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Getting it in writing

NP   (5,934 Views | 21 Replies)

Alicia777 specializes in Surgery.

6,156 Profile Views; 278 Posts

I have now been "fooled" twice by potential employers. I get to the third round of interviews for my first NP job and then either HR and or the Nurse manager has told me that they will not be interviewing anyone else for the position, or they think i'd be a great fit because of this that and the other etc. Then they ask for my references/nurse manager name and information. I've naively bought it, twice, and have given my references and notified my manager at my RN job that i'd be taking an NP position. Then a week or so passes, I get curious what is taking so long, and contact the HR person who tells me they haven't checked references but instead are opening up the position to others more qualified. Not only am I not getting the job, but I'm then backpeddling appologizing to my boss. Ughhhhh.

What should I be doing next time? Getting the offer in writing before I agree to give my contacts? Do I tell the next HR/manager why I need it in writing and my history? Anyone with similar experiences?

Thanks

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151 Posts; 4,787 Profile Views

It seems odd that everything is going well until they get to the references, then it all goes south. Is it possible that one of your references is telling them something that makes them back away? I know they're telling you that they "haven't checked references", but perhaps they actually ARE checking them and they are trying to avoid being caught in the middle of a potentially nasty legal issue.

I saw a similar situation once where a nurse was applying to grad schools for an MSN program in Nursing Administration, and using a charge nurse on her floor as a reference. It turned out that this individual was being all nice and supportive to her face, but was giving her negative references. She dropped that reference, got a former manager to recommend her and was accepted to all of the next three schools she applied to. She then sailed through her MSN program with a very high GPA at a very competitive school. Later it occurred to her that the charge nurse probably saw her as competition for a nurse manager position that was expected to open. Sometimes you just don't know who your friends are.

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PulselessNine has 3 years experience.

76 Posts; 4,204 Profile Views

As a headhunter (previous career) there is something to do differently.

1. Don't tell your manager yet. You don't have a job until they tell you, "we will pay you xxxx to be xxxx. We would like you to start on xxxx." Wait until that point to tell your manager. All of the other rhetoric is just that, rhetoric.

2. Talk to people you want to give as references. Ask them what they will say. Get a neutral third party to call them and conduct a reference check on you to see what they say and make sure you are being represented well. If not, change references without confronting the negative reference. Keep your secrets or you will be burned. This is business and you will need to put on your thick skin and suck it up if you aren't getting the positive reference.

3. Contact a healthcare/nurse recruiter to be represented in a search. Follow their advice, be honest with them, and expect complete candor.

Good luck.

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PulselessNine has 3 years experience.

76 Posts; 4,204 Profile Views

Remember, just because they aren't interviewing anyone else (new) does not mean you don't have competition like someone they already spoke to and are conducting reference checks on at the same time.

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Alicia777 specializes in Surgery.

278 Posts; 6,156 Profile Views

It seems odd that everything is going well until they get to the references, then it all goes south. Is it possible that one of your references is telling them something that makes them back away? I know they're telling you that they "haven't checked references", but perhaps they actually ARE checking them and they are trying to avoid being caught in the middle of a potentially nasty legal issue.

I saw a similar situation once where a nurse was applying to grad schools for an MSN program in Nursing Administration, and using a charge nurse on her floor as a reference. It turned out that this individual was being all nice and supportive to her face, but was giving her negative references. She dropped that reference, got a former manager to recommend her and was accepted to all of the next three schools she applied to. She then sailed through her MSN program with a very high GPA at a very competitive school. Later it occurred to her that the charge nurse probably saw her as competition for a nurse manager position that was expected to open. Sometimes you just don't know who your friends are.

Harry, in neither episode was the nurse manager or my references contacted, unless they're not being honest with me but I feel well-liked by my managers and have chosen my other references carefully.

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292 Posts; 5,498 Profile Views

Weird things happen in the job hunting. I agree with pulseless. Until you have it in writing don't say a word to your manager. In fact I will go even further-don't say a word to anyone.

