Getting to know the LE world

Originally Posted by ForensicMI

To KC4NSICRN

Sorry I didn't see your post until now,

I'm a current pre-nursing student. Once I get into the nursing program through my college, I plan on working in the ER for two years or so. I've been in contact with a Forensics Nurse thanks to finding out through local law enforcement agencies. I went to a seminar of hers and learned a lot of information. In my state, the only way to get certification is through conferences that state police, medical examiners, medical personnel and others put on. I feel I have knowledge on HOW to get my certification as a Forensic Nurse, not necessarily evidence collection, testimony, etc. Although, I do know that everyday is not the same and ever case is different. It never is routine, just like a traffic stop. (Misunderstanding in my writing, sorry).

Did you know that when a victim of shooting comes into the ED and resuscitation is unsuccessful, that body is now a crime scene and should be treated as such? Yes. Many things such as this statement were covered in the conference/seminar that I attended.

While I am only a pre-nursing student, I'm trying to get as much experience in this career that I will be pursuing upon getting my RN license. I've done ride alongs, with those who have knowledge in evidence collection. I am so happy that I am allowed to be able to be able to ask questions and actually gain the experience right in front of my eyes. They thought that I asked good questions. One even showed me the aftermath of a crime scene and I thought it was very interesting. It intrigued me so much, that I kept asking questions about certain things that I saw. The officer gladly answered all my questions.

Take a tour of the coroner's office: This is something that I plan on doing very soon. I've in contact with who I need to be in contact with.

Take SANE training: I plan on getting my Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner training once I get my RN license.

Thanks for your input on my post. It's much appreciated. I wish there was a way to job shadow a Forensic Nurse, but due to the nature of the career, it's not allowed.

Re: Job shadowing

When I was working at a trauma center as a forensic nurse, I had students shadow me on the job. It was a great learning experience for them as I went about the normal activities of my day. Both of us learned!

One day, we had a great learning experience as an in custody death came into our ER as a code allegedly from a diabetic episode. Oh, the learning that took place that day! While I in no way mean to sound disrespectful, here you have a patient who came to us with CPR in progress, the code was unsuccessful. So in a teaching hospital, you are presented with a learning opportunity, and we should take this opportunity to learn something that might help another. Do you agree?

With my shadow student and the other ER nurses close by and the curtains to the code cube closed for privacy, an inspection of the body was undertaken. We found ligature marks around her ankles! Ok, what does this tell you? Was she tied to the bed in the prison infirmary? Were these marks from ankle shackles?

It is not up to us to say how it happened, just to observe that these marks are present. We discussed the possibilities and it was a learning experience for everyone, from the observation of evidence, to the documentation in the nursing notes. We were able to correctly report this to the coroner and the investigation had an element to it that would have been lacking if we had not noted this important observation.

This, then led to looking into a practice that had been in place for years at our facility, the tying of hands and feet together prior to placing the body in the morgue bag. Formerly, we had used only shrouds to perform our post mortem care and the tying of extremities was used to create a smaller package to enshroud. With the purchase and use of the zippered morgue bags, we no longer needed to use the tying method, which by itself can steer an in-custody death investigation in a whole new mistaken direction.

Thus, I began the process of changing the policy on post mortem care and removed the gauze ties from the morgue packs altogether. The change in policy required in servicing of all units, therefore requiring my services as the forensic nurse even more.

If you place what I have just written into an algorithm, you can see the impact that having a forensic nurse in house can make a difference and the education and better outcomes that can follow.

What do you think?

I think you are on the right track with the experiences you are getting with LE! In fact, I'm kind of wishing I was there! Good luck and let us know how you progress.

I would like to expound(who me? expound? lol, yes, me) on something I was writing about above, the case of the in-custody death with ligature marks around her ankles. As you may realize, forensic nurses are there to document what we see in that situation. In-custody deaths are mandatory coroner's cases, and thus must be reported as well as your observations of the ligatures. Why are these automatic coroner's cases? one reason is to protect the rights of the prisoner but another is to protect the facility. Finding the truth is what matters:

Did the patient have these ligature marks when she entered the jail?

OR did they occur because the jail restarined her?

I just wanted to point out the two possible opposing causes.

To KC4NSICRN

Sorry I didn't see your post until now,

I'm a current pre-nursing student. Once I get into the nursing program through my college, I plan on working in the ER for two years or so. I've been in contact with a Forensics Nurse thanks to finding out through local law enforcement agencies. I went to a seminar of hers and learned a lot of information. In my state, the only way to get certification is through conferences that state police, medical examiners, medical personnel and others put on. I feel I have knowledge on HOW to get my certification as a Forensic Nurse, not necessarily evidence collection, testimony, etc. Although, I do know that everyday is not the same and ever case is different. It never is routine, just like a traffic stop. (Misunderstanding in my writing, sorry).

Did you know that when a victim of shooting comes into the ED and resuscitation is unsuccessful, that body is now a crime scene and should be treated as such? Yes. Many things such as this statement were covered in the conference/seminar that I attended.

While I am only a pre-nursing student, I'm trying to get as much experience in this career that I will be pursuing upon getting my RN license. I've done ride alongs, with those who have knowledge in evidence collection. I am so happy that I am allowed to be able to be able to ask questions and actually gain the experience right in front of my eyes. They thought that I asked good questions. One even showed me the aftermath of a crime scene and I thought it was very interesting. It intrigued me so much, that I kept asking questions about certain things that I saw. The officer gladly answered all my questions.

Take a tour of the coroner's office: This is something that I plan on doing very soon. I've in contact with who I need to be in contact with.

Take SANE training: I plan on getting my Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner training once I get my RN license.

Thanks for your input on my post. It's much appreciated. I wish there was a way to job shadow a Forensic Nurse, but due to the nature of the career, it's not allowed.

Hi Forensic MI-

One way that you may be able to "shadow" a forensic nurse might be through your local Rape Crisis Counseling Center. I volunteered as a Rape Crisis Advocate (in another life when I was a Psychology student) for awhile and was able to learn alot about the various responsibilities of a SANE (Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner) by supporting the survivor of rape through the rape kit. If this is something your're interested in, I can give you more information about my role as a Rape Crisis Advocate...just PM me!

GL in school!

Hello wsuchic1

I never considered going to the Rape Crisis Counseling Center. Perhaps I shall, because training goes on at the place once a year that I'm aware of.

PM'ing you now!

Thanks for your response.

Hello wsuchic1

If you could send me a PM, as I currently don't have the ability to do so yet (newly member). Thank you!

Hi Forensic MI-

I just sent you a PM to tell you more about my experience as a Rape Crisis Advocate.