How much waste do you see?

Published

So after the MM 'sicko' thread, me and some of my co-workers got to talking last night about the whole univ health care issue and what's best. We all agreed that, on our unit esp, we see a lot of dollars that could go elsewhere and we see a lot of wasteful spending in our system. We basically take patients that are dead or near death. We save patients that are homeless and leave them on vents for months at a time where we know we will never get that money back when they die. We also see the same with illegals. About 1/2 of our patients do not have any form of insurance (so they wont be paying) and they still get to sit on the vent and rot until they die for thousands of dollars a day. This is a huge waste to me. In other units perspectively, how much wasting of healthcare dollars do you see?

Actually if YOU read the original post you will see that the poster stated how the hospital will "never get the money back" when homeless and "illegals" die. The poster goes on to complain that 1/2 of the patients don't have insurance and closes with the question of how much "healthcare dollars go to waste." It NEVER states anything about dying with dignity- only money.

:yeahthat: TRUE

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

Saving a life is NEVER a waste. Trying to save a life that is otherwise futile is. For example, a brain dead patient that remains alive via life support. There is a difference. NOT EVERY PATIENT IS GOING TO LIVE. THAT IS A FACT OF LIFE. This is why doctors and nurses need to communicate to the family. This is why hospitals need to utilize their ethics committees to give support to families and help them make decisions. Just because someone does not have money to "pay back" the hospital does not mean that their life is as meaningless as someone who can.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
I see you are a nursing student, let me know how that philosophy works out for ya in the REAL world when you see bloated rotting corpses on vents who cannot eat for months at a time (not even TF, think stomach CA), their skin is falling off, they have no bottom left due to sores, their teeth are falling out, they have hardly any brain function left, and they are left to sit there and poop themselves all day. Is that saving anyone??? When you see it, you let me know how you feel. I find the fact that you'd want to "save" people like this disgusting!!! There is no saving someone who cannot be saved! You DONT COME BACK FROM THAT!!! So you code someone for 30 minutes and break their ribs and leave them bound and broken while the family (who wanted this in the first place) has their last memory of their loved one with you jumping up and down on their chest, hearing the ribs crack under your fingers, seeing blood and sputum fly from all orifices. After that happens for ya, I would love to really know how you feel.

Your original post never stated anything about sparing anyone any pain.

Your post only complained about allocating money to homeless, illegal, or unisured patients that cost "thousands of dollars a day" in wasted healthcare dollars.

This is what I found disgusting. That you would ever think that a person that was unable to pay would not be worth the vent down his throat.

Your original post wasn't about helping people die with dignity it was about wasting money on giving the disadvantaged a chance at life.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Education and oncology.

Interesting spin on this post- I too thought it was about wasting physical resources in the hospital- not "wasting" resources on patients, viable or futile. In oncology, I see the St IV metastatic cancer pt that is end stage and we send to the MICU for intensive care. (The ICU nurses hate our floor- we send them pts that will not recover.)

I also see every item left in a room after discharge- thrown away even if it was never opened. I see nurses throw towels into the biohazard bin, blue chux into the chemo bin and gloves into the sharps container.

I would bet none of us (except someone in purchasing) could tell how much the hospital pays to dispose of it's bio/chemo waste.

It's a lot.

So what's the answer to these two very different- but similar issues? I think education. Teach the family of the terminal cancer pt that ICU care won't change the end of the story- that hospice can make the remaining time more bearable and with better quality of life. That it's infinitely cheaper is nice- but not the reason to suggest it.

Limit supplies brought into a room. Our pts return every 3 weeks for their chemo- and they brought their own shampoo, soap, lotion, slippers etc. Don't pile the shelves with excess supplies. If it's not a precaution room, can housekeeping put the unopened supplies back? Our housekeepers are from China, Haiti, and other bone poor countries- they've said it makes them sick to see how much we waste in this country.

Bottom line, this "industry" can't keep going on like we are- at some point, we will HAVE to be more wise with resources.

:igtsyt:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Trauma ICU, Surgical ICU, Medical ICU.
Actually if YOU read the original post you will see that the poster stated how the hospital will "never get the money back" when homeless and "illegals" die. The poster goes on to complain that 1/2 of the patients don't have insurance and closes with the question of how much "healthcare dollars go to waste." It NEVER states anything about dying with dignity- only money.

