Cheater Cheater Pumpkin Eater

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The pumpkin part has nothing to do with this post...but the cheating part does. I've been taking A&P this semester, and I have seen other students cheating during several of the exams. I feel saddened and disturbed that these people may well be the health professionals of tomorrow. It's like they just don't care; they only want a passing grade with a minimum of effort...Even if you never need to know anything about the parasympathetic pathway ever again, I wonder where else these students may try to cut corners down the road. Do they ever get caught or do they just slide by forever?

On a related note...Before class yesterday, a fellow student was saying how she didn't have to get a good grade on yesterday's exam because she could fail it and still get a C, which is passing. But then she was saying how she wants to go CRNA school down the road, and based on what I've read here about CRNA admissions, mediocre grades even in pre-reqs may not cut it. But that's not really my point. My real point is that I am working my butt off and then there are these people who flaunt their half-assedness. Even when I was getting my first degree as a youngun' I didn't have that who-cares attitude.

But on the other hand, I've come across a lot of students who do work hard and care. Hopefully these will be the people I'll be working with in the future!

Okay, I know this sounds snotty but I practice what I preach. I would tell every teacher and person of authority I could. I have ratted out a fellow classmate for cheating myself. She was not punished for that specific incident because the faculty only had my word against hers but they did make it impossible for her to continue cheating and now she has failed out. I am not a vindictive person but I take this seriously because I bust my tail to make good grades and I dont want anyone else to have it that easy. I also cant stand the thought that she might make it through the program and pass the boards by some miracle and end up caring for a member of my family. I feel really close to most of my classmates but there are a few that I wouldn't trust to medicate my cat!!

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One thing I have learned about those who cheat is that eventually it will catch up to them. Don't worry about that person treating a patient, because they will probably never get there. Worry about yourself, and you will be much happier.

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peaceful 2100 SAID:

"...What some of them will end up doing is taking a test-review course so they can better their chances of passing the nclex... "

Sorry a review class is not cheating.

Peasful SAID:

"...and they will keep taking it and taking it and taking it till they pass if they truly want to...."

Sounds motivated. They're studying.

peasful2100 SAID:

"....One instructor told us a student a few years back took the NCLEX five times and he finally passed it and he was one of the students that should have been weeded out the first few weeks of the program. She said that the last she heard he only made it is first year of nursing and then decided not to do it anymore."

I don't know were you are but here the NCLEX can only be taken 3 times. Then you MUST go back to school to be eligible to take it again.

Also sounds like this person did eventually weed out.

I don't have any good answer. Some people snitch. I don't know if this is an effective stratagy. I am just an observer of life. The way I see it eventually karma gets you. I don't know if I am right about this, just seems that way to me. :o

I wonder what this teacher, who told the story, did or did not do. I think she must have had some power to stop this person. If a teach can't who can.:stone

It was interesting as I was listening to two nurses who have had thier license a couple of years. They were complaining about thier school not having an NCLEX review. They claimed you learn content in school but still can't pass NCLEX. They complain how hard school was. Thier school has a 30 % fail rate. Then one said she tool an NCLEX review class at another school and it did not help. They cited review books the teachers could have used and were "very good" they felt that a part of the program should have been dedicated to this. I just listened.

The students should (my opinion) have been useing these review books all allong and shouldnt need a teacher to lead them to or force them to do this.

They said they wanted a NCLEX specific review. Yet, when one went to such a review said it did not help. I think there is something inherently wrong here.

Don't get on me. I graduated last year. I took the NCLEX 3 days after getting my authorization to test letter. I passed first time. I worked with a NCLEX review book all through the course. I did not have anything spoon fed or told to get a review book. Learning is work. :eek: I don't like it either.

Everyone knows the boards have to be passed. Why wait to prepare or have someone do it for you?

Sorry for going off topic just had to get this off my chest. I realize that I am prbably preacing to the choir. (happened yesterday);)

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originally posted by agnus

the students should (my opinion) have been useing these review books all allong and shouldnt need a teacher to lead them to or force them to do this.

they said they wanted a nclex specific review. yet, when one went to such a review said it did not help. i think there is something inherently wrong here.

don't get on me. i graduated last year. i took the nclex 3 days after getting my authorization to test letter. i passed first time. i worked with a nclex review book all through the course. i did not have anything spoon fed or told to get a review book. learning is work. :eek: i don't like it either.

everyone knows the boards have to be passed. why wait to prepare or have someone do it for you?

sorry for going off topic just had to get this off my chest. i realize that i am prbably preacing to the choir. (happened yesterday);)

agnus, i really agree with you about the review books, i got a couple a few months ago and use then as an adjunct to my regular studying. most of the class thought i was crazy, doing "extra" studying, but after the final (i got a 95%) then a bunch of them were all over me about which books i had used. lol i had even printed out a list of current nclex review books and had it posted in the classroom, now they are looking at the list!!!! the two students that failed in second level that would have graduated last friday blamed the instructors....guess they wanted that spoon feeding you talked about.

