How much time needed to prepare for SEC?

pipolRN · Sep 12, 2011

I just want to ask Fiona59 or janfrn since you two are the experts when it comes to canadian nurses topics,so to speak. presently, my assessment for registration in CRNBC is on process.Im not sure what will be the result of their assessment but im hoping it will not be that bad since im confident with the credibility of my education and experience. My question is, all IEN should have SEC?what ive heard from a friend who is already in BC,CRnbc is requirng all IENs to have SEC. Personally i'm not against the mandate since it's also for my own benefit. Thank you .

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Sep 12, 2011

I'm out of practice for 3 years and counting. I have been out of practice because I went to Hongkong and work as a Domestic Helper so I can come to Canada. I entered Canada under the live-in caregiver program. I was working as a Nanny at the same time I started processing my application to get my license to work as nurse. Unfortunately, I cannot change the status of my work visa after I got my license, I can only work as a nurse until I get my permanent residency which takes about almost 4 years.
So, will you be hiring me? Can that be a valid reason?

This is EXACTLY why I tell people NOT to come to Canada as a live-in caregiver. None of the time you put in doing that will count when it comes time to register as a nurse, or when employers are looking at your application. When you enter the country under the temporary foreign worker category and take work as a domestic, that is the only work you are permitted to do. Permanent residency takes years, and isn't guaranteed. Employers want someone who can hit the floor running and they, for the most part, want someone with experience, RECENT, relevant NURSING experience. So the years you've sacrificed by working as a caregiver have been completely wasted - you're no closer to your goal than you were when you got off the plane.

My question is, all IEN should have SEC? what ive heard from a friend who is already in BC,CRnbc is requirng all IENs to have SEC. Personally i'm not against the mandate since it's also for my own benefit. Thank you .

This is clearly not true. Nurses who were educated in the US, for example, will be considered IENs for the purpose of educational assessment but they likely will not be required to undergo SEC because their education and clinical experience will be very similar to locally-educated nurses. Similarly, nurses from Australia and New Zealand who received generalist education will not typically require SEC. The purpose of SEC is to "fill in the blanks" when the candidate's education transcripts don't give enough information about the content and duration of their program to allow complete comparison to local programs. Therefore, IENs from certain countries will all need SEC because they were educated in the same place and their transcripts are all lacking that clarity. IENs from countries with a variety of educational standards will be evaluated against the established criteria and SEC will be required of those whose documentation indicates. Have you read the posts explaining how SEC came to be in the first place? Doing that would really help you understand it all. https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/faq-canada-substantially-387308.html

I've spent a lot of time researching and educating myself on all this information (after all, it has nothing to do with me at all) and creating stickies so that I wouldn't have to continually repeat myself but it seems that strategy doesn't work. Any ideas what I should do instead?

TazJ · Sep 13, 2011

I can completely understand the anxiety of preparing for the SEC, especially when you didn't think you would have to take it. I was in your situation just a few months ago and felt the same way about the possibility I would be purposely failed. However, I'm happy to say that I passed the CCA and didn't have to take any remedial classes or bridging program.

In regards to whether all IENs have to take the SEC (or CCA as it's known in some provinces), my answer is yes. Almost everyone, including nurses from the US have to take it. I know because even though the CRNM advisors had told me not to worry about SEC/CCA since I'm from the US, they changed their minds later on, even though I graduated with my BSN from a top nursing program in the US. From what I was told by the CRNM, the colleges apparently have "no way" of comparing nursing programs from other countries to those in Canada. Yes, even though you had to send your transcripts to be validated by IQAS and they came back as equivalent. Anyways, we just have to accept it for now and hopefully the colleges will improve their assessment process one day.

In regards to preparing, I studied for less than a month. You need enough time to comprehensively review material you may have forgotten (since you're not practicing) but not so much time that you lose focus and/or forget what you've been reviewing! Take a look at all the resources given to you by the college in your province (it should have been in the letter telling you to schedule the SEC).

Here's a rough suggestion of how to prepare:

1) Read up on the SEC on the college's website. Be familiar with the different ways you might be assessed: ex. multiple choice and short answer exams, practical OSCE, Triple Jump, etc.

2) Review your nursing material. I found it too difficult to go through all my nursing textbooks, so I used a comprehensive review guide to brush up on the major nursing material. Things to review: nursing process, meds, labs (make sure you have them in the same units we use in Canada NOT elsewhere), major diseases + nursing care for these clients, specifics for peds, OB, and mental health. Know what is normal for assessment and what an abnormal finding may indicate.