I don't see how calling this post disgusting could be uncalled for- because the original post was focused on wasting money on patients that are unable to pay.

I did notice subsequent posts by the OP in which they tried to back peddle and change in order to sound as though they were complaining about venting the terminal, but this is not what the original post focused on.

I too hate when people don't read the post.

It doesnt state anything about dying with dignity, ONLY money. Thats what this post was about, money and wasteful things you see in the done in the hospital. I only mentioned these people because we know they wont be paying, therefore someone is left to absorb the cost. I really didnt want to cause a debate of my opinion but people have left me to defend it when I truly think they have no idea of what I meant. I could have posted a long debate about dying with dignity, but thats not what this was even about. One should know that all of us would want a patient to die with dignity, this shouldnt even be a question! Now, I realize I shouldn't have even stated my opinion in my OP, because so few can seem to look past it and just answer my question.

So yeah, I'm this big mean hairy nurse kevorkian who wants to kill the innocent and homeless to save money!! Burn me at the stake!!!! :rolleyes:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

That's so true. I always see dozons of those packages of bath wipes in patients rooms and people throw them out and bring in new ones. They are expensive.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
I see you are a nursing student, let me know how that philosophy works out for ya in the REAL world when you see bloated rotting corpses...

Interesting how there are numerous pages of people disagreeing with your post, but you pick out the nursing student to harass. :rolleyes:

It is true that a lot of money goes to waste in the hospital on meds, equipment, supplies, but please don't ever say resources spent on the underprivileged were wasted. That sounds elitist and insensitive.

And please don't think that because one is a student that they have no clue or no voice.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Trauma ICU, Surgical ICU, Medical ICU.
Interesting how there are numerous pages of people disagreeing with your post, but you pick out the nursing student to harass. :rolleyes:

It is true that a lot of money goes to waste in the hospital on meds, equipment, supplies, but please don't ever say resources spent on the underprivileged were wasted. That sounds elitist and insensitive.

And please don't think that because one is a student that they have no clue or no voice.

Well no one needs to be calling me "disgusting to the nursing profession"

But its all me, right. So no, I picked on no one. No one else chose to attack me in that way.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

Ya'll need to calm down before the thread gets closed. We shouldn't be attacking each other. We should be finding solutions to the issues at hand.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

Agree.

I'm going to ask that everyone step back, take a deep breath, and just take a few minutes before responding.

This topic will receive responses from, "I totally agree" to, "I'm simply outraged and disgusted".

So, please, let's debate the topic, not the person. All will go smoothly if we can do this.

Thanks!!!!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Cardiac.
Actually if YOU read the original post you will see that the poster stated how the hospital will "never get the money back" when homeless and "illegals" die.

Well, we don't. What's wrong with pointing that out? I live in an area where hospitals and departments have shut down due to illegals and homeless.

So?

Hospitals are a business, that's for sure. We can't give free care away.

The illegal problem is indeed a problem-a problem for another thread.

I didn't see the OP as backpeddeling. Rather as clarifying her point since so many people jumped on the bandwagon.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
As much as I love the clinical stuff I see, medicine is running a business & there are a lot of people that can't manage or run a business unit efficiently. I'm a former banker & I see waste on a daily basis on soooooo many levels. VERY SAD & this is a result of VERY DUMB people who have passed the NCLEX & can't deliver safe care, let alone balance their own checkbooks. Anyway, this is of course one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive. Then people wonder why it costs so much. I was thinking about taking some time off, but once I get my NCLEX out of the way, I'm going to start positioning myself for an MBA b/c it's going to get worse before it gets better. BTW what did you guys do to study for the NCLEX? Haven't passed twice & I'm working through Suzanne's 1st step, but I'm just curious.

UMMMMMM....let me see if I got this right, 'cuz I don't wanna pull this pin and toss unless I got this straight..Very dumb people who passed the NCLEX...You've taken it twice and not passed...I cant balance my checkbook, but I'm a great :nurse:! (and I passed the 1st time)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion