in aug i will be starting the nursing program at my local college and will be graduating in 2012 ( long time) with my rn. recently i have started to consider entering med school in 2014 at the ripe old age of 30. i was wondering if anyone has considered this and what your reasons may have been for not doing it, other than financial. or is anyone doing something similar and could share their experience.
also since most of you work in a hospital setting, what can you tell me about the doctors you work with? most of my experiences with doctors have not been good. that's one of my reasons for wanting to go all the way. i think if more nurses became doctors we might have happier hospitals.
i'd say if you had the chance to be either a nurse or a physician.. than definitely be a physician. they're the final authority of a patient's plan of care and the are the ones that guide their care. nurses just carry out those orders. i guess it also depends if you want to be the one giving orders, or the one taking them? not to mention the the pay is a lot better...:)
Have you not been reading this entire thread? Nurses do not just carry out physician's orders. Nursing requires a great deal of critical thinking and decision making, which in turn requires a great deal of knowledge!
I know that I have just posted a few replies, but they were along the way as I was reading this entire thread in one sitting.
I think that these nurses do have a right to be offended. I also think they were not being mean to the originial poster. They were merely trying to give her some information on the difference between nursing and medicine. Physicians may be "all the way" in medicine. Nursing isn't along the way because it's built on a a different framework. So if she wants to "go all the way" in the "medical" field, she should be a doctor. If she wanted to "go all the way" in the nursing field, that would not be a physician. I truly believe these nurses wanted her to know the difference because most people don't. Nurses work hard (during school and after), and they are constantly being underestimated. That is frustrating! So they are only trying to educate another person who doesn't yet know what nursing is (as she hasn't started nursing school).
"I don't understand why the idea of becoming a physician after getting experience in nursing is so objectionable to people. It seems that some of the frustrations nurses find with physicians have to do with the lack of understanding and appreciation they may have for the nursing role.
So then, if a student is willing to go through the grueling training of becoming a nurse, work in the field for a few years and gain valuable experience/understanding of what it takes to take care of a patient minute by minute, wouldn't that experience make the person that much better of a physician? To me, physicians and nurses work as part of a team to care for each patient, and I just feel that the more a doctor can understand the nursing role, the better coordination/communication there will be. I say, if you can handle the training and work of both nursing school and med school, then more power to you!
BTW, with regards to egos... I'd say in reading some of the responses that this thread was not without its share of egos. "
I would have to disagree with you not on the grounds of the individual but for the field as a whole. As so many of us are so well aware of their is currently a major deficit in available nurses.... To take valuable spots in nursing school and give them to someone who simply wants to try in on for a bit or even just use it as a bridge is really a waste.
I complety see your logic in helping the younger generation of MDs see what the nursing profession is truely about but I do not think that the the Pros outweigh the Cons in this situation.
Not to mention nursing school is eay too intense for just being an bridge job. Work as a CNA or a MA instead, still get to see all the different postions at there best, less school required, and you do not take up spaces that should be filled by nurses planning to continue in the field....
BTW... as stated in a previous post I am looking into medical school and am a RN... I feel I went about it incorrectly, but then again this is all in my own humble opinion.
I am 31 now and have also pondered lightly the thought of becoming a Dr. But, alas, I don't think I've got the ambition to do another 10 years! As you will learn, probably in your first quarter/semester of nursing school, the nursing role is quite different from the doctor's role. We, as nurses, deal with our patient's response to illness or disease, while doctors deal with the diseases. Nurses are all about people and helping them through whatever is ailing them. That may mean as little as giving someone a Tylenol when they have pain, or as much as making a phone call to the doctor to report abnormal assessment findings and getting him/her to act. For the most part, doctors rely heavily on nurses for their observational powers and knowledge about what they are observing. If nurses didn't engender such trust, the Dr. would be required to make an appearance every time something changed with a patient in order to change treatment or order a lab. But, they don't...and won't...show up every time something changes. They rely on nurses to tell them what's happening, trust what they're saying, and make the change without seeing the patient.
Possibly the hardest thing to accept as a nurse is that you are not present to cure anyone -- you are there to assist them in the healing, and sometimes the dying, process. You are there to comfort them, whether by medication for pain, or by therapuetic communication, or even by as little as a touch. You are also there to watch out for their well-being as a patient advocate, vigilent to observe the "prime directive" to "do no harm" and, more importantly, to not allow anyone else (even a doctor) to do harm.
As you can see, there is a lot to being a nurse. There's much more I could write, but I'll shut up for now. Why don't you wait until you get into school and learn more before you think you may want to do the Dr. thing? You may decide you love the idea of being a nurse and will want nothing more.
First of all, I'd like to reassure you that you are not alone. I have struggled with the decision between nursing and medical school for as long as I can remember. It's interesting that you post this, because I'm in the EXACT same situation. I, too, will graduate nursing school with a BSN in 2012, and an planning on applying to medical school in 2014 when I will also be 30. The similarities in our situation are uncanny.
For as long as I can remember I have wanted to be a physician. I even spent time following my family physician in EIGHTH GRADE because I was so desperate to be involved in medicine. I certainly had the grades, and the recommendations, and went to a well-known university, so getting into medical school was not a hurdle. However, because my husband is an orthopaedic sales rep and spends numerous hours in the OR I am intimately aquainted with the long hours, and stringent lifestyle that comes with becoming a physician, and doesn't end with residency. Having a beautiful 2 year old son, I began to second guess my desire to become a doctor, and wonder exactly how much time with my son I'd be willing to give up. So, I settled on nursing school, because I'd still be able to practice in a clinical setting, without spending 10 years in training at 80+ hours per week. However, sitting in my nursing classes, I suddenly felt frustrated, while hearing my professors chide me about worrying more about the "medical diagnosis" than the "nursing diagnosis." I mean, sure I was aware that flagging a patient as a possible fall risk was an important part of their overall care, but wasn't diagnosing their illness and possibly saving their life more important? It was certainly more interesting to me. So began 3 years of flip-flopping between nursing school and medical school (after I dropped out of nursing school--stupid, stupid choice).
I have spent the last 3 years following as many doctors and nurses as I can, along with PA's and NP's, gathering advice, information, and searching my own soul. I've learned that there are aspects of both careers that appeal to me. I have found that the nurses spend far more time interacting with their patients and do most of the teaching, making complex, difficult disorders much easier for patients to understand. There's nothing I love more than watching a lightbulb go off in a scared patients eyes. However, I've also learned that the more complex procedures are performed by physicians, not to mention that the final decisionmaking is inevitably made by them as well. I do feel that after a certain amount of time as a nurse, I will feel very stifled, and equally frustrated at my inability to do certain procedures, or make certain decisions that I am sure will help my patient.
I definitely don't consider nursing to be any "less" of a profession than medicine, but I do feel like there are a lot more barriers in terms of how high up the ladder one can climb, and the amount of autonomy permitted in practice. And, in the interest of complete honesty, the "MD" title does appeal to me, in a completely egotistical way. After all of my research, and soul searching, I've decided to garner the best of both worlds. I will get my Bachelor's degree in nursing, and continue on to medical school, when my son is much older and my absence will be less of a burden on him.
I have to admit, I've noticed a fair share of animosity on the part of fellow nursing students, as well as among RN's, when they find out my intended plans, and it's extremely frustrating. They seem to view it as a betrayal, completely convinced that my decision is implying that nursing just isn't "good enough," or that they aren't "smart enough," etc. And I have to admit that I''m just absolutely baffled by that. In my own personal experience, everyone I've met (including the majority of the physicians I've shadowed and interviewed) reveres nurses as not only an integral part of the health care team, but as the backbone of that team. When I tell people I'm going to nursing school, they seem impressed, and often come to me with medical questions, and general information. I've never been made to feel that my decision to follow nursing before medical school is somehow inferior, or "not good enough," and to be quite honest, I feel like a lot of the negativity towards nurses comes from nurses themselves.
Anyway, this got to be extremely long, but I just wanted to share my experiences with you, and to let you know you are not alone on this long road you travel. If you need any help and support, feel free to private message me.
I can't for the life of me figure out why someone who is planning on attending med school would take nursing as a major. Nursing is notoriously difficult. You can go to med school as a psych/sociology major. The LAST major I'd pick to get into med school is a tough one like nursing. I'd want my gpa to be as high as possible!
Okay, I'm SURE I'll get flamed for this, but I just can't keep it in. As someone who did a year of nursing school, before going the med school route (and then changing her mind again) I have to disagree that nursing is much harder than the "average pre-med major." I had a MUCH easier time in pharmacology, fundamentals of nursing, physiology and clinicals than I did in organic chemistry, pathophysiology, physics, and my other upper level biology major courses. Sure, one CAN get into medical school with a sociology degree, but typically the most popular pre-med majors are Biology and Chemistry which I found a LOT more difficult than nursing school.
Also, to offer further insight on why one would choose nursing as a pre-med major, for non-traditional students, the ability to practice a form of medicine before entering medical school, as well as the idea of having a "back-up plan," is incredibly appealing. I mean, as a mother I know that I probably won't be ready to enter medical school immediately after finishing my bachelor's degree. With nursing, I can still be in the hospital providing care to patients, making a good living in the interim. And, heaven forbid, if a person didn't get accepted to medical school, there's not much a person can do with a bachelor's degree in biology or chemistry, short of teaching, which isn't on my short list of desirable careers. Nursing provides me a viable safety net on my journey. And it won't make me any less of a nurse, and since I plan to put the skills I learn in nursing school to good use, long after I become a physician, I also don't view it as "taking up a spot," in school.
I mean, sure I was aware that flagging a patient as a possible fall risk was an important part of their overall care, but wasn't diagnosing their illness and possibly saving their life more important?
