's be a bit realistic at this time, what is your PERSONAL experience in healthcare and has it worked for you?

The answer for me is No, a couple of years ago I had a lump removed (benign thankfully) from my breast and my out of pocket expenses were over $5000 (with health insurance). I did pay that fee but for many who have basic expenses with families (which is only me) that would be unaffordable. My personal experience is that insurance is the biggest racket on earth but we all need it (I personally have health insurance, disability insurance (long/short), long term care insurance, and three life insurance policies, not to mention auto and home, but how many times have I accessed them and when I do, do I really need a hassel to get money I have put in the system for this very event?).

The bigggest areas of need are:

1. Prescription drugs (cost are way too high)

2. Hospitalization costs (again way too high, look at an itemized bill, everything is charged but NURSING SERVICES, why are we not worth anything?)

3. Need to change the belief that illness is a good thing (insurance companies, drug companies) because wellness is much better and focus on that (and stop building nursing curriculas on the MEDICAL MODEL- which is illness focused)

As far as how it will affect nursing, most nurses I know are not in it for the MONEY they are in it for the experience of helping others (including myself) so it can affect us in a POSITIVE way if we take ownership of this issue as our policy piece that we want to work on.

My final thoughts:

1. We do need an affordable healthcare system (change is needed).

2. We need to be realistic about what kind of change we can afford and who will be responsible.

3. Nursing has an opportunity to take charge of this issue (not the drug companies, not the doctors, not the insurance companies) because all of these entities have gotten us in this mess right now!

4. But where is the nursing leadership on this, we need to stop fighting among each other, BSN vs ADN vs LPN vs CNA vs (whoever) and refocus on helping PATIENTS.

5. Because I have four degrees I am not better than you, it just means I have spent more time in school, we all can contribute in a positive manner so let's respect each other and get the job done (we have 15 minutes left in our shift and there is much work to be done)!

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recently, last week, when president obama addressed the ama he made a statement that there are a number of countries who have universal health care aka socialized medicine, where the system worked very well,but he never went on to name any. i wrote to my congressman (ron klein, d-fl) and asked him to name some. he hasn't responded. there won't be any named, because there aren't any.

i agree there is a problem with our current practices and programs but socialized medicine is not the answer. don't fool yourselves and think obama's plan is not socialized medicine. the more you look at the government's in volvement in our public, let alone private lives the more the book 1984 comes true. first the banks, the bailout is a joke, then the auto industry, the government has a contolling interest in gm. thank god for ford. now the fda is going after cheerio's . what next??????????? the number of children we're allowed to have. why are there so many canadian nurses working in the us???

sure someone can quote me chapter and verse how great the proposed health plan is but the bottom line is "who is going to pay for it?????"

i feel you but canandian nurses are working in the us for more than the money and definitely not the healthcare. it's that it's the us...immigrants come here everyday for various reasons but if that canandian nurse got sick, if she could make it back home, she'd get the same care that everyone there receives and would only pay that minimal amount. notice that these folks who are citizens elsewhere usually only receive the basics here and go back home for serious health issues (that's when they'd be eaten alive in the us) where treatment is really low or no cost. if they're gone from their country for some extended period of time, they usually have to pay a little more, typically equal to a couple of hundred dollars per year. ask someone.

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I'm glad you brought it out about the money, I should have stated it better, most nurses I know don't go into nursing for the money but we are definitely not getting paid as much as we are worth!!! How to correct this deficit, stop fighting with each other, put nurses in charge of nurses who care about NURSES (such a simple statement) and stand up for NURSING!!!

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http://videolog.uol.com.br/video.php?id=415355

This is a normal government funded hospital in Recife, Brazil. UHC... Thinking out of the box... Please... Private pay hospitals in Brazil are very good and in many ways comparable to American hospitals. Take care.

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just trying to add to the discussion in a postive way:

for all who are spouting statistics, one thing i learned in completing my phd (stats can show you anything you want them to show you, so i rather put my stock in people and not statistics).

i agree with many that our current healthcare system is not working. for those who can afford to pay and want your own insurance i say, yes do it (i do not want your choice taken away), but for those who cannot there must be an option that does not bankrupt the individual/family or the country.

let's be a bit realistic at this time, what is your personal experience in healthcare and has it worked for you?

the answer for me is no, a couple of years ago i had a lump removed (benign thankfully) from my breast and my out of pocket expenses were over $5000 (with health insurance). i did pay that fee but for many who have basic expenses with families (which is only me) that would be unaffordable. my personal experience is that insurance is the biggest racket on earth but we all need it (i personally have health insurance, disability insurance (long/short), long term care insurance, and three life insurance policies, not to mention auto and home, but how many times have i accessed them and when i do, do i really need a hassel to get money i have put in the system for this very event?).

the bigggest areas of need are:

1. prescription drugs (cost are way too high)

2. hospitalization costs (again way too high, look at an itemized bill, everything is charged but nursing services, why are we not worth anything?)

