HELP DNP vs FNP

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · May 24, 2015

It has nothing to do with people disrespecting doctoral level degrees. It's that someone in a clinical setting besides an MD is being called doctor. No one cares about a PhD in English in a hospital. The same can be said of a DNP.

As long as a nurse practitioner or an audiologist or a physical therapist (all possibly doctorally prepared) isn't representing him/herself as a physician, who cares?

It can be a bit cumbersome to explain the difference to a patient, yes, but there is a difference between a physician and a doctorally prepared NP. As long as a NP isn't pretending to be a physician - and the title Dr. doesn't make it that case that she is - it's not a big deal IMO.

Don't get me wrong. All the DNPs I know at the hospital go by their first names there; they only go by title when they put on their professor hats. To be fair, we call some of the physicians by their first names too. That's probably what I'll do also. I'm certainly not so married to the title that I'll need to use it all the time, but to downplay it disrespects the hard work that people put into earning it.

Anonymous1257 · May 24, 2015

but to downplay it disrespects the hard work that people put into earning it.

I'm not downplaying or disrespecting anything. Use the title all you want, but expect the aforementioned eyerolling and some professional backlash if you use it in a clinical environment.

IsabelK · May 24, 2015

I'm not downplaying or disrespecting anything. Use the title all you want, but expect the aforementioned eyerolling and some professional backlash if you use it in a clinical environment.

Which is precisely the reason we should use it: We've earned it and eventually it will become the norm. People can roll their eyes or say that it's uncalled for, but the truth is that doctorally prepared nurses should be standing up and saying, "I earned it and I am Dr. Nurse." With only 1% of RNs educated at the doctorate level, it's part of the leadership taught and expected in doctorate programs to emulate the role--including the use of the title.

Anonymous1257 · May 24, 2015

Our title is nurse practioner. dnp programs are horribly disparate at the moment and with more and more for-profit schools diluting the profession and the DNP even further, it's going to be a very very long time before being Dr. Nurse means anything to anyone. Shoving it in people's faces won't accomplish anything but to earn resentment for our profession.

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · May 24, 2015

Our title is nurse practioner. DNP programs are horribly disparate at the moment and with more and more for-profit schools diluting the profession and the DNP even further, it's going to be a very very long time before being Dr. Nurse means anything to anyone. Shoving it in people's faces won't accomplish anything but to earn resentment for our profession.

Using the title when and where appropriate isn't shoving it in anyone's face. I'm a big fan of the old saw about when you're really good, you don't have to brag about it. All the same, it is a title and we will have earned it. That for-profit schools have diluted the degree (and I agree with you that they have) makes the case for shutting those places down, not for rolling eyes at people who use a title they've rightfully earned. The more I watch and listen to the wider debate (not just here), the whole thing looks like a territorial contest with the expectation that nurses will eventually sit down and shut up.

Anonymous1257 · May 24, 2015

I sincerely hope we never sit down nor shut up! I think eventually, if nursing can ever organize and standardize itself, that the DNP will be immensely important for us. I completely agree that we need to stop this incredible spread of substandard educational programs, they have the potential to cause permanent harm to our professional reputation and our scope of practice. It's definitely a territorial contest, as I've said before we are directly competing with MDs for their business and we're doing it for cheaper and producing the same results.

Jules A, MSN · May 24, 2015

That for-profit schools have diluted the degree (and I agree with you that they have) makes the case for shutting those places down, not for rolling eyes at people who use a title they've rightfully earned. The more I watch and listen to the wider debate (not just here), the whole thing looks like a territorial contest with the expectation that nurses will eventually sit down and shut up.

My hope would be they instead ensure the Doctorate designation is worth something valuable on a clinical level and frankly at this point in time I do not believe they do. Its not about nurses sitting down and shutting up as much as actually having something worthwhile to offer if we want to be called Dr. because especially in medicine it is confusing and I don't think appropriate based on what a DNP actually entails, or rather doesn't.

The continued argument about us using what we have "earned" is one of the reason so many of us look like dopes with all the initials behind our names that often are redundant and in many cases nurses don't even know what all that stuff means.

IsabelK · May 24, 2015

Our title is nurse practioner. DNP programs are horribly disparate at the moment and with more and more for-profit schools diluting the profession and the DNP even further, it's going to be a very very long time before being Dr. Nurse means anything to anyone. Shoving it in people's faces won't accomplish anything but to earn resentment for our profession.

I went to a private school but look at the private medical schools--can't tell me they aren't for profit such as Yale or Harvard. Private/for-profit versus state is meaningless; it's the academic rigorousness of the program which is important. My DNP program was an extremely rigorous program and it required a lot more time day-to-day than the MSN/ANP program I attended which was a state school and was ranked very highly. The DNP program I was in made it quite clear what the expectations for passing were and only half of the people I started with made it through. I am proud of that accomplishment and I do have "Doctor of Nursing Practice" on my lab coat. It's a conversation starter, it gives me a chance to educate other nurses and my patients and their families about licensing versus academic preparation. I have a clinical doctorate, not a research doctorate and everything I did in school enhances my ability to provide care as an NP. I am not going to shut up and I it is wholly inappropriate to imply that I am using the title "Dr." as a way to shove it in someone's face.

Jules A, MSN · May 24, 2015

I have a clinical doctorate, not a research doctorate and everything I did in school enhances my ability to provide care as an NP.

What kind of a DNP program is a clinical doctorate? There was another thread recently inquiring about the availability of a program that would enhance clinical skills above the masters level education rather than just adding more nursing research fluff and if I understood it correctly the consensus was there is no such animal right now.

Anonymous1257 · May 25, 2015

My hope would be they instead ensure the Doctorate designation is worth something valuable on a clinical level and frankly at this point in time I do not believe they do. Its not about nurses sitting down and shutting up as much as actually having something worthwhile to offer if we want to be called Dr. because especially in medicine it is confusing and I don't think appropriate based on what a DNP actually entails, or rather doesn't.

I agree. The DNP certainly has the potential to further the field of nursing but it's disorganized and these for-profit dnp programs that are popping up like weeds are diluting it from what it should be.

And for the record I said we should not sit down and shut up, I think that might've been misread by some.

IsabelK I'm sure we're all very proud of you for working hard and earning your doctorate. I certainly didn't imply anything about you, I don't even know you. If the shoe doesn't fit then don't wear it.

IsabelK · May 25, 2015

The DNP is the clinical doctorate. It is designed to teach nurses to take research generated by PhD nurses (and the still existing DNS nurses out there) and figure out how to apply it. Yes, I did a lot of research, but my capstone did not generate new research. It took existing research that showed there was a problem in a specific area and figured out how to apply that research to solving the problem in the county in which I live. Others in my class did things like figure out how to integrate mental health into a primary care clinic, how to teach RN students how to help vets with PTSD, how to integrate discussion of advance directives in clinical practice, how to teach nurses and others in the health care professions about incivility and the impact on patient outcomes, and so on. It's not about "well, we're going to teach you to read an EKG" unless it's a BSN - DNP program with an NP licensure as part of the program. The DNP is very much a clinical program.

Jules A, MSN · May 25, 2015

It's not about "well, we're going to teach you to read an EKG" unless it's a BSN - DNP program with an NP licensure as part of the program. The DNP is very much a clinical program.

Speaking only for myself I was hoping for a DNP program with an actual clinical focus, more clinical hours and in particular more in-depth pharmacology as I felt our mere 1 or 2 courses woefully inadequate in preparation for competent prescribing especially compared to PAs or MDs.