Held Down and Forced to Take The FLu Shot

[Nurse_FF_EMT]

Allright guys, here is my problem:

My mom works as a CNA?CMA in a nursing home. The nursing home is forcing people to take flu shots this year. My mom has never taken a flu shot, she is just a strong believer in not taking it. She knows that I think this is a stupid attidute, but I also respect her right to say no to the shot.

After about a month of trying to bully people into taking thier flu shots with saying that people won't get their pay check, etc. After a couple of calls to the labor board that got fixed pretty fast.

So here is their new tactict: Call people into their office, physically hold them down, and give them the shot.

Of course my mom is terrified. My advice to her was this: As soon as one of the administrators touches her to try to hold her down I told her to call 911. I told her to be sure to let them know that if they try to physically force her to take the flu shot. If they as much as touch her to try to hold her down to take that damn thing she will call 911 and press assault and battery charges against them. I told her to let them know that they have 3 options:

A: Leave me alone, I'll sign a paper that you offered it and I declined.

B: Fire me and we will take the legal route for wrongfull termination.

C: Touch me, give me the shot and I will call 911 and press charges.

So fire away and give me your opinion. What can she do?

[FranEMTnurse, CNA, LPN, EMT-I]

First let me say that if anyone ever held me down and gave me a shot their head would be spinning from the speed at which I would file assault charges. What they are doing is wrong, illegal and reprehensible. Whoever came up with that idea should be fired on the spot.

However, as a nurse who has more years in the profession that I'd like to admit publicly, and who understands the impact the flu can have on older patients or patients who are disabled ,I would really have to think hard about whether I would be doing the best thing for my patients to refuse the shot and possibly be the person that could have contributed to an unnecessary complication for one of my patients. We all take a variety of precautions to ensure that our patients receive safe care. PPDs, staph screening, and immunizations are just part of the job. Without them you don't work on the unit. Who wants to come in for care and then end up with a staph infection? Who, out of our community of nurses, would care to put a patient in danger? I think we are agree that what they are doing is so wrong that it defies explanation but what is the right thing for us to do to protect our patients?

My parents are in their 80s and live with me. Each year I get the shot, my partner gets it, and my parents get it. If my partner or I got the flu we would shrug it of after a couple of miserable days but not so for my parents. I travel a lot so the chance that I will pick it up and bring it home is multiplied.

In a relatively small community, such as a nursing home, the chances that something like this could take hold and cause catastrophic consequences is something that executive management must consider. They could be held liable in a wrongful death lawsuit if a family were able to point out that the nurses, aids or therapists were not properly immunized to protect the patients.

It is your decision to take shot or not but it is also your responsibility to make sure the patient is safe and well cared for while in your care. I would expect that a nurse working in the OR, ER CCU ICU or any of the step-down units (or basically anywhere in the hospital) wouldn't come into work high or inebriated knowing that they could possible make a big mistake and cause harm to a patient. We all must be licensed to make sure we have basic proficiencies to provide safe care to patients. How is this different?

You can refuse a PPD, a staph screening or even immunizations. But if that is part of the job -- then your choice may mean that you find other employment. I respect their right to refuse. But I also think, that if you refuse, that you need to find another job that doesn't require that you compromise your values. Your rights are not any more important, or less important than those of the patient.

Forcing people to take shots and holding them down is the wrong way to go, but the core issue for me is whether taking the shot will allow me to provide a safer environment for my patients.

I worked as a nurse in the military and was posted to a lot of duty stations that required that have immunizations against the local bugs. I didn't really want them but I didn't have a choice. In the military you don't get to pick what you want to do. If it was that way I wouldn't have picked some of the duty stations I got. When I complained about getting a small pox immunization, again, the MD running the clinic asked me what good I would be to patients if I was sick or before I knew I was sick was passing it around to my patients. He made a good point but I still didn't like the immunizations.

To me the question is what I can do to make sure I can do the best job possible for my patient. That would be first in my mind, but if I was ever forced into doing something that I did not want to do and it was done to me without my consent then you'd want to move out of the way 'cause what would happen would not be pretty.