3. need to change the belief that illness is a good thing (insurance companies, drug companies) because wellness is much better and focus on that (and stop building nursing curriculas on the medical model- which is illness focused)

as far as how it will affect nursing, most nurses i know are not in it for the money they are in it for the experience of helping others (including myself) so it can affect us in a positive way if we take ownership of this issue as our policy piece that we want to work on.

my final thoughts:

1. we do need an affordable healthcare system (change is needed).

2. we need to be realistic about what kind of change we can afford and who will be responsible.

3. nursing has an opportunity to take charge of this issue (not the drug companies, not the doctors, not the insurance companies) because all of these entities have gotten us in this mess right now!

4. but where is the nursing leadership on this, we need to stop fighting among each other, bsn vs adn vs lpn vs cna vs (whoever) and refocus on helping patients.

5. because i have four degrees i am not better than you, it just means i have spent more time in school, we all can contribute in a positive manner so let's respect each other and get the job done (we have 15 minutes left in our shift and there is much work to be done)!

i've commented about health insurance. so, i'll respond to your comment about nurses working together. nurses, all combined, make one of the largest worker populations in the us. there are more nurses than all medical areas of practice. fact of the matter, we work in all areas of practice. i think there are more nurses than lawyers (we are lawyers, too) and many other professions. if we were together, we could contol the healthcare arena, based on sheer numbers alone. we wouldn't do that, just for control's sake but if we stuck together and quit the in-fighting, we could be a major participant in determining standards of care. sure, we participate but somehow though we know the numbers that are good for the patient, his care and safety, we don't seem to control that.

we, like physicians, work in every area of healthcare, not just on the hospital floors but in radiology, research, pharmacology...all of the specialities...you name it...even the insurance companies...except there are more of us. our numbers should control healthcare, we should be hospital administrators, along side the physicians. we should write policy along with the physcian. we should be up there with the docs, drug sellers, researchers and insurance companies, we're there to some degree, but we should be equals. healthcare would not the wreck that it is now if that were so. i may sound like an ego maniac but we're the ones who touch the patients with our hands and our hearts...

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:nono: this might work in other states ( but you are talking about specifics of a system -universal or socialized,) that is not in place yet, but will be because our current health system is not working....a change is a must !! These are things to hurdle as we go thru the new health changes, and just like everything else , it is not going to be perfect , but definitely not disabled as the current health system. As for the State being in charge----this is not going to work for California! We are so broke (God knows where that money went? ) , and the governor is trying to get some money from the bottom of the pot , such as the family and childrens health insurance. Don't you think this is worth trying something new from the current system? With the way the rate is going now, everybody will be broke !!!! Please let us try to look at the bigger picture ...do not be afraid to try something different, specially when the current health system is so cancerous !!!! Let us change the system now , and a lot of other changes will follow as we go through the process. Unless you are one of those rich ones who have a lot of money to spend for your health care.:rolleyes:

We need a solution that will give the poor the access to healthcare they need but at the same time not screw rich people just for being rich. That kind of society limits incentive because it's like if you exceed a certain income bracket, the government automatically starts taking a third of your income.

It's really tempting to say "They have more money than anyone even NEEDS so it doesn't matter how much they're taxed!" and try to play Robin Hood, but while the government may have a social obligation to help people to a minimum quality of life, drawing a line to set a maximum quality of life isn't ethical. We can say that nobody really needs a 24 room mansion, but a lot of middle class families can technically GET BY with just one car instead of three.

The government (even state) needs to clean up its act and reevaluate its priorities so that we can give people healthcare coverage without raising the tax rate. Corporate welfare is a giant waste of money. It's ridiculous for companies to buy jets and fill their offices with designer furniture and then go to the government wanting money. Bailouts are in the tune of BILLIONS of dollars. I say let corporations live and die with the market - it may create a less stable economy, but will save money.

I stand by the fact that state-based socialist healthcare is best because it has a good chance of eliminating problems with queuing and bottleneck effect.

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Specializes in Psychiatric, MICA.

Ask me where I rate my health compared to highway development, education, crime prevention, air traffic control.

I'm not working right now. My wife has RA and a compromised immune system. Yesterday she began coughing, c/o lethargy, sore throat. No coverage because it went with the job. We are poised to visit the doctor out of pocket if it gets worse. We are in our 50's - it is a scary thought that we may face this again in our 70's!

I don't care where the coverage comes from, but it's pretty darn stupid that healthcare is a personal responsibility and not a social one, while my taxes are used to monitor TV bandwidth and develop new ways to kill people.

Is there something more basic to human life and happiness than individual health? In absolutely no world I can conceive up should nourishment, shelter and other basics not include both preventative and acute healthcare.

D

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