I had a friend who was job hunting (in the medical field but not nursing) who interviewed for a very prestigious position. The next day someone who was on the search committee pulled him aside to privately congratulate him on the position. He never got a call offering him the job. It turned out that our department head (who was not a reference because he took it personally when someone was job hunting) had heard through the grapevine that he had interviewed for the job. He cold called the head of the search committee and told him that he shouldn't hire my friend (but amazingly he promoted my friend to management less than a month later so it clearly wasn't the guys work).

Keep your cards close to your chest and only let people in on a need to know basis. It sucks because everyone should be happy for you as you progress through your career path but some people as so insecure they will stab you in the back while smiling to your face. Ultimately you are the only person on your side 100 percent of the time.

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Alicia777 specializes in Surgery.

278 Posts; 6,156 Profile Views

So what's my response when I'm asked for my references being that it always includes current boss, what do I tell her; that they MAY want to hire me?

Edited by Alicia777

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PulselessNine has 3 years experience.

76 Posts; 4,204 Profile Views

So what's my response when I'm asked for my references being that it always includes current boss, what do I tell her; that they MAY want to hire me?

Clear your references before you give them.

You choose your references and you don't have to give your current boss as a reference.

You don't have to tell your boss anything. Of course they MAY want to hire you if they are checking references. For what it's worth I have never given my current employer as a reference and I think it is wise not to unless the new position is a complete change of career.

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Alicia777 specializes in Surgery.

278 Posts; 6,156 Profile Views

Clear your references before you give them.

You choose your references and you don't have to give your current boss as a reference.

You don't have to tell your boss anything. Of course they MAY want to hire you if they are checking references. For what it's worth I have never given my current employer as a reference and I think it is wise not to unless the new position is a complete change of career.

I wish it were an option but one required current boss and the other just asked but I suppose I could have declined until the actual offer.

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7 Posts; 624 Profile Views

How can you refuse to provide references and expect to get an offer?

The better way should be to make sure your references will be positive.

Alicia777 do you happen to know those NP positions are w2 employee or contractor?

I assume all those are at hospital, am I right?

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Alicia777 specializes in Surgery.

278 Posts; 6,156 Profile Views

How can you refuse to provide references and expect to get an offer?

The better way should be to make sure your references will be positive.

Alicia777 do you happen to know those NP positions are w2 employee or contractor?

I assume all those are at hospital, am I right?

I agree, I can't refuse a request for references. That's just shady. The positions were both at hospitals. Yes, not a contractor position. On the first occasion I needed 5 references, 2 of whom had to be current or former bosses and considering I have been at my current RN position for over 7 yrs, I gave two of my managers. The other 3 people I'm friendly with and they are not nurses, so not sure why they would intentionally say bad things. The second job didn't check references.

I think what I will do, since I am about to interview for a brand new position is when the time comes I'll give my references and give my manager a heads up about the referral call but not give any notice of resignation. If they call, they call, then I can have a discussion with her. She's known it's been a possibility anyways.

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82 Posts; 3,202 Profile Views

Harry, in neither episode was the nurse manager or my references contacted, unless they're not being honest with me but I feel well-liked by my managers and have chosen my other references carefully.

Less than half of the time I have been asked to be someone's reference, has anyone called. One time I was sent a computer survey. One time I received a phone call from a frustrated sounding guy who I felt needed a therapy session as much as info on my former co-worker. In both cases they did get the jobs.

My current employer did a huge background check. I had a right to a copy so I opted to be sent one. It showed how the references had answered. I was a bit taken aback by the "could improve by" responses. Of all the things I think I could improvement at... didn't match their answers at all.

If anyone asks me to give a reference and I can't give them a great reference, then I decline. Now I know not everyone feels that way. It might be important to ask folks what they might say or do the sneaky faux reference checker phone call.

Edited by SunDazed
typo, meaning

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