T

Very wise post. I would do the same. Back in the very early 60s when I worked as a nurses aide, we had a horrific epidemic on the second floor of our LTC facility. All the staff who worked on that floor was assigned there, and if one of them got the flu, another would fill in for her. I filled in for one who came to work with a temp of 102 F

A woman in her nineties got double pneumonia and died during that epidemic, and I shall never forget that period. We saved all but two when the census on that floor was 32. So that was good work by us considering the time and the type of flu. I believe it was when the Swine Flu was epidemic then. I did get the flu shot.

[Agnus]

It is amazing the number of people giving knee jerk responses, even after we still have not received final confirmation of what really did happen.

Have you forgotten the OP was not there, Neither was her mother who was passing this on to the OP. Consequently neither could know what when on behind closed doors. From her last post it is clear that the OP's mother was not held down when it came her turn. Yet, I am still reading hystrionics here. Amazing!

[vernonleon]

Not that it matters, but in CA RNs can administer vaccines without physician oversight. At any rate, I honestly have trouble believing this. If it's true, I'd send your mom in with a hidden camera & start a big ol' lawsuit. No need to hold a job if you're being treated as bad as this sounds.

[somebody]

I have not read all of this thread so forgive me if this is redundant. I have found clear evidence that vaccines are dangerous, as they actually cause disease, not prevent it: i.e. gulf war syndrome. In particular the bird flu like HIV was created by the CDC to wipe out as many people as possible.

[UM Review RN, ASN, RN]

I have not read all of this thread so forgive me if this is redundant. I have found clear evidence that vaccines are dangerous, as they actually cause disease, not prevent it: i.e. gulf war syndrome. In particular the bird flu like HIV was created by the CDC to wipe out as many people as possible.

Hon, you're giving the government way too much credit on that one.

When they can actually figure out a way to build an accurate voting machine, then maybe I'll believe they can build a deadly virus.

[Agnus]

I have not read all of this thread so forgive me if this is redundant. I have found clear evidence that vaccines are dangerous, as they actually cause disease, not prevent it: i.e. gulf war syndrome. In particular the bird flu like HIV was created by the CDC to wipe out as many people as possible.

Seri,

You might as well ban me for life from this site now.

[elizabells, BSN, RN]

Seri,

You might as well ban me for life from this site now.

Me too. To quote a catchphrase from another favorite message board of mine: "Don't get up, I'll ban myself..."

[FireStarterRN, BSN, RN]

I don't get what banning has to do with this long and redundant thread.

[CritterLover, BSN, RN]

i don't get what banning has to do with this long and redundant thread.

i think she's referring to what she's trying not to say regarding the post she quoted.

[FireStarterRN, BSN, RN]

i think she's referring to what she's trying not to say regarding the post she quoted.

because somebody posted a preposterous statement?

[somebody]

The more I think about this, the more I believe that this whole story has got to be exaggerated or contrived... I just can't believe that any facility would actually PIN SOMEONE INTO A CHAIR and inject them with a vaccine. I'm just... I don't know... my brain just refuses to accept this.

Surely our country's citizens (i.e. the employees at that facility) know that this is illegal? Surely??

Someone tell me this is some sort of hoax or joke. :uhoh21:

I know how you feel. It has taken me years to be able to accept that our country is very rapidly becoming a fascist state. It is happening in ALL areas. Before the next election another "event" will happen to justify marshal law and attacking Iran. There are right now 600 FEMA concentration camps ready and waiting in every major city in the U.S. Google it for yourself. This is the tip of the iceberg. For all who will angrily deny this, maybe you will believe when you are being taken away on a train.

[elizabells, BSN, RN]

I don't get what banning has to do with this long and redundant thread.

It's a way of saying "if I make an actual, substantive reply to this post, it will be such that I end up getting banned, so I won't." Probably unnecessary, yes, but it's not like this thread can get any more (as you pointed out) long and redundant.