help i am torn between a job offer

KatieRN04 · Jun 12, 2008

Generlized life adive that could be applied to this situation:

Never settle for second best

bjw4141 · Jun 12, 2008

Here is something to consider:

If the place is going to require you to do more than a normal 40hr work week and a salary of 70,000 is probably going to feel more like 56,000.

A 70,000 nets you 33.65 hourly. If nothing is paid in overtime and lets say you get paid twice a week and you do about 10 hours of extra work in a given pay period. Your hourly rate just jumped in that extra time to 50.47.

During that pay period you just lost 500 bucks to your salary. In a years time that amounts to 13,000 of money lost to salary. Time is money, money is time. You just went from 70,000 to 56,000. Your extra time is not paid so that is what it would feel like. That is based on a 50hr work week. Now I understand we all need to start somewhere but I thing there needs to be some more incentitive especially if this doc works more than the norm of 40hrs. He may see it in his pay and time , but not you. :smokin:

santhony44, MSN, RN, NP · Jun 12, 2008

if your gut says no, don't take it. you'll regret it.

you said: i am pretty sure from the feeling i got after the interview and the initial comments i jotted down after the interview that this is not the right place for me

your gut is saying no pretty loudly.

johnson0424 · Jun 12, 2008

thank you so much for that. now i just have to call him and break the news. I knew that if i take the job that i would not be happy unless i was getting compensated for my time. after i did some calculating between the office and the n.h. it would be approx 52 hrs a week and i feel that only 40 is expected of me. if i want to do more than that than that is on my own accord.

johnson0424 · Jun 12, 2008

i know that i am good but i think as new grads we have such a complex that comes w/ that.

core0 · Jun 12, 2008

I received a less than par job offer(explained it on here a couple of weeks ago) and i had the interview on 5/21 and bad me has not called thedr. back because i am trying to decide what would make the job offer better such as increased salary to 75,000 from 70,000 and a day off during the week. I realize that all he can say is "no" but I hate rejection and i am not a negotiater. I feel kind of backed into a corner b/c this is the only job offer i have received and being in a rural county i am scared i am not going to receive another one so feel "pushed" into taking the job although i am pretty sure from the feeling i got after the interview and the initial comments i jotted down after the interview that this is not the right place for me but as a new grad np i am desperate for experience before it gets too far from my graduation and i have no experience -
Should i call the dr. back and try to negotiate what i want? This part. dr. is a "workhorse" and wants me to work 6 days a week b/t family practice and nursing home i was thinking about neg. mileage to the n.h. from the office as well.
Please let me know what you think. I have spoken w/ other np's and they stated that other things will come along-which they have but they are approx 50 miles from my home and w/ gas prices that is too much.
Please be brutally honest if i am being to picky or what- thanks,

There are a couple of issues you have to consider. One is that you are presumably making a transition from an hourly profession to a salaried profession. The average FP physician works more than 50 hours a week. An average salaried position in most places is going to be more than 40 hours.

Another issue you have to consider is why do you think that this is not the right place for you? You describe the physician as a workhorse. This is not necessarily a bad thing, especially in a new position. On the other hand like DaisyRN's experience make sure that workhorse is not shorthand for martyr. There are a lot of physicians (especially in solo practice) take great joy in working lots of inefficient hours and proclaiming their martyrdom. Not a good situation to be in. However, if it means this is a busy practice with a high volume then this might be a good place.

You mention the salary. Have you analyzed the market that you are in? An offer of $75k is around the average salary for rural NPs and is around the average for FP NPs. You see a lot of large salaries batted around here but these are generally in specialty practice and urban areas. Also how does this compare to local nursing wages? You have to consider that while initial salaries may be lower than you like, they do increase and rural practices are more likely to offer profit sharing and partnership depending on the state law. Also you have to consider that the first job rarely sets your overall compensation. You will have more bargaining power and job opportunities with 1-2 years of experience than you do now. You have also correctly identified that your skill set as a new grad is somewhat perishable.

I'm not saying to take the job. I think that you have already identified a number of unrealistic expectations of the practice (6 day work week, split responsibilities etc.). However, as a new grad, there should be a different set of analysis.