3) Take practice questions. I highly recommend the CNA's CRNE prep guide (4th & 5th ed) for practice on the multiple choice and short answer questions. It will REALLY help for the SEC, and makes it easier to study for CRNE later on!

4) Both the SEC and CRNE emphasize the importance of cultural competence and therapeutic communication. Know the basics and use the CRNE practice questions to practice.

5) Even though it's not mentioned, there will be Community and Public health nursing scattered through the exams. Know the basics of community-based nursing: primary care values, primary/secondary/tertiary prevention, etc.

6) There are practice cases for the Triple Jump and Clinical Judgement online - DO THEM and look at the answers to get a good idea of what they are looking for. You won't have the exact same scenarios in the real exam, but at least you will understand how they want you to think it through.

7)There are quite a few threads on here in regards to the SEC/CCA - I found it useful to go through the previous threads and find tips on preparing.

Lastly, take a deep breath. The nurses at the assessment centre (at least in Manitoba) are very nice and friendly. They may take a lot of notes, but don't let that freak you out: remember they have many, many IENs taking the SEC so the notes are for your benefit. I can personally tell you that the purpose of the SEC is NOT to fail you. They will NOT fail you for making a mistake - I know I made at least a few and still made it through.

Good Luck!

BlueBow · Sep 16, 2011

I can completely understand the anxiety of preparing for the SEC, especially when you didn't think you would have to take it. I was in your situation just a few months ago and felt the same way about the possibility I would be purposely failed. However, I'm happy to say that I passed the CCA and didn't have to take any remedial classes or bridging program.
In regards to whether all IENs have to take the SEC (or CCA as it's known in some provinces), my answer is yes. Almost everyone, including nurses from the US have to take it. I know because even though the CRNM advisors had told me not to worry about SEC/CCA since I'm from the US, they changed their minds later on, even though I graduated with my BSN from a top nursing program in the US. From what I was told by the CRNM, the colleges apparently have "no way" of comparing nursing programs from other countries to those in Canada. Yes, even though you had to send your transcripts to be validated by IQAS and they came back as equivalent. Anyways, we just have to accept it for now and hopefully the colleges will improve their assessment process one day.
In regards to preparing, I studied for less than a month. You need enough time to comprehensively review material you may have forgotten (since you're not practicing) but not so much time that you lose focus and/or forget what you've been reviewing! Take a look at all the resources given to you by the college in your province (it should have been in the letter telling you to schedule the SEC).
Here's a rough suggestion of how to prepare:
1) Read up on the SEC on the college's website. Be familiar with the different ways you might be assessed: ex. multiple choice and short answer exams, practical OSCE, Triple Jump, etc.
2) Review your nursing material. I found it too difficult to go through all my nursing textbooks, so I used a comprehensive review guide to brush up on the major nursing material. Things to review: nursing process, meds, labs (make sure you have them in the same units we use in Canada NOT elsewhere), major diseases + nursing care for these clients, specifics for peds, OB, and mental health. Know what is normal for assessment and what an abnormal finding may indicate.
3) Take practice questions. I highly recommend the CNA's CRNE prep guide (4th & 5th ed) for practice on the multiple choice and short answer questions. It will REALLY help for the SEC, and makes it easier to study for CRNE later on!
4) Both the SEC and CRNE emphasize the importance of cultural competence and therapeutic communication. Know the basics and use the CRNE practice questions to practice.
5) Even though it's not mentioned, there will be Community and Public health nursing scattered through the exams. Know the basics of community-based nursing: primary care values, primary/secondary/tertiary prevention, etc.
6) There are practice cases for the Triple Jump and Clinical Judgement online - DO THEM and look at the answers to get a good idea of what they are looking for. You won't have the exact same scenarios in the real exam, but at least you will understand how they want you to think it through.
7)There are quite a few threads on here in regards to the SEC/CCA - I found it useful to go through the previous threads and find tips on preparing.
Lastly, take a deep breath. The nurses at the assessment centre (at least in Manitoba) are very nice and friendly. They may take a lot of notes, but don't let that freak you out: remember they have many, many IENs taking the SEC so the notes are for your benefit. I can personally tell you that the purpose of the SEC is NOT to fail you. They will NOT fail you for making a mistake - I know I made at least a few and still made it through.
Good Luck!

What a great post! Thank you for the invaluable info.

an-nie · Oct 12, 2011

This is EXACTLY why I tell people NOT to come to Canada as a live-in caregiver. None of the time you put in doing that will count when it comes time to register as a nurse, or when employers are looking at your application. When you enter the country under the temporary foreign worker category and take work as a domestic, that is the only work you are permitted to do. Permanent residency takes years, and isn't guaranteed. Employers want someone who can hit the floor running and they, for the most part, want someone with experience, RECENT, relevant NURSING experience. So the years you've sacrificed by working as a caregiver have been completely wasted - you're no closer to your goal than you were when you got off the plane.