Just as an aside, in certain patient populations a fall WILL kill a patient and I'm not talking about a head injury. If you prevent a fall, you will save a life by preventing the the chain reaction of illness that could eventually kill them as a result(fx hip-->pneumonia-->death) for example. It happens all the time. I know prevention isn't as exciting as diagnosis but the person in the hospital bed might think differently.
I have to admit, I've noticed a fair share of animosity on the part of fellow nursing students, as well as among RN's, when they find out my intended plans, and it's extremely frustrating. They seem to view it as a betrayal, completely convinced that my decision is implying that nursing just isn't "good enough.
Well it isn't, at least not for you. You stated as much when you talked about how stifled you imagine you will feel as a nurse, your need for the title of MD and your insistence on concentrating on the medical diagnosis instead of nursing in class. And hey, if nursing doesn't appeal to you, that's o-k-a-y. But you need to be more sensitive to how you appear to your fellow students and your possibly colleagues instead of claiming that you just don't understand.
And it won't make me any less of a nurse, and since I plan to put the skills I learn in nursing school to good use, long after I become a physician, I also don't view it as "taking up a spot," in school.
You've already admitted that you are going to be frustrated as a nurse because of the limitations on autonomy, your desire to diagnose instead of focus on prevention and treatment of symptoms and I have no idea what nursing skills you will use as a physician. It's a whole 'nother ball of wax. So yes, you are "taking up a spot."
However I do understand your conflict about your need to be with your son. I too have made sacrifices in my career because of my commitment to my children. It does not get easier as they get older however; hopefully you will be able to do what you REALLY want to do without compromising your family time. You don't get that time back with them and you don't get that time back for yourself either.
Specializes in Trauma,ER,CCU/OHU/Nsg Ed/Nsg Research.
I also don't view it as "taking up a spot," in school.
Personally, I have no problem with anyone going to med school if that is what you desire. I think it's great, and would encourage anyone to follow their dreams. But, besides the fact that nursing school is not the best route to go for pre-med for all the reasons already listed (speak with some med students- they'll tell you the same thing), you are taking a spot from some other deserving hopeful, who does want to become a nurse, and who will be there to help fill the gaps in the critical nursing shortage we have today.
One of the factors in the shortage is that there are not enough educators to teach in nursing, thus we don't have enough students in the pool. Nursing school slots are spread thin, and many of us who are a part of the profession find it disagreeable that anyone would knowingly take one of those precious slots as a stepping stone into any other profession. Some of us would rather see those slots be taken by someone who intends to be a nurse.
I personally would find it even more disagreeable if those of you who are doing this are receiving federal or state financial aid funding, grants, or scholarships that are specifically set aside for nursing students to help with the shortage. I hope no one here is doing that.
If I understand things correctly from my observations as an employee in a teaching hospital where I see many med students, nursing students, ARNP, etc...In the simplest terms doctors are trained to diagnose and treat disease and nurses are trained to assist patients and their families in recognizing and overcoming all of the many obstacles that may interfere with that process...The two professions compliment each other nicely but I don't necessarily see one being a stepping stone to another unless a practioner of one were to decide, after time in the field, that they'd really prefer to be practicing in the other...
Honestly, those who have questions about going from nursing to medicine...RN to MD/DO, should go to studentdoctor.net There you will find actual people who have gone that route, opinions on nursing students in medical school (not always positive), and the reality of nursing school vs pre-med.
BTW I go there because they have a midlevel practitioner forum and I find the discussions between NPs, CNS, PA interesting. I am only starting RN this fall but have plans.....
As far as "taking a spot" yes, you are taking a spot if you intend to go straight into medicine and use the BSN as a stepping stone. Be honest. BUT any of us in NS could get out into the real world and have a change of heart and go back to school for business, computer, or medicine...there's no guarantee that all nursing students will remain in nursing. IMHO, it's not the best starting point if you really want to be a doctor.
This is a reply to the OP. I work with an excellent anesthesiologist. Her patients do well and she is a joy to work with. She once told me that she was a nurse before she decided to go to nursing school. I think she is in some ways a better physician than some (perhaps due to her nursing background) because she views the patient as a whole entity and not just an airway that needs to be managed.
I would suggest you look at what doctors do and decide if that is what you want. They work much longer hours and have much more call than most nurses. Oh, there might be an exception here and there but my dad was a doctor and I grew up with his schedule. He visited his patients in the hospital twice a day, 7 days a week. During the week he left home about 6am to make rounds before opening his office. When the office closed in the afternoon he'd come home for a bite and then head to the hospital for evening rounds and dictation. He usually got home from that about 9pm and then read his medical journals for an hour or more to stay up to date. The evening and night hours were often interrupted by calls from the hospital.
I love the luxury of working 3 days a week and not getting called at home unless I am on call, and that's only twice a month in my department. Good luck and I hope you find your niche doing something you love.
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NFB2008
134 Posts
Have you not been reading this entire thread? Nurses do not just carry out physician's orders. Nursing requires a great deal of critical thinking and decision making, which in turn requires a great deal of knowledge!