back to the cheating part...i'm not sure what i would do.....but i tend to think if i had solid proof...i would probably turn them in...only because if they are taking shortcuts now....what kind of shortcuts will they take once they are in practice.:o

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originally posted by studentsandra

what kind of shortcuts will they take once they are in practice.:o

a very scary thought.:stone

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Originally posted by snbrcc

Okay, I know this sounds snotty but I practice what I preach. I would tell every teacher and person of authority I could. I have ratted out a fellow classmate for cheating myself. She was not punished for that specific incident because the faculty only had my word against hers but they did make it impossible for her to continue cheating and now she has failed out. I am not a vindictive person but I take this seriously because I bust my tail to make good grades and I dont want anyone else to have it that easy. I also cant stand the thought that she might make it through the program and pass the boards by some miracle and end up caring for a member of my family. I feel really close to most of my classmates but there are a few that I wouldn't trust to medicate my cat!!

I like this response best. I'm sorry, but the cheaters need to be nailed. Period. People's lives are in your hands when you're a nurse. Lord knows we have enough idiots already out there in practice, probably because they cheated their way through school and no one busted them.

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Agnus, well the teacher who told us said it happened back in the early 90's. Their has been some teachers who tried to get some students kicked out but for some stupid reason it did not work. I tell you I don't like my school because my school is all about the money. Like I said before the tuition alone is about $15,000.00. It is a private BSN school. IF I known before I started nursing school at the school is at now how my school is now I would defintely choose another school. Right now I do not recommend my nursing school. They have some serious flaws and need to make some serious, serious changes. Including a few changes in the faculty. AT my school some of the faculty will give in if you are a rear end kisser and act like a huge cry baby. One girl has had an extension on every single one of her papers and projects since we have been in nursing school and she uses the same old sob story everytime about how her life is such a mess and she is a single mother with 2 kids and has to work almost full-time, go to school full-time and she tries to make people pity her and feel sorry for her. IT is horrible. Some people who cheated did not make it last fall but they allowed these people to stay and they will be continuing the program in August for fall and they will re-do the semester they messed up on. They did not have nursing courses this spring since they were not allowed to continue but took other courses. I sure hope they straightened up their act.

I also have nursing review books as well. I have Kaplans, Sanders, Lippincott, Mosby's. I did really good in the class and got a 99.99 on the HESI only 3 people past and like Sandra everyone was asking me for the names of my NCLEX books even a couple of the instructor's was curious. I am also looking into buy 2 more. No one at my school told me to get review books either. Some really do expect to be spoon fed and that is sad. One teacher decided to give a review course before test over her sections even though she had already given lectures over the stuff and this teacher told everyone exactly what to study she did not give out questions but if you studied exactly what she told you then you should have gotten a 100% on the test. So some students went to other faculty asking them to do the same thing. Now, that is unrealstic and really not necessary. You should be able to study for the test in a group or on your own without a teacher telling you exactly what to study. If that happened then you would never study everything in the lecture and therefore when it comes time to the NCLEX you are in major trouble.

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I sit here and wonder...

How in Great googley moogley can any of the Diseases and Disorders, interventions and tests and Treatments and meds make ANY SENSE AT ALL TO THESE PEOPLE WITHOUT A GOOD KNOWLEDGE BASE OF A&P????!!!!!

I tend to do really well with it and it has totally saved my but

How can they pass boards? I dont get it at all.........

as far as cheaters, well, I feel like its the instructors job to evaluate each student and determine those kinds of things.

In my class, if you are absent the day of a test, you get a different test when you return to class. this has upset me from day one, if you cant trust me to take a test honestly and to the best of my ability, how can you trust me with a licence?

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Peaceful:

I have some of the same problems with my program. There is one student in particular who has been sleeping with the psychology prof (yuck), and all she has to do is bat her eyes and cry some fake tears and every single prof at the college gives her an extension on her papers.... in our A&P II class she went to our prof and cried about how she couldn't get into the nursing program if she didn't pass and she was so stressed yada yada yada... and she had TWO EXTRA MONTHS to take the final.

Totally irritating.

A lot of these students are perpetually on the verge of failing, and then they'll dispute every question on the exam to try and get extra points to stay above that 75 cut off point.

In my program, though, next semester is the weeding out semester. They lost 20 students this past year in it. It is all abnormal physiology: renal failure, high risk OB, transplants, arrhythmias, etc., and they say if you don't have a good knowledge of A&P then you're pretty much sunk.

I would never hope that someone would fail, but if it means they'll go back and really study and learn something, maybe it would be worth it. Of course, if they have the low ethical and moral standards required for cheating, one can only wonder what they will do as a practicing nurse.

Sheesh.

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