Then tell those Nurses how to come in Canada NOT under the Live in caregiver. When I was doing my SEC, It was a surprised that almost 75% of the students doing the bridging program are under the live-in caregiver and also I was told by the university and thank God that they are all so supportive at the university. Permanent residency is guaranteed only if you have obeyed the law under your work permit. I don't see any reason why when it is stated on your work permit THAT YOU CAN. That is why I am willing to do anything to work as a nurse even if they ask me to do a refresher course. Please also understand the situation in the Philippines about overcrowding of nurses so we have to think of ALL POSSIBLE WAYS to WORK AS A NURSE SOMEWHERE. I also don't understand what you're trying to tell me? ...that I should stop this nonsense process that i'm doing because I won't get a job afterwards? even if you take any bridging/ supplemental/ refresher course, it won't help it? no guarantee? ....It's Okay, at least I tried, other than not doing anything at all.

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Oct 12, 2011

Then tell those Nurses how to come in Canada NOT under the Live in caregiver.

If you take the time to look, you'll find that I have many, many posts to my credit telling IENs how to come to Canada, how to document their education and experience, how to succeed at the SEC and the CRNE and how to find work. However, most of my posts contain factual and accurate information because I take the time to do the necessary research. If the information in my posts isn't what you want to hear, that isn't my fault.

When I was doing my SEC, It was a surprised that almost 75% of the students doing the bridging program are under the live-in caregiver and also I was told by the university and thank God that they are all so supportive at the university. Permanent residency is guaranteed only if you have obeyed the law under your work permit. I don't see any reason why when it is stated on your work permit THAT YOU CAN. That is why I am willing to do anything to work as a nurse even if they ask me to do a refresher course.

Working as a live-in caregiver is NOT working as a nurse. Nurses in Canada are regulated professionals and live-in caregivers aren't. And of course permanent residency is only guaranteed if you've obeyed the law. Why should it be otherwise?

Please also understand the situation in the Philippines about overcrowding of nurses so we have to think of ALL POSSIBLE WAYS to WORK AS A NURSE SOMEWHERE. I also don't understand what you're trying to tell me? ...that I should stop this nonsense process that i'm doing because I won't get a job afterwards? even if you take any bridging/ supplemental/ refresher course, it won't help it? no guarantee? ....It's Okay, at least I tried, other than not doing anything at all.

What I don't understand is how and why the fact that the Philippines has created such an overabundance of nurses that their own country can't employ them should be blamed on Canada, the US or any other country. Of course locally-educated nurses should have first choice of available jobs and employers should only be hiring from offshore if there ARE no locally-educated nurses. Is it fair that Canadian nurses aren't able to find jobs in their own country either? What I'm trying to tell you and all the other IENs who are still under the belief that there is still a large market for IENs in Canadian hospitals and long-term care facilities is that those days are gone. CIC has placed a cap on the number of work permits and visas available for IENs and the huge vacancy rate for nurses seen in 2006-2007 does not exist. If you have chosen to take your chances and emigrate to Canada despite these circumstances, that is of course your choice. Best of luck to you. Who knows, you could be one of the lucky ones.

an-nie · Oct 12, 2011

In short, there is no more jobs for IEN nurses here in Canada and don't even bother to take the chances. It's just a waste of money and time. This is what you should tell straight. Because we would not understand if you help us with every bits of information about the process of being a nurse, succeeding the SEC, the CRNE, and find work when there is really none.

Of course locally-educated nurses should have first choice of available jobs and employers should only be hiring from offshore if there ARE no locally-educated nurses. Is it fair that Canadian nurses aren't able to find jobs in their own country either? What I'm trying to tell you and all the other IENs who are still under the belief that there is still a large market for IENs in Canadian hospitals and long-term care facilities is that those days are gone. CIC has placed a cap on the number of work permits and visas available for IENs and the huge vacancy rate for nurses seen in 2006-2007 does not exist. And also this.. It will be easier to understand and accept.

I don't understand too that they are still taking applications from other countries when they/no guarantee that they can't employ them. I don't know who's blaming who about the overabundance of nurses in the Philippines. Because I don't. I am just one of those nurses who strive their best to be a nurse in your country.

Just like you said, it is my choice and I will take it because I might be one of the lucky ones. Just like many others too.

