Help Act On Immigration Reform!, Read and help resolve retrogression

suzanne4, RN · Apr 8, 2007

First, take the time to do some reading. H1-B visas do not work for nurses and have not been available in the hospital setting for more than three years. This will not help one thing at all.

H1-Bs are horrible for nurses. The only ones that like them are the attorneys because they will still charge the nurse for doing the paperwork, knowing that they will not get approved.

H1-B visa petition acceptance was just opened on April 2 last week, and there were 150,000 petitions received that one day. And only 65,000 slots.

So not even a good idea to even think that.

And if you are not a US citizen, you do not have any say in this. You do not have a senator, or representative. Just be using an address in the US does not give you a voice in this.

suzanne4, RN · Apr 8, 2007

And H1-B requires specialty experience in an area. New grad, no experience is not going to happen in the US. And you will not find one hospital in the US that will hire with the H1-B. they hate them.

Have not seen one nurse get one in three years that is working in the hospital setting as a staff nurse, and that is who is going to petition you. They are not doing it, takes a full time staff of three just to handle the paperwork.

Hospitals will petition for the green card, they will not sponsor for the H1-B.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Apr 8, 2007

And if you are not a US citizen, you do not have any say in this. You do not have a senator, or representative. Just be using an address in the US does not give you a voice in this.

I agree with this.

Also, while I completely understand your FRUSTRATION, I believe 'indignation' is out of place. You are simply not entitled to come here, at all. Being offered an opportunity to come, in due time, is a GIFT. It is a privilege, not a right.

It's simply rude to be 'indignant' at the prospect of not getting a gift to your exact specifications.

I would like to see as many of you get a chance at the American dream as possible. Indeed, I hope everyone of you that aspires to that hope someday finds themselves enjoying what is wonderful about America.

But, put it in perspective. You are owed nothing. Therefore, you have NOTHING to be indignant about.

~faith,

Timothy.

4floridabound · Apr 8, 2007

"But, put it in perspective. You are owed nothing. Therefore, you have NOTHING to be indignant about. "

I dont think the above statement is quite right.

These nurses have been offered jobs by US hospitals.They did not impose themselves to be hired.A lot of them have already complied with the requirements and have even spent a lot of money,time and hardwork to comply and are ready for deployment.They would not be in this situation if there were no job offers.

I agree with you that they have no rights,voice or any power under the US government.That is precisely why they are doing this.Eventhough their act will be meaningless, they cannot stand and just watch doing nothing especially if its their family's future at stake.Thinking and hoping against hope that maybe,maybe and maybe a small voice that has no right to be listened to can make a difference.

ginger58, ASN, RN · Apr 9, 2007

I agree with this.
Also, while I completely understand your FRUSTRATION, I believe 'indignation' is out of place. You are simply not entitled to come here, at all. Being offered an opportunity to come, in due time, is a GIFT. It is a privilege, not a right.
~faith,
Timothy.

Timothy I have to agree with you. A privilege, not a right.

Forgive me but when I read these posts from the Phillipines the nurses/student nurses sound very demanding of coming here, being sponsored, wanting hospitals to pay their way, wanting to do things illegally, wanting to know where they can get the most money. I have lost respect for some of these folks.

As the next post under yours states that some of these nurses have been hired, but it doesn't always sound like it was in the most honest way or in a way beneficial to them. There are many posts here by experts that tell them not to use these agencies.

I'm sorry that your wages are so low at home but this country doesn't owe you a living.

suzanne4, RN · Apr 9, 2007

CIR also has nothing to do with the H1-B visa, it deals with green cards only.

Immigration issues are not specific to the US, look at what is going on in the UK right now. There are agencies that are trying to hire you to work in the UK, but they fail to tell you that there is a freeze on all hires there if you do not have specialty experience that they need, and are not from the European Union. And those agencies are charging a placement fee for something that is not going to happen.

These things do happen all over, and will continue to do so. There have been times in the US when they were not hiring foreign nurses in abundance. And there are times when many come over.

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But the bigger issue is how many of you actually would go into nursing if you were going to be working in PI? And had to stay there? Many have gone into nursing as a fast way to work in the US, and you are going to find that the work is also much different in the US from your country. This does not require that the US open more spots for those of you that wish to come, they do things based on their needs, not yours.