1. Lifestyle - what are your goals? How many hours are you willing to work? Consider not only patient care hours but admin hours and travel time. What are your expectations for family time considering call etc?

2. Work conditions. This includes not only how happy you are at work but also the work environment. You don't have to be best friends with your co-workers, but you don't want to be miserable. You don't want the physicians to be psychotic (again see DaisyRNs post). More importantly for a new grad are what are the practices expectations in terms of how many patients you have to see and what type of orientation are you going to get. Again for new grads, how good a resource are the physicians/other practitioners? How good is the environment for expanding your personal scope - ie does responsibility and ability to see patients increase as your ability increases.

3. Now pay. Is the money offered enough to make 1 and 2 worthwhile. The unspoken part of this is how much sacrifice you are willing to make to become a provider. As an RN there are a number of parts of the country where you are going to take a pay cut to be an NP especially if you look at the hours. Essentially you have more responsibility for less money. A lot of NPs make the decision to stay at/return to the bedside. Again not making any judgments here, thats just the way it is.

Good luck

David Carpenter, PA-C

MS, APRN, BC, FNP · Jun 13, 2008

I mention this only as a negotiating tip and to illustrate don't under estimate how much people love you.

There was a company that offered $45 an hour. I said fifty. They said okay, fifty. I reconsidered and thought, you know I just value my time too much to even mess with this job. After I was resolved not to take the job. I just told them that I really value my free time to much to give it up for $50 an hour and that I would do it for $75 an hour thinking that would be the end of that. They fired back an email and said "Okay 75 an hour sounds fine". My god! I thought, I should have asked for $100 an hour.

So now I'm working for $75 an hour (in a rural area). The thing I learned from this is that it really helps to job hunt when you don't really need or even want a job.

You're a new grad so take the job and get some experience. But realize he may love you more than he lets on and maybe renegotiate in 6 months to a year. All employers hate to change, especially if your a competent PCP. Who knows who they'll wind up with if you leave. Take the job and start looking for something better in a year or two when you don't really need the job.

grad*student · Jun 13, 2008

I think you should practice your negotiation skills w/ him. If he declines, nothing lost. The terms he's presented right now are not favorable. Make a case for what you want, and you will build your confidence for future job offers.

jillbug · Jun 13, 2008

Other offers will come along. I live in a small area. I just graduated and was afraid there would be no jobs. My first offer sounds like yours and I almost took it. I am glad the MD office is S..L..O..W to respond, because I got 3 more (and better) offers in the meantime. Otherwise I would have accepted and been miserable (lots of hours)

I am not a negotiater either, but I have been forcing myself and have gotten better deals. I believe the employer expects you to negotiate.

allnurses Guide · Jun 14, 2008

I mention this only as a negotiating tip and to illustrate don't under estimate how much people love you.
There was a company that offered $45 an hour. I said fifty. They said okay, fifty. I reconsidered and thought, you know I just value my time too much to even mess with this job. After I was resolved not to take the job. I just told them that I really value my free time to much to give it up for $50 an hour and that I would do it for $75 an hour thinking that would be the end of that. They fired back an email and said "Okay 75 an hour sounds fine". My god! I thought, I should have asked for $100 an hour.
So now I'm working for $75 an hour (in a rural area). The thing I learned from this is that it really helps to job hunt when you don't really need or even want a job.
You're a new grad so take the job and get some experience. But realize he may love you more than he lets on and maybe renegotiate in 6 months to a year. All employers hate to change, especially if your a competent PCP. Who knows who they'll wind up with if you leave. Take the job and start looking for something better in a year or two when you don't really need the job.

It is dangerous to think that "needs staff" equals "how much they love you"...!! One thing I've learned in my time is that no job is worth being unhappy - and getting emotions involved is a fast track to that. It's a job - if you need experience and can negotiate something that works for you, take it and look for something else. If you have financial wiggle room, wait it out for a different offer. It seems silly to turn down a job offer without even giving the prospective employer a chance to meet your terms.