Silverdragon102, BSN · Oct 12, 2011

Each provincial college of RN has no control over immigration and like other countries will accept applications from people that meet requirements regardless on status. The issue comes is demand and the cap was halved by immigration from last year for both RN and LPN and for RN the capped was reached within a couple of months. Canada like the US and UK and probably a few other countries we are not aware of are having issues with unemployment of many careers including nurses making it harder for other countries exporting nurses however as janfrn mentioned own citizens or PR should be looked after before bringing in International nurses.

Unfortunately we have seen posts in the past from Philippine nurses who state they are better nurses than the nurses trained in the country they are looking at moving to, state their training is better than the country they are moving to as well as seeing many threads of Philippine nurses struggling to find work in their own country due to the abundance of students qualifying. We then hear of issues arising when Philippine nurses either fail CRNE 3 times, or their training not actually meeting Canadian requirements and given the opportunity to take the LPN exam and then struggle clinically when out in the work environment. I have seen this happen in the UK when the hospital employed a couple of hundred Philippine nurses who struggled to provide the most basic of care because they felt they shouldn't have to do it. Most of them soon adapted and did well however a few struggled

I am not saying don't go for it what I am saying is don't blame the country because they place standards and requirements, if it is something you are determined to do then give it your best, meet all requirements and be prepared for delays for what ever reason. Where ever possible gain work experience as a nurse and gain experience as it will be an asset when trying to find a employer

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Oct 13, 2011

An-nie, how far back would you like me to go?? I and others have been posting here for well over a year that IENs would have a lot of trouble finding work. In reverse chronological order, and by no means a complete list:.

https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/do-i-need-601189.html#post5691627

There are many Canadian nurses who aren't finding jobs at all so the odds of getting a favourable LMO at all are very slim.

https://allnurses.com/staff-review-forum/nz-canada-whats-622355.html#post5680289

https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/immigrant-rpn-having-622041-post5677767.html#post5677767

We've been discussing the employment situation in Ontario for at least 18 months now and there's a lot of evidence that IENs would be far down on any employer's list.

https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/us-nurse-thinking-621791.html#post5674841

It's VERY hard to find work in Toronto, especially for new grads, but even nurses with years of experience looking for a change are finding they're pretty much stuck.

https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/questions-about-ien-564795-post5618723.html#post5618723

Nursing jobs are becoming quite scarce all across the country these days but especially so in Ontario. None of the provinces is recruiting from outside Canada and most available positions are being filled with local newly-graduated nurses. So looking to another province isn't a solution.

https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/immigration-612927-post5598729.html#post5598729

I'll reiterate what people have been saying repeatedly on this forum and the International one (where this is moving as soon as I'm finished): IENs are having a very hard time finding work in virtually ALL parts of Canada at the present time

https://allnurses.com/canadian-nurses/preferred-provinice-ien-492137.html

Right now there aren't many jobs for IENs in Canada right now, unless you speak fluent French and can work in Quebec.

https://allnurses.com/canadian-nurses/internationally-educated-nurses-323075.html

You should also assess your prospects of actually gaining employment in Canada. With the state of the global economy still so fragile, vacant positions will not likely be offered to anyone who does not have at least some experience.

***Addendum February 3, 2010:***

At this time most Canadian provinces are not hiring. NOT HIRING.

***Addendum June 29, 2010:***

The preceding addendum remains true today.

***Addendum March 2, 2011***

Nothing has changed in the employment picture. There are job postings in several provinces but experience in the subspecialty is essential.

https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/those-considering-canada-369077.html

FROM FEB 2009!!

As the financial crisis deepens in the US, Canada is also feeling the pain. It was thought that we'd feel less impact because of differences in our methods and systems, but the truth is that we aren't immune to it at all. There were more than 129,000 jobs lost in Canada in January alone. Most of them were in the manufacturing sector, but not all.

Most of the nursing job losses have been in Ontario, but that doesn't mean the rest of the country will be safe.

It is entirely possible that the recruitment of IENs will drop off sharply as the Canadian employment picture worsens. While Canada is not currently considering a moratorium on hiring nurses from abroad, it may reach that point. Please be aware and prepared for it should it come to that. Also consider the position of your spouse or other supporting person who will be job-seeking in Canada who may now have severely limited possibilities. Take nothing for granted. If you want it badly enough, you'll have to be willing to fight.

an-nie · Oct 13, 2011

Thanks for this Infos but that is not my issue.

Like I said MANY MANY TIMES THAT I AM WILLING, VERY MUCH WILLING TO DO ANYTHING WHATEVER THE COLLEGE REQUIRES ME TO UNDERGO TO BE A NURSE HERE and HAVE NOTHING AGAINST IT. DONE! PERIOD!

So, goodluck to me!