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And we do have other issues going on here right now, such as a war that is in its fourth year oversea, illegal immigration, etc. These are things that need to be dealt with first. Creating visas for nurses does not solve any staffing issues, there is still a detailed orientation to go thru before you are adding into the staffing grid when you begin work. And there are those that will never last thru orientation, for whatever reason.

Hathaway · Apr 9, 2007

Whenever i read posts like these, especially those from RN's in the Phils, I can't help feeling a twinge of sadness. Sad because these US nurses are right. Phil. RN's have NO RIGHT to be indignant. NO RIGHT to expect anything except that which the US deems to be its "leftovers from the table". (Ever wonder why USCIS requires any US job offered to aliens to undergo a time period wherein it is offered first to US citizens? And only after this time period will they certify that there indeed exists a need for this particular position that NO AMERICAN (on not enough of them at least) IS WILLING TO TAKE ON? And these Phil RN's are even expected to regard these scraps as "gifts".

Phil. RN's have NO RIGHT to have a say about immigration issues. Issues that will affect them squarely head-on for sure, but this in and of itself does not entitle one to have a say about what will be done with his own person in the US legal immigration system. (Ironic isnt it?) US interests must come first. And this system applies to all aliens regardless of who they are, lest Phil. RN's think they are being singled out.

Like I said, I am saddened at how Phil. RN's are reduced to giving up so much of their rights, their dignity, their pride. It wasn't their fault that they lived in an economy wherein the practice of their profession would be insufficient for subsistence. But it isn't the US's fault either. I can't help feeling pity for the Phil. RN willing to leave friends, family, home and all he ever knew in his life, sacrificing so much just to try to carve a more decent way of life for his loved ones. And it stings whenever thinly veiled insinuations are made that these people go over to the US to "take something away" from the US. I am of the persuasion that majority have gone over and have become assets rather than liablities to the US economy.

Hathaway

suzanne4, RN · Apr 9, 2007

I agree with you in the above.

But the bigger issue is that there are nurses that believe that because they have earned the BSN degree, that it is their right to be able to work in the US. That it where the issue comes up. It is a privilege to be able to work in the US, and the person needs to meet the US requirements.

But do to the fact of so many trying to take shortcuts now, and even resort to working illegally, it is making it harder for all to get visas to even travel to the US from PI. There are no shortcuts to immigration and doing things the legal way.

Currently, there are no visas available. And that means that there is no way to come to the US on a tourist visa and be able to work. But there are those that continue to do so. And then plead that they did not know. Sorry, but if they made it thru a four year university degree, they should know how to read.

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And the Philippines needs to fix their training of nurses. It is not the same as it was when I went to school. 15 students plus per patient and there are no skills learned. Put that together with behavior of some, and that starts the issue of it getting harder to find a position in a hospital in the US.

Unfortunately, this has become very well-known in the US, even in Filipino neighborhoods. It is discussed all of the time. Not something that is not discussed.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Apr 9, 2007

Whenever i read posts like these, especially those from RN's in the Phils, I can't help feeling a twinge of sadness. Sad because these US nurses are right. Phil. RN's have NO RIGHT to be indignant. NO RIGHT to expect anything except that which the US deems to be its "leftovers from the table". (Ever wonder why USCIS requires any US job offered to aliens to undergo a time period wherein it is offered first to US citizens? And only after this time period will they certify that there indeed exists a need for this particular position that NO AMERICAN (on not enough of them at least) IS WILLING TO TAKE ON? And these Phil RN's are even expected to regard these scraps as "gifts".
Phil. RN's have NO RIGHT to have a say about immigration issues. Issues that will affect them squarely head-on for sure, but this in and of itself does not entitle one to have a say about what will be done with his own person in the US legal immigration system. (Ironic isnt it?) US interests must come first. And this system applies to all aliens regardless of who they are, lest Phil. RN's think they are being singled out.
Like I said, I am saddened at how Phil. RN's are reduced to giving up so much of their rights, their dignity, their pride. It wasn't their fault that they lived in an economy wherein the practice of their profession would be insufficient for subsistence. But it isn't the US's fault either. I can't help feeling pity for the Phil. RN willing to leave friends, family, home and all he ever knew in his life, sacrificing so much just to try to carve a more decent way of life for his loved ones. And it stings whenever thinly veiled insinuations are made that these people go over to the US to "take something away" from the US. I am of the persuasion that majority have gone over and have become assets rather than liablities to the US economy.
Hathaway

You make it sound like America is being mean to, or taking advantage of, foreign nurses, just giving them 'scraps from the table'. However, what exactly should the purpose of importing foreign labor be? Should we be trying to fill needs, or should we use our own laws to displace our own workers?

