Health Care is a right

Onekidneynurse · Nov 5, 2009

So? I never said people with insurance will never die. You seem very delusional because no where in my posts have I indicated anything close. I just stated that based on current research, your chances of dying because you do not have insurance is increased. You have yet to dispute that. All you did was give some smart ___ answer irrelevant to what I stated earlier. I would definitely question your care not to mention your morals to name a few.
Government run education is far superior to no education at all. The US still has some of the best public universities in the world and is still a country with great creativity and innovation.
Yep it flew by you, I guess it is selective reading on your part. I was never commenting on the quality of government run education, that is another issue. But we have decided as a society that education should be provided to all children regardless of income status, and hopefully someday we as a society will decide to provide health care just the same.
The private industry sure has done a poor job of providing care to everyone because they are profit driven. There is no such thing as a "free market" when it comes to health care and your own personal health.

I've always figured I'd rather go without that endure poor quality. People don't need the government to educate their children. Look at the rise of online learning. At some point their will be no brick and mortar institutions.

If we are gonna have healthcare shouldn't it be quality? Or is it enough to just have quanitity?

We do provide healthcare in this country already. People have to get off their duffs and go after it. Should we go door to door and offer it? Many in this country qualify for government aid now and they don't sign up for it.

Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy

GCTMT · Nov 5, 2009

Would you go to either country and get a blood transfusion?

Apparently you didn't notice that the person you are responding to is in fact, a nurse from the UK.

SilentMind · Nov 5, 2009

So? I never said people with insurance will never die......There is no such thing as a "free market" when it comes to health care and your own personal health.

So, Should I take your lack of reply as freedom to assume you don't bother volunteering at free clinics at all?

GCTMT · Nov 5, 2009

Most of us were young once. I bet most of us faced these same issues. We worked two jobs. We didn't buy much bling. We ate mac and cheese. Some of us lived with our parents or took in boarders. What has changed since we were young?

I think it's a mistake to generalize all youthful experiences as our own, like you just did. It's easy to do. I'm often guilty of saying, "yeah I know what that's like", so on and so forth. But the fact is until we walk a day in another persons shoes, we don't know what it's like.

Can you give me a specific of someone dying on an American street SOLELY because they couldn't get health care. Maybe they were dying on a cold December day without adequate housing or food. But I guess those aren't rights. When will they be rights?

I think HerringRN covered that in post number 327 of this thread, people are dying because of our health insurance system.

Food and housing are rights, but as we've seen, just because something is a right doesn't mean that everyone will get it. We (indiividual Americans, governing bodies ((like the UN and every other industrialized nations government)) can call something a "right", but until it is enforced with action it's pretty meaningless. I suppose on the other hand, it starts with the word and the will.

GCTMT · Nov 5, 2009

Everyone does have access to quality health care unless you are a veteran or member of a recognized tribe and then you get crappy government run health care. Show me a legitimate study that says 45,000 people a year die due to lack of health insurance. NEWSFLASH ****Everyone with health insurance will eventually die. How much are you paying in taxes? How much additional each month are you giving to the federal government out of your own pocket to pay for someone elses health care? Do you knock on your neighbor's door and ask if they need money for health care? I can't believe someone can call themselves a nurse and not being more forthcoming with their own paychecks and providing for others. Only in America

Yes, everyone dies. A legitimate study has been offered.

But, the question isn't, "does everyone die"? The question is, would (a person) have died if they had quality health insurance? Or more bluntly, would, (they) have died if they were able to pay for their treatment?

There is evidence that suggests, if you do not have health insurance (aren't able to pay) in the United States, your care will be compromised and because of that, you could die.

You do make a good point about Indian Health Services. I would argue that the care given to Indians has less to do with government intervention and more to do with the fact that the patients are... Indians. We have been eradicating Native Americans since we stepped foot on these shores, it's no surprise their well-being isn't top-priority.

SilentMind · Nov 5, 2009

Yes, everyone dies. A legitimate study has been offered.
But, the question isn't, "does everyone die"? The question is, would (a person) have died if they had quality health insurance? Or more bluntly, would, (they) have died if they were able to pay for their treatment?
There is evidence that suggests, if you do not have health insurance (aren't able to pay) in the United States, your care will be compromised and because of that, you could die.
You do make a good point about Indian Health Services. I would argue that the care given to Indians has less to do with government intervention and more to do with the fact that the patients are... Indians. We have been eradicating Native Americans since we stepped foot on these shores, it's no surprise their well-being isn't top-priority.