What other nation would import foreign workers at the expense of their own?

If you wish to come here, shouldn't that be subject to our need for you to be here? I know that many of you want to come here, for all the benefits that coming here would provide. However, why should that desire take priority over our needs? Your needs, or desires, to come here are plain. Shouldn't that be a mutually beneficial relationship?

I fully believe that most foreign nurses are wonderful assets, and should be welcomed, as the need arises.

I bristle at the idea that we somehow inherently 'owe' foreign nurses anything. It IS a gift to allow you to come. It IS a privilege. The advantages to you far outweigh the advantages to us for you coming here. Each of you that comes get the FULL measure of benefit from being here, while the advantage to us for you being here is spread over the entire labor pool.

There is a similar situation here, with our nursing schools being full. Look at a few of the threads on this site about pre-nursing majors that complain about how unfair it is that THEY didn't get in, when others did! Since when are nursing students 'owed' a spot in school? The ability to attend such schools is a privilege, to be earned, yes. Also, it is a privilege to be appreciated.

If you do not like the nature of the gift, you have other options. IF you think you are being taken advantage of, then pursue your other options. However, I think that reality tells a different story. There is a REASON so many of you try so hard to come here. The advantages of being here potentially far outweigh most of your other options.

So, there is an issue of perspective. I can understand being frustrated. I don't understand this indignant attitude that you are being denied your rights, or that we are taking advantage of you. Nothing could be further from the truth! In truth, you have other options. As long as you look to America for your options, and opportunity, then the system as it is currently in play is a situation that each of you have chosen to embrace, for better or worse.

I don't pity PI nurses, at all. I fell badly that the current situation has created a significant, temporary roadblock. However, I am also a bit eager at the prospect of the potential opportunities that are before you to come here, as well.

To me, I think this is a wonderful land of opportunity, and, as we may, it is an experience that could and should be shared. I see immigration of nurses as an opportunity to share our bounty when to do so is mutually beneficial. I see it as a wonderful, potential GIFT.

How could you not see it that way?

~faith,

Timothy.

4floridabound · Apr 10, 2007

Yes,they have ABSOLUTELY no right under the US government.I am just giving the reason why they are doing so.Frustration and desperation are the better words.I dont think the poster means to say that the US government owes them.Maybe he/she refers to the ones who hired her.

I agree with what you are all saying that to work in the US as a nurse, one must do it in the honest and legal way.One must be well enough qualified to meet the standards of your country.Yes, there are many who are not qualified but still try to do so.Yes, there is a lot who do it illegally.

That is why there is the CGFNS,NCLEX,IELTS,TOEFL,etc?Is it not enough for a nurse to pass these examinations to be qualified?These are standards set by your government, not by us.Is it not also the reason why the USCIS and the Embassy consuls are very strict on their scrutiny of applicants?

And please try to understand that majority of these nurses are responding to legitimate job offers by Hospital HRMs and representatives,they come here to the Philippines and recruit.If found qualified, the nurses are hired.Why do they come and recruit here?

I am speaking for those who are already in the immigration process and already hired or promised jobs by US Hospitals and Nursing/Healthcare Institutions.

They do need your pity but most of all your help on their situation.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Apr 10, 2007

Why do they come and recruit here?

Facilities that work to promote nursing practice within their facility, support area nursing education programs and have good employee relationships usually have no need for foreign recruitment, with exception of remote locations.

As posted by so many on this board, employers most often recruiting overseas are looking for easy fix, have large patient:nurse ratios, will promise sun, moon and stars then not uphold their bargain once staff arrive in US.

We have no problems with nurses desire to immigrate to US. Conditions need to be fixed by employers here first. Those in Califonia staffed by proper ratios have had much easier time staffing facilitiy that oversease recuitment for much of California in safe well run locations has dried up.

However to see the hundreds of pre-nursing students being turned away from programs due to lack of educators, clinical sites or resources and see employers not addressing issues already in US, is crux of the issue.