Finally, we get to the root of the problem. Indians/blacks/jews/hispanics/asians recieve inferior care because of our relations with them in history. Conspiracy theorists unite!

GCTMT · Nov 5, 2009

Rights are always an interesting concept. If I may make draw a somewhat juvenile reference....it's always reminded me of that episode of futurama. Where theres a huge ball of trash on course to impact the earth, and the president or the mayor or whoever....brings farnsworth in and asks for his help. The conversation goes something like this
President: "Farnsworth, we need your help!"
Farns: "Hrm, I can help. But it'll cost you."
President: "Name your price"
Farns: "I'll need a large grant"
President: "Done"
Farns: "I'll need a team of research scientists"
President: "Done"
Farns: "And lastly, I'll need tenure"
President: "Done, now what are you going to do about the huge ball of trash?"
Farns: "Who cares, I've got tenure."
Once you make all the basic necessities of life entitlements, theres really no reason for anyone to do anything. I mean I can honestly say that if I didn't have to worry about feeding myself, housing myself, and making sure I have adequate health care...I wouldn't work a day in my life. The only people who would are those who are motivated by mercedes, expensive jewlery, luxury yachts, and mansions. I could retire tommorow, settle down, and spend the rest of my waking days spending time with my children.

:confused:

A cartoon?

If that is true, and "theres really no reason for anyone to do anything", then why do people in Europe, parts of Asia and Australia get up every day and work? Why don't they all just lay around and sip Martinis?

GCTMT · Nov 5, 2009

Finally, we get to the root of the problem. Indians/blacks/jews/hispanics/asians recieve inferior care because of our relations with them in history. Conspiracy theorists unite!

I never said anything about blacks, jews, hispanics or asians. I did however point out a fact about Native Americans. Genocide and assimilation are well documented in our history regarding Indians. Look it up.

A conspiracy requires that two or more people break the law, the documented attrocities were "legal". You can look that up too, if you'd like.

SilentMind · Nov 5, 2009

A cartoon?
If that is true, and "theres really no reason for anyone to do anything", then why do people in Europe, parts of Asia and Australia get up every day and work? Why don't they all just lay around and sip Martinis?

Show me a country where the government is willing to provide food/clothing/shelter/alcohol for every single citizen, then i'll show you a majority of the population sitting around sipping martinis.

SilentMind · Nov 5, 2009

I never said anything about blacks, jews, hispanics or asians. I did however point out a fact about Native Americans. Genocide and assimilation are well documented in our history regarding Indians. Look it up.
A conspiracy requires that two or more people break the law, the documented attrocities were "legal". You can look that up too, if you'd like.

Right, we've never wronged jews, hispanics, asians, irish, or anyone else for that matter. America has a history for discrimination? You don't say. If only we were more like the english. That way we could overlook all our cultural crimes because hey...at least we have universal healthcare.

GCTMT · Nov 5, 2009

Right, we've never wronged jews, hispanics, asians, irish, or anyone else for that matter.

I never said that either.

America has a history for discrimination? You don't say. If only we were more like the english.

Yes, we do have a history of discrimination, thank your for admitting it is not a "conspiracy theory". What do the English have to do with this?

That way we could overlook all our cultural crimes because hey...at least we have universal healthcare.

I disagree. Universal health care isn't going to solve everything, and your assumption that it would is ridiculous.

However, we do spend a lot of money on health care (much more than any other country) and our health outcomes are comparable to Canada's (for example). In other words, Canada does it for far less and delivers comparable care.

GCTMT · Nov 5, 2009

Show me a country where the government is willing to provide food/clothing/shelter/alcohol for every single citizen, then i'll show you a majority of the population sitting around sipping martinis.

No country exists and I never made the assertion. You did however, make the assertion that if our government were to implement a Universal Health care policy and provide a strong social safety net (like many other countries) that people would simply "retire" and stop contributing. There is no evidence for